Best team

Peak team. Should've been the main characters.

Reminder that JNR alone were better teammates for Ruby than WBY. Add Pyrrha into that mix and Ruby would have fucked off from her old team permanently.

They deserved so much better

>het couple Team >Gets broken up >The only canon het couple of the main characters also breaks up What the FUCK did MKEK mean by this?

>>1935 Liberalism?

>>1935 No straight ships allowed. All the women are strong, independent, don't-need-no-men and are lesbians and all men are either goofy sidekicks at best or comically evil at worst. It's a miracle JNPR isn't made even worse by them.

Postan to support best team

>>1935 Crwby are hacks, more news at 1

JNPR is objectively the best team in the show. Also is love for the other Juniper allowed? Talking about Jaune's noble steed. DO you guys think Pyrrha and Nora would have loved Juniper?

>>2307 >Also is love for the other Juniper allowed? I don't see why not? As long as the character is related to JNPR in some way it should be allowed. >DO you guys think Pyrrha and Nora would have loved Juniper? Yes they would, which is a crime on MKEK's end when they made Juniper stay in EA.

>>2308 True. It should also be noted that Jaune technically knew Juniper longer than he knew his own team. She was his companion for 20yrs. When I think about how Juniper could have been Jaune's mount/team mascot I just feel robbed all over again. Do the writers hate us? Is that why they never let us have nice things?

gonna be real guys, i think jaune should've died instead of pyrrha

>>2318 Gonna be real guys, I think no one should have died because every single canon character death in RWBY has been pointless to the plot.

>>2320 >every single canon character death in RWBY has been pointless to the plot. Hard disagree. The deaths have largely been important to the plot progression. I will agree that some of the later deaths like Adam's were poorly done though. >>2318 >jaune should have died instead! LOL no.

>>2321 >The deaths have largely been important to the plot progression Excepting villain deaths, which have their own issues, you've got: >Penny Irrelevant death in V3 that got glossed over as soon as the viewers' shock wore off. Technically relevant in that it began the Fall, but could've been substituted by any atrocity committed on any other student. Never particularly mattered. She returned anyway so it could've easily been a "simple" maiming or other such thing to take her out of action. Ruby remembers her exactly twice from V4-V6 and no one else does. 2nd death was, frankly, so absurd I can't take it seriously. So many lost opportunities it's not even funny. How to mishandle a character 101 >Ozpin Happened off-screen. Technically the most plot relevant death since his death enabled the climax of V3, but due to its off screen nature it loses all weight. Also made irrelevant by Ozpin returning via Oscar. Could've simply been replaced with Ozpin getting his ass kicked instead of outright dying, thereby obviating the need for Oscar as a character and the mind-merging subplot as a whole (which would probably tighten things up given how often Oscar gets glossed over as well). >Pyrrha Discussions about the narrative failings of her death have been done to death (heh), from poor execution for non-Jaune characters to opportunity cost of missing out on Pyrrhangst and Angstkos. I won't bother to go over them here, but narratively speaking Pyrrha's death is strictly unnecessary. Since the SEW's work off a need/desire to protect, Ruby could've arrived 2 seconds earlier, seen Pyrrha mortally wounded, and blasted Cinder with Silver Eyes before she could kill Pyrrha and all the narrative necessity of Pyrrha's death is fulfilled while leaving open aftermath plotlines. Mostly irrelevant to the plot, despite being very relevant to Jaune's character (who is himself largely plot irrelevant despite being an important deuteragonist) >Clover Like Pyrrha, his death was important for Qrow's character but was largely plot irrelevant. The Ace Ops were already arrayed against RWBY et al and would've remained such even if Clover remained alive or was simply wounded etc. Harriet did some typical hothead shit but honestly, she was just as crazy before Clover's death and probably would've been just as eager to nuke Mantle. It's implied that Harriet has been that way since the loss of Tortuga before we meet the Ace Ops for the first time. In any case, Clover's death could've been replaced with maiming etc as well, and could've led to a plotline where Qrow has to choose between helping him recover or helping RWBY et al immediately. Opportunity cost is high. >Vine His death was just a reset button for a dumb "nuke Mantle" plot that ultimately didn't matter anyway since Atlas was about to crash into Mantle regardless. Very pointless. >Ironwood He got written into the villain corner so I'll ignore him, but his death may or may not be plot relevant yet. We'll have to wait until V10 to see the full effects it has on his previous subordinates, Winter, etc. I don't have high hopes. If the death is not STRICTLY NECESSARY for plot progression then it should probably be avoided EXCEPT in works where the cheapness of life is one of the themes. For a heavily individualistic work like RWBY, that very much is not (or shouldn't be) among the themes of the show. A character death can both be impactful for the audience while also not being plot relevant. Villain deaths are "cheaper" in that it's not as much an emotional shock to the audience when they die, so I didn't bother to go over them with this, but losing Roman in particular was a massive waste. Adam's death was pretty plot irrelevant except for Blake's/Yang's romance thing, agreed.

>>2348 >Irrelevant death in V3 that got glossed over No, not really. It was basically the starting point for the entire fall of Beacon causing panic, fear and hatred by revealing her as a robot and by killing her on live TV, by the hands of a famous 'champion' to boot. >could've been substituted by any atrocity committed on any other student. No, that's not how story telling works. Killing off mooks doesn't have the emotional impact a more known character does, it's why mooks exist to get beaten up in droves. It's also important because of the narrative of "Atlas technology dominating everyone". >She returned anyway In story nobody knows that was possible and out of story too, people didn't know Penny would be back. Some fans predicted it, but until it happened in V7 it was nothing more than fanon at best. >it could've easily been a "simple" maiming or other such thing to take her out of action. That also happens; Yang, and in-story, with the exclusion of a few people, the general public thinks Yang did similar to Mercury. Not the same effect, even if it did serve to raise negativity levels. >Ruby remembers her exactly twice from V4-V6 and no one else does. She was primarily Ruby's friend. Atlas saw her as an asset, a war-machine. Yang is busy lounging around with her prosthesis and mommy issues, Blake is being shitty kitty, and all of them barely had a connection to her. Ruby does. Her not constantly talking about it isn't indicative of shit. She doesn't bring up Pyrrha that much either, not because it hasn't had an effect, but characters expositing and regurgitating summaries of what happened months ago is poor writing. > 2nd death was, frankly, so absurd I can't take it seriously. I agree on that point, it's why I said some of the later deaths (Adam, Penny are best examples) were dumb and pointless, but I disagree with "all". >Happened off-screen. And it was impactful, since he's the example of a top-tier Huntsman and leading figure. Him dying is impactful because we don't learn of his reincarnation until later in V4 and even then it's a mystery that has its own serious ramifications. >Discussions about the narrative failings of her death have been done to death Yeah and the arguments against it pretty much boil down to excuses for "I want Pyrrha!". Narratively speaking her death makes sense, it was stupid, but a stupid decision by a character =/= the writing necessarily being bad or pointless so long as it is consistent with their characterization. As I pointed out earlier, this is part of Pyrrha's character flaw an adherence to duty and 'destiny' to a literal fault. Nobody had to die if people look at it from a third-person perspective, but the characters aren't looking at the story from the side, they're in it, and react as is consistent with their characters. >his death was important for Qrow's character but was largely plot irrelevant. His death was stupid I agree and frankly it was an entirely idiotic moment. Qrow fighting Clover is one thing, but letting Tyrian join in was just out of character. If it had been 1 on 1 I'd agree it'd be important, but as it is, it's just muddled. Again, later Volumes had dumb, pointless deaths, I agree. >His death was just a reset button for a dumb "nuke Mantle" plot But it did get Harriet to stop being a spazz and for the Ace Ops to reassess their loyalties. >He got written into the villain corner so I'll ignore him Agreed. Heel-face turn that made no sense. Plot relevance is probably gonna be nil. >If the death is not STRICTLY NECESSARY for plot progression then it should probably be avoided I disagree. I think that allowing deaths to happen so long as they aren't STUPID deaths (like Adam and Penny's) let the story feel more alive. People die, it happens, and sometimes it isn't for any good reason, sometimes it's only impact is the trauma it leaves on people. How this trauma affects a character's actions determines if the death is meaningful. >Roman I disagree. What did he bring to the table after Vale falls? His schtick is being a criminal gang-leader in Vale, outside of that his plot relevancy is nil.

>>2352 I think you're confusing impact for plot relevancy. Were the deaths impactful? Absolutely, especially to the audience and to a lesser extent the characters. But to the plot? They were mostly irrelevant. Had any of the specific deaths I mentioned not happened or other characters been substituted in their place, the plot would have effectively been unchanged. Consider the Pyrrha/Jaune swap as the easiest example. Jaune dying in Pyrrha's place would not result in any meaningful change of events from V4 onwards, thereby making Pyrrha's death plot-irrelevant, since its effects could be replicated by any other (and if a death is not required to replicate the effects, then the death itself is plot-irrelevant). There is not a single death that is absolutely required for the plot to continue uninterrupted. That's what we mean when we say it's plot irrelevant, and that's why things like opportunity-cost and thematics need to be taken into account when deciding to kill off a character. >"I want Pyrrha!" Unironically a legitimate argument to keep her. That's why Neo was kept around, after all. Since we're discussing the plot/narrative, it is required we look at it from a 3rd person or meta perspective and judge the decisions based on that. The characters being kept consistent in their reactions is the absolute bare minimum a writer must accomplish, and even in that case RWBY can be criticized in failing to do so in certain events. >I disagree about character deaths What you're describing is the theme of the cheapness or fragility of life, and while I forgot to note the latter, I did name the former as being a legitimate reason to more freely kill off characters. However, RWBY as a property does not possess either theme as a focus. Especially since there were so many better opportunities to emphasize the fragility of life (Summer being dead and that impact on RWBY, the deaths of Mistral's huntsmen, the destruction of Mountain Glenn, etc), it just feels more like the deaths were made for shock value than any coherent theming. I disagree that it adds to the world or makes it feel more alive. I'd argue the opposite, in fact, due to the poor execution of the aftermaths. This is something that I doubt either of us will convince the other of, as it's simply personal preference and I'm sure we can both agree the execution was subpar regardless of such. >What did Roman bring to the table Like Watts, an interaction dynamic with the other Villains that would've made them interesting to watch. Thematically he's a pretty total foil to Ruby and would represent a connection to the earlier, simpler times. Keeping him around and seeing how he's also affected by the raised stakes etc could've been an interesting subplot. His plot relevancy could have been maintained by having Salem send him to prep other targets. A criminal connection would have been especially relevant in Mistral, where Roman already has several connections. There's a lot that could have been done with Roman, especially since he had an excellent on screen presence. It will forever remain speculative though, just like Sienna Khan.

To be fair, the idea that Roman should have been kept around is a valid one. I know a lot of people criticize One Piece for not killing off characters that often but it's mainly because Oda likes to bring them back to find a new use for them. I think most people can agree that NOT killing off characters like Buggy or Crocodile was a great decision simply because of how fun they made Impel Down. Not to mention no one was expecting Cross Guild. Thats who Roman could've been. However I do think that I'm ultimately fine with them killing off Pyrrha. Whether she stayed or died I think I'd still feel the same about her. But it's better for the story in her case since she creates the tragedy that Jaune must overcome internally to resolve the plot. Penny on the other hand could have stayed.

Pyrrha staying dead is fine. It's kinda needed to get him obsessed with Cinder. The real question here is that if Team JNPR were the main characters how do you guys think the show would change? Like if the show was called JNPR and not RWBY would they have done things differently or better than team RWBY? If so how?

>>2448 This is derivative but I'd like RWBY to be handled similarly to how Hero and her party is handled in Goblin Slayer. RWBY remains the big damn heroes of the setting, but JNPR goes around to all the places with little attention and helps them out with much smaller problems. It fits with Ren and Nora's back stories, Jaune's desire to be a hero, and Pyrrha's dislike of the limelight if they're all out in the sticks. Of course, the pacing will have to be different since RWBY has to be established as their friends, but I like the idea of RWBY being some chaotic force always getting into shit that we never quite really see but JNPR deals with the aftermaths. Then the few times they do appear they can really shine. Or so I imagine, anyway. If the canon path of things is maintained, then I think the plot becomes a lot more grounded without readily having the silver eyes available. As MC's, they'd probably leave Ruby behind before heading to Haven, and RWBY's dissolution could be used to show that JN(P)R are a special team for staying together despite everything. I feel like Pyrrha needs to take a Yang instead of outright dying in the fall if they're MCs, but if you kill her anyway and really focus on JNR's hurt and quest for revenge you could get some really good scenes. I do think they'd handle Atlas a lot better than RWBY, being more inclined to cooperation with Ironwood, and without Adam stalking Blake at Argus, maybe Ren could successfully execute the airship theft plan and get away clean. It'd be little things that add up over time I think

>>2469 >I feel like Pyrrha needs to take a Yang instead of outright dying in the fall if they're MCs Are...are you using Yang as a synonym for taking an L ?

>>2471 More like as a synonym for "taking a grievous, maiming injury as a direct result of her hubris" but essentially yeah

I feel as though as time went by, Team RWBY's cohesion fell apart. Even while Nora being a dumb bitch, she still is a massive part of JNPR.

>>2548 >Nora being a dumb bitch Nora's smarter than she lets on, she's just bubbly, so people don't take her seriously.

>>2561 I think he meant how her whole "finding herself" thing was both retarded and unsubstantiated. Only the most obtuse people didn't consider Nora's character perfectly independent from Ren. Like you sort of imply, they only looked at her surface level and so the writers tried to make her more "complex" and fucked it up.

>>2597 >I think he meant how her whole "finding herself" thing was both retarded and unsubstantiated. Yeah I agree. They basically reset her relationship with Ren and for no real reason except dumb drama.

Team RNJR > JNPR > RWBY