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I hate the fairy type Anonymous 04/17/2025 (Thu) 04:42:21 Id: 8f6f9e No. 1108346
>Cleffa >218 BST >but just because he's of the fairy type he can negate all damage from attacks such as Outrage, Draco Meteor or Dragon Rush >can safely switch and cancel a sword dance Garchomp outrage or dragon dance flygon outrage MAKE IT MAKE SENSE I hate the fairy type. I did ever since it was introduced, because it was strictly for gameplay balance reasons and Game freak never really succeeded in making the type feel natural compared to Dark or Steel. On top of that, it lessened the reward in raising slow-grower Dragon type pokemon. The investment and commitment they needed gave you a strong mon that was close to invincible but now some random can switch in her snubull and cancel your outrage domination.
Save it for the Pokemon general >>>/faggot/
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>>1108346 Sounds like you need to gitgud.
>Waaah Dragon type gets all the pseudolegendaries but has a hard counter other than the infamously weak ice type Cry less, kashira.
>>1108346 Steel chads continue to win
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>>1108363 I'm sorry, is this /vg/? Did i click on the wrong board again?
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>>1108346 >not bringing coverage moves to deal with fairy types you deserve to get bullied by the star babby
You hate fairy type because it nerfed the shit out of dragon type moves for the sins of draco and outrage. I hate fairy type because they were a completely unwarranted nerf to bug type.
Fairy is gen 1 Psychic levels of broken, except it's permitted to remain this broken for generations while Psychic was addressed quickly in subsequent gens.
>>1108393 >>1108428 >>1109614 I will just not play any pokemon game or romhack past gen 6. >>1109653 I agree with you anon. Bug should have been super effective against fairy. >>1111139 Factual.
dragons have always been gay which is why ice is the best type
I want to FUCK that Clefairy
>>1112883 >I will just not play any pokemon game or romhack past gen 6 You are missing out. The point of romhacks is that they have all the gimmicks that gamefreak keep removing, all the pokemons, but none of the issues of new games. That being said, Palworld really killed my will to play pokemon in general
Also >outrage spam lmao >>1108346
>>1108346 >MAKE IT MAKE SENSE It makes at least as much sense as a dragon being weak to ice and nothing else except itself.
>>1138286 Sauce? My principles are compromised
>muh lizards qqqqqq so use a dragon that isnt relying on dragon moves?
is this the smogon general?
>>1223530 A smogon thread would've been smarter. It's just me being mad because I can't sweep reliably using the good old dragon dance + outrage setup with a dragonite on modern romhacks
>>1138286 >Palworld really killed my will to play pokemon in general Because you only played pokemon and didn't develop any actual standards? Or because Palworld was so bad it turned you off of monster tamers as a whole?
>>1108346 >>can safely switch and cancel a sword dance Garchomp outrage or dragon dance flygon outrage First of all who the fuck uses Outrage or Dragon Dance on Garchomp or Flygon? Or just Outrage in general? Garchomp got powercrept too hard to be a sweeper nowadays, you use him to stealth rock and switch in to deal chip damage with rough skin & rocky helmet and deal normal damage with shit like Earthquake. And why the fuck would you Draco Meteor after Swords Dance? That's a special moves. And Cleffable is much better, since it has Unaware to deal with stat boosts.
>>1224653 >And why the fuck would you Draco Meteor after Swords Dance? That's a special moves. >the poor bastard doesn't know Gen 9 babbies will never experience the sheer overflow of panic, fear, and terror over a mixed Garchomp, aka Chain Chomp, causing a complete hull breach in your defensive core.
>>1224965 i saw one of these in gen 8, scary shit, id scout to check if it had fire blast for corviknight
>>1224965 Get Bronzong'd and ice beam'd with your cringe 6 dragon team. >implying that your shit memory of getting sweeped like a loser is unique in any way Lmao. In Gen 3 it was Groudon/Kyogre/Tyranitar/Jirachi sweeping your ass up and cracking your entire team, in Gen 5 it was Sandstream Excadrill, in Gen 6 it was Geomancy Xerneas, in Gen 7 it was Araquanid and Kartana, in Gen 8 it was that dumb as fuck retardedly made Dracovish (who the fuck thought this was a good idea?) and Urshifu and so on.
More like faggy-type lol
>>1225147 Oh, and I forgot Regieleki with his damn 200 speed. In Gen 9 it's Annihilape as soon as you Population bomb him and I guess Flutter Mane + Iron Bundle with Freeze Dry too.
>>1225147 >>1225166 This entire post reeks of sub-1500 ELO >>>ice beam Bronzong Ah, I see. He's just shitposting
>>1225166 those niggas got banned 2 years ago
>>1225215 I didn't mean Bronzong WITH Ice beam, I just meant Ice Beam in general, retard. >reeks of Are you really gonna pretend these aren't common sweepers and try to move the subject? I'm not talking about what they're doing right now, I'm just saying that his memeshit of "you'll never experience the same" is clearly completely wrong because every single fucking gen had that shit. Also forgot Shell Smash Cloyster. Can't remember when they gave him that though, probably gen 5.
>>1225234 You listed all that banworthy shit that you probably weren't around for, but you completely missed the point of what made a specific set like Chain Chomp so scary all the way up to gen 8. With the exceptions of Tyranitar and Rayquaza, you see everything else on your list and you instantly have a general idea of what they're going to do. You see Jirachi and you can figure out if it's offensive or defensive if you've seen enough of his team. You see MausApe and you know it's going to use beat up + rage fist and they have clear amulet + saftey goggles. You see Regieleki and you know it has tera ice. You see Kartana and you know it's a physical attacking set and is now in a position to deal some real damage despite its shit offensive typing and movepool. You see early BW1 Excadrill, Cloyster, or Xerneas and you know the game is already over because sand rush, shell smash, or geomancy + power herb is his wincon. Whether or not you can handle the broken sets is another matter entirely, and when you lose to them, you probably already saw it coming anyway. Mixed attacking sets like Mixquaza, DPP Mixmence, ScarfTar, Chain Chomp, etc. on the other hand exploit the mental load they normally put on the defending player with their flagship sets. You expect Tyranitar to crunch or set up rocks and suddenly you eat an ice beam to the face. You expect Rayquaza to set up or drop an outrage, and now your physically defensive Lugia is in danger after a draco. You switch in a physical answer to DPP Mence, a mon that demands an immediate answer to stop it from ending the game, and now you just lost a pokemon to the DD/Draco coinflip. You expect the Garchomp to be phyisical after SD, and now your check is 2HKO'd by fire blast or draco. This was the basis for Salamence's ban at the tail end of gen 4 before gens 5 and 9 made the game so fast paced. There is a very real demoralizing aspect to losing a pokemon to the most infamous mixed sets in a slower metagame (I use slower loosely for Gen 4 as it's decently fast but still much slower than gens 5 and 9). The best you can do is guess and pray you picked the right set. This is all without factoring in the lack of a team preview in gens 3 and 4 to further mask the set. Funny story about Cloyster. Shell smash Cloyster was seen as a noob strat back in the BW era. Its banworthy status in gen 5 is much more recent. Smogonites used to shit themselves with rage over Cloyster being OU by usage in the early months of BW1 because the shell smash was so telegraphed and Cloyster sweeping was poorly optimized at the time. There was a lot of "STOP USING CLOYSTER AND DONPHAN" in the discussions, both on the forums and on the Pokemon Online server.
>>1108346 While I don't agree with the top half, as I think Fairy was a decent gameplay addition, they completely and utterly fumbled the ball when it came to implementing it naturally into the world. The entire line is just a bunch of normal and grass types that got the "Dragon Killer" type slapped onto them because uh... It looks retarded no matter how you slice it. There are a lot of ways to have done what they were doing and they went about it the worst way. That said, I will still defend their gameplay implementation. Dragon had needed a limiter for a few gens and Fairy worked well as one. As said earlier in the thread though, the Bug resistance should've been swapped, it's strong enough being a literal wall for Dragons and a Fighting/Dark counter, it didn't need to shit on the poor bugs. They've had it bad enough.
>>1109653 Fairy resisting bug was obviously some garde waifutard on the dev team playing favorites. >>1112883 That's also retarded though. Best buff for bug right now would be to make the resist ghost (and maybe switch their NVE vs ghost into SE, maybe).
>>1226484 Fairy works well as a "vaguely magic thing that isn't Psychic/mythological creature that isn't ghost" category, the only issue is that Gamefreak keeps using it as the "mascot character to sell merch to young girls" type.
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>>1227119 That's why grimmsnarl is peak fairy type performance.
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>be male trainer >only want a team of cool and manly pokemon >get given a Popplio (male) as your starter >when he evolves, he does everything to prove his manliness despite his feminine appearance and nature >eventually wins you over and becomes the ace of your badass team >other kids laugh at you >destroy their teams which only have traditionally masculine types like Fire, Ground, Rock, Dark, Fighting and Dragon--all of which are weak to Primarina
>>1227778 What website is that visualization from?
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>>1108428 Why not just, like, make ice less shit? Instead they just made a straight better version of ice.
>>1227977 Sorry, we need to make sure Ice stays a defensive specialist type (please don't look at the multiple devastating weaknesses and its only resistance being itself bro we swear it's super defensive man). I'm surprised they weren't also made weak to Fairy in Gen 6 while they were at it with how much they despise this type.
>>1227522 Agreed. >>1228200 Ice is at the best place it's been since Gen 1 though. Hail buffs throughout the gens have added up.
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>>1228266 I hope you're ready for that minmaxed mega Froslass in gen 10. Better have scizor on your team.
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>>1228591 Froslass is my favorite mon, so I unironically hope you're right.
>>1227119 >just a sleeping plush, pins, a mug and hoodie/shirt Dam.
>>1227977 >>1228200 Ice is a great glass cannon type that keeps being given to slow bulky defensive mons. Every fast offensive ice type is great.
Fairy type is the most fuckable on average though. Fairy, Grass and Psychic produce the best waifus.
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>>1232044 Ice could still do with a resistance to something other than itself, just so bulky mons with the type aren't completely fucked in every matchup except the mirror, and to bring it into something resembling parity with other offense-focused types like Dark and Psychic which both get at least one resistance other than themselves and still aren't completely broken even though they also have less weaknesses than Ice in exchange for their expanded resistances.
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>>1108346 Fairy was alright conceptually since a lot of pokemon like Cleffa got lumped into normal despite being some weird sort of magic. That said, Fairy should have been resistant to Dragon, not immune. Dragon was, and still is, actually pretty shit offensively since it was only SE against itself. Also Fairy should have been weak to Bug, not resistant. >>1228200 It's bullshit Ice doesn't at least resist Grass.
>>1237492 >Dragon was You didn't play the game.
>>1237492 >>1240549 Dragon used to be an absurdly OP attacking type because only Steel resisted it and the moves like Draco Meteor were so overtuned they could OHKO a lot of mons with neutral damage. Draco used to be 140 base power and average bulk used to be lower, yes there were exceptions like Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, etc. but the average mon ate shit to neutral Draco.
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>>1226102 Interesting read, anon. I think people often underestimate how strong unpredictability can be, rather than stuff like raw stats, good typing and moves, etc. You can always tell when people are upset about some mon being broken due to unpredictability because they'll start complaining about 50/50s and coinflips. Makes you wonder why Zoroark never made a dent anywhere (afaik).
>>1227043 Fairly seemed like a U-turn nerf more than a bug nerf, the type is just paying for one move's crimes.
>>1240998 Funny because Bug as a typing is totally fine defensively, in fact I'd argue it's one of the better typings. Resisting Ground and Fighting, two very common types, make it really good especially paired with Steel or Rock or whatever. It's just on a lot of really shit mons. It being "bad" offensively isn't even that big of a deal since it's arguably the highest utility type, with an unstoppable pivot move, sticky web, stat lowering attacks, leech life, the ultimate setup move in Quiver Dance, etc It fits that bugs don't OHKO you but they wear you down.
>>1232044 Not only that, but three of the five ice types (Dewgong/Lapras/Articuno) were nerfed by gen 2's special split. A fourth ice type, Cloyster could also be considered since it doesn't need its special attack stat as much in the later gens. As a defensive pokemon, however, Cloyster was definitely nerfed and was hard carried by spikes. Fortunately, Skarmory didn't have spikes yet, so Cloyster became the premier spiker. The one that was buffed, Jynx, became doomed to never receive an evolution or forme due to racial controversy. Ice type was kneecapped until Game Freak suddenly went "Fuck it" with gorilla tactics.
>>1108346 >The investment and commitment they needed gave you a strong mon It ultimately doesn't matter at all because when you play against other people you all have the exact same level, and if you are talking about the main Single Player mode, it's so piss easy that it's barely a consideration.
>>1241098 >Cloyster could also be considered since it doesn't need its special attack stat as much in the later gens. Cloyster often runs mixed sets in later Gens though to break through physical walls.
>>1240549 >>1240965 A lot of Dragon POKEMON and moves were OP, but the typing would have been mediocre offensively if most fully evolved dragon types weren't pseudos or legendaries that could statcheck 90% of the roster with neutral damage. But dragon pokemon pokemon that can't do that suck. I can get use out of a water type with sub-500 BST but the dragons in that category are all regarded as trash.
>>1108346 Based. Me too.
>>1243343 Dragon as a type would have been fine had outrage not been buffed and draco meteor never existed. The only reason something like CM Latias could work in gen 4 is because the opponent was forced to immediately check the threat of a draco first.
>>1243343 >>1243450 >NO DRAGON WOULD BE FINE IF YOU CUT DRAGONS AND CUT DRAGON MOVES Based so Fairy is fine if you cut the tapus and moonblast.
>>1244015 I feel like post-buff ghost would have been a much better comparison, but you wanted to shitpost instead and blew it. Go back to cuckchan when it reopens
>>1244393 Nah he is right Types don’t exist in a vacuum, it’s meaningless to say “Dragons would not be OP if they had lower stats” because high stats are part of the type’s identity.
>>1241831 I disagee. I feel that high coverage types like dragon and ghost should be kept in check by lower power moves like dragon claw, dragon pulse, and shadow ball. There is a huge difference in power between 80-90 base power and 120-140. DP Salamence's mediocrity was living proof of this as it would fail to break through teams even after a dragon dance backed by 135 base attack and enough bulk to take multiple hits to bring down. Why? Because dragon claw sucked. He wasn't sweeping shit in the newly powercrept DP meta with an 80 base power move. So what happened to Salamence prior to outrage? It became a draco spammer to abuse the high power + high coverage move that shouldn't have existed on a non-legend to begin with. Fuck outrage, fuck draco, fuck the steel nerf, and fuck the removal of pursuit
>>1108346 I enjoy feeding fairies to my Crobat though. No, I don't play competitive, I just love Crobat.
>>1245586 >singlehandedly invalidates Crobat unless it has super fang Only a specially inclined mega evo will save Crobat
>>1245900 >Pokemon has answers THE AUDACITY
>>1245321 >>1245317 You are so many levels removed from how the game actually IS I'm not even sure how to engage with your post. Outrage is a 120 BP move in Gen 4 and every recommended set for Salamence runs it, also DP Salamence is listed as Uber. And Gamefreak doesn't balance around Smogon anyway.
>>1246245 Yes, DPP Salamence is uber. Keyword "Platinum". DP Salamence was a mediocre physical sweeper that was hard walled by physical walls like Hippowdon, so it made a name for itself by spamming specs draco, fire blast, and hydro pump instead. You know who DID have outrage in DP? The vastly superior Garchomp that centralized the entire game around it before eventually getting banned shortly after Platinum released in Japan.
>>1246372 I think it’s more than a little silly to say a type was defined by a single Pokemon in a fanmade format for a single game within a single generation.
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>>1244522 At some point that was true but the only other type that had stats as part of it's identity was Bug, which historically suffered in competitive formats until it got U-turn and some heavier hitters. Balancing Dragon as a type around pseudos means you can't really make weaker dragon-types unless you give them a broken ability/signature move/etc. >>1241814 >it's so piss easy that it's barely a consideration. I'd argue the single player experience was the main consideration for Dragon being strong. The Dragon type was designed to counter starters by resisting all 3 starter types + Electric to dunk on Pikachu. In Gen 1 and 2 Dragonite will be a credible threat to every starter since it resists their primary type and outstats them, and rewards players who explored and leveled up a Dratini into a Dragonite with a Pokemon that can dunk on their rival's starter. (inb4 Ice Beam TM on Water starter). Comp got more attention over the years, and while it got more considerations, I think Gen 6 adding Fairy was the moment when competitive balance took priority over the single player experience. Dragon is no longer a rare threat and reward, but just another type to balance around.
>>1248410 The point being it took a hell of a lot more than just dragon typing and good stats for dragon type STAB to be good before Game Freak threw caution to the wind and gave a high coverage type high base power moves with good accuracy. The fact that Flygon, a pokemon that was previously an underwhelming attacker, became one of the most dangerous physical (and sometimes mixed) threats in the game in gen 4 should be proof enough that the moves were the problem, not the pokemon. It's disgusting how everyone can agree on close combat being the epitome of powercreep, but then look at outrage/draco and suddenly blame the dragons themselves all because draco's concept was introduced in gen 3.
>>1227892 Classic >>1137719 Clefairy a cutie
>>1249309 >liked popplio the best >turned into the worst of final starter formsm >liked sobble the best >turned into the worst of the final starter forms. >liked quaxly the best >turned into the worst of the final starter forms Man I really wanted to like Quaqaval since I like it's typing, ability and movepool, but damn is that thing ugly.
>>1249178 >dragon type moves in gen 3 are all special >gen 4 makes physical dragon moves a thing >suddenly physical dragons are better The story you’re telling is really silly, they were never gonna restrict any types BP moves to sub 100 anyway it’s like saying dark type was ruined after gen 2 because dark type Pokemon shouldn’t have higher than 60 BP. Convo is so confusing it made more sense from a design perspective to add a new type
>>1227892 >play this game >learn about this pokemon >think - well let's do this, could be funny >became the most attached I've been to a starter since gen 2 I love this little guy. I forget that pokemon are not disgusting human being pig disgusting.
>>1227778 >when he evolves, he does everything to prove his manliness despite his feminine appearance and nature I also had this head canon. He also a cute. Unlike trans people, who are often horrible human beings.
>>1252897 >gen 4 makes physical dragon moves a thing >suddenly physical dragons are better There is a huge difference between giving a type a perfectly acceptable physical stab, dragon claw, and giving a high coverage type a 120 base power move with perfect accuracy and seemingly no downside. It was if Game Freak had learned nothing from gen 1 blizzard. >they were never gonna restrict any types BP moves to sub 100 anyway That's exactly what they did for special ghost moves outside of two signature moves that are locked away to ubers and restricted formats. Fast forward to today, post-buff ghost is still within the edge of what's acceptable as it takes a truly minmaxed monstrosity like Spectrier to push shadow ball spam into being too unbearable for singles play. Give mons like Gengar and Gholdengo their own draco, and I assure you the game will fall apart very quickly.
>>1245586 golbat was so silly i didn't like evolving zubat, but crobat in silver was cool. I remember mine evolved at level 44 in underground goldenrod during the rocket radio tower takeover
>>1253345 I’m gonna be honest I’m totally lost on what point you’re actually trying to make. Special moves in general got toned down across the board after Gen 6 because burn and intimidate were too powerful, it’s not really a ghost thing. Draco meteor was an exception since it has a built in downside, same with Overheat. Outrage also has a built in downside. The fact Garchomp has outrage in DPP should tell you GF didn’t really think of dragon type how you seem to think they should be. This convo started with somebody saying “types don’t exist in a vacuum so it’s meaningless to judge only on the type chart” and you’re going off on this tangent about how Outrage and Draco meteor never should have existed.
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>>1253589 His point makes sense to me. GameFreak intentionally made Dragons OP, and we know this because they hold back with other types, rather than just make everything uniform by handing out 120 base power moves to every type equally. Outrage and Draco Meteor have absurdly high base power and are reliable because they have good accuracy. That makes them ridiculous. Look at other high-power moves that have bad accuracy. Thunder, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Gunk Shot, etc. Nobody is lining up to shove these moves onto their mons, and there's a solid reason to pick the weaker versions, such as Thunderbolt and Poison Jab, because they're reliable. This balances the types' power somewhat, people can't just send in their mons and click 120 base power STABs and crush everything. Dragons aren't broken JUST because of the moves, but you have to admit that having all of these high-stat monsters running around clicking Outrage and Draco puts makes them retardedly strong. Look at other good types and see how GameFreak tempered their power with weaker moves. Ghost, Dark, and Fairy are all great offensive types. None of them have access to an easy, spammable, high-power move. The best you get is 80 - 95 base power stuff like Shadow Ball, Play Rough, and Knock Off. The point that anon is making is that the devs intentionally didn't make copies of Outrage and Draco for these other strong types because they knew that if they did, the types would overrun the game, just like Dragon did.
>>1253759 I don’t really understand what we’re trying to argue about. Dragons in the old games were OP because lots of dragon types have very high stats and high base power moves which let them OHKO on neutral damage. Fairy was added so there would be more counterplay to these powerful dragon types. What are we arguing about?
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>>1253921 Uhh dunno, anon. Now that I've joined you down here in 80-IQ land, I kinda just forgot.
>>1253589 >Special moves in general got toned down across the board after Gen 6 because burn and intimidate were too powerful, it’s not really a ghost thing. No, anon, other types having their high base power moves nerfed slightly is not the same as having a type's best option capped at 80 since gen 2. Physical ghost was also kneepcapped even more harshly from gens 4-7 (only made worse by phantom force being a gimmick move), but has now started to receive more powerful options since gen 8 introduced poltergeist. Game Freak did, however, go a little overboard with last respects and rage fist. Poltergeist in particular, while very powerful, technically does have counterplay through consumable items and forgoing an item entirely. >and you’re going off on this tangent about how Outrage and Draco meteor never should have existed. Well, should types with strong neutral coverage like ghost and dragon have attacks with high power and accuracy? If draco and 120 BP outrage never existed, then fairy type might not have even had a dragon immunity. A resistance would have probably sufficed. I am NOT, however, saying fairy type wouldn't have existed. Fairy was needed to answer the explosive power level boost the fighting type was given in gens 4-5. Close combat, choice scarf Heracross, Infernape, Lucario, superpower as a tutor move, no guard Machamp, hi jump kick being buffed to a massive 130 base power, Conkeldurr, speed boost Blaziken, Terrakion, technician Breloom, Keldeo.... this shit was getting way out of hand.
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>make completely useless type whose only niche is countering Dragons >no resistances >individual mons so bad they never end up countering dragons in meta once in 20 years >give it massively overpowered moves to compensate for lack of BST >doesn't work, best you can get is Aurora Veil bots >... >replace it with Fairy >give it a legendary with an AOE signature move 150/100 and free ATK boosts >later try to fix it with a 50% DEF boost and a massive HP wall with 130ATK and Slush Rush >still useless, not even worth the slot to set Aurora Veil for other meta mons who can actually do shit >only viable non-legendary is Ice-Fairy JUST. REDO. THE. WEAKNESSES/RESISTANCES.
>>1241098 >The one that was buffed, Jynx, became doomed to never receive an evolution or forme due to racial controversy. She would had been removed by now if true. It's that she's one of those shit mons who never receive any improvements, because Game Freak only care about popular mons. It's why Onix still sucks even to this day.
>>1240979 Zoroark wasn't as relevant because of team preview, so when you see it, you half expect every mon your opponent has to be an Zoroark in disguise, so you prepare accordingly until you see one. Some say GF added team preview because of Zoroark, but I suspect it's also because of Gen 3 Lead Metagame.
>>1344136 My Solution >Water is now weak to ice >Fire and Ice are weak to each other Problem solved
>>1622319 Before Fairy existed, I was going to say we don't need it at all. Just make Dragon weak to Steel (knight conquering mythical beast) and then Steel weak to Electric (it's fucking metal). That would have solved the problem.
>bans baton pass >JOLTEON CAN NEVER BE AS GOOD AS RAIKOU GIVE UP SCRUB >bans kyurem-white but somehow allows black to stay >white never did as well in ubers as black did in OU >WOW KYUREM-BLACK IS THE BEST ICE TYPE OF ALL TIME AMAZING CAN YOU BELIEVE IT Dear god please give smogonfags some self-awareness
>>1249769 Gamefreak knows that furfags pay alot for merchandise of characters they want to fuck, so that's the angle they'll go for now. FOREVER.
>>1622388 That would make sense >>1253580 That's a neat place to evolve, cool
>>1108346 At least the fairy typing is salvageable. Just give it a few more weaknesses. Pic related is far worse and should have died in gen 3.
>>1108346 > strictly for gameplay balance reasons This is incorrect. There's no way it could have been when Dragon-types are not only weak against themselves, but are also weak against a type whose Pokémon may or may not be strong enough to deal with dragons, but whose attacks are learnable by the most prolific type in the series. To elaborate, there hasn't been a type that surpassed/surpasses the Water-type in numbers since Gen I--and even then, the Poison-type only beat the Water-type by one. The vast majority of that same Water-type's Pokémon are capable of learning Ice-type moves--and, judiciously, their trainers frequently teach them those techniques; most commonly, the (once) 95-power Ice Beam. That's just the Water-types; Ice Beam is additionally compatible with many Pokémon outside the Water-type. So, when people like those Smogon buffoons tell you the Fairy-type changes were necessary, ignore them--they couldn't (and likely still can't) stop circle-jerking in their meta long enough to remember the rest of the game. So, if that hard counter to Dragon-types wasn't actually necessary, why did it come to pass? The answer is in the Fairy-type itself, and what it symbolizes. Dragons are masculine symbols of power--which is, itself, a masculine trait. The inherently feminine Fairy-type not only opposes and resists it totally, but subjugates it--a total repudiation of the existing symbolism of dragons and, thus, a declaration of femininity's superiority over masculinity. Fitting, given pics related: dragons were the masculine route TPC rejected in favor of the femininity it now primarily sells to its intended audience--women and feminized males. The shift in target demographics was gradual, but it was sharply realized in Gen VI, where a Fairy-type legendary was not only one of the version mascots, but the implicitly good force between the two (what Yveltal is intended to be is in its name). If you're a male, and not an effeminate, Pokémon isn't for you--not anymore. The Fairy-type was the first clear message to that effect.
>>1624188 based schizo but I don't think that's the reason at all Fairy doesn't need to be inherently feminine any more than all the Gen9 pokemon need to look like retarded plushies what's more, Fairy and Alola were featured in the 3rd Pokemon movie in the girl's picture book all the way back in 2000 I think "Fairy" was definitely the wrong word, they should've gone with "Fae" or "Fable" because that's the actual theme. Supernatural creatures from folk tales and fables. the shift isn't even feminine, it's faggy Gardevoir looks feminine, Tinkatonk or whatever the fuck it's called looks like a tranny it's a parody of femininity, which is demonized just as much as masculinity, and GF got raked over coals for it in Japan, especially for the NPCs. There's being subversive and then there's old man wearing a school uniform out in the forest using feminine animations asking little boys for 1v1s.
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>>1624188 >>1624457 Fairy being effective against Dragons has to do with some stories portrayed these species as "good or evil" and "holy vs devil". The pixies being the embodiment of good while Dragons not so much. Also, dragons were portrayed as "demons" in some stories like in the Bible, while Fairies being called "divine" in other stories.
>>1624188 You might as well say Nintendo of America changed the "evil" type to "dark" type in the west to be pro nigger with that level of reaching.
>>1624457 >schizo In other words, "conspiracy theorizing"? You don't have to look far the way >>1624811 believes one must to see what I'm saying: at the beginning of the series, as it is now, Pikachu (at least once the anime catapulted it to such a position) was the face of the series--but Charizard and its kind were never far from the spotlight; nowadays, TPC sells games and products that promote Pikachu and Eevee--but nothing about the latter's evolutions...unless they're to be sold as stuffed animals. >the shift isn't even feminine But to whom were those stuffed animals offered? The games that present Pokémon as cuddly pets, no matter how powerful or potentially dangerous they are (e.g., Dragonite, despite its famous natural benevolence)--to whom are they meant to appeal? Even in Gen IV, Hearthome City's Amity Square pet walks were only available to the kind of Pokémon suitable for such marketing--now, it extends to all of them through things like Sleep. Why? >it's faggy What do you mean by that, then? Did faggotry somehow, at some point, stop meaning "effeminacy"? >it's a parody of femininity "Parody" or not, TPC still plays it straight in its offerings--it's presented to the audience with the expectation that it be accepted as-is, not mocked as some kind of caricature. Do the games/products signal the audience to view their contents and ridicule it, as a break from the "actual" material the series is known for? Or is that the intended material? >Fairy and Alola were featured in the 3rd Pokemon movie in the girl's picture book all the way back in 2000 I remember that movie, having gone to see it--it was indeed the last Pokémon movie I went to see--but while (given the subject of the movie) fairies could have been discussed, I do not remember the Fairy-type nor Alola being broached, nor do I remember any discussion about any sort of hinting at any point since. You'd have to prove that one. That being said, and since we're on the topic of olden days, do you not see the difference between Digimon and Pokémon? Yet these two IPs came into being at roughly the same time. Why do you think the monsters of Digimon have remained the same, if not having become even more appealing to a masculine audience, while Pokémon has deteriorated into what it is today? >>1624480 Fairy being effective against Dragons has to do with some stories portrayed these species as "good or evil" and "holy vs devil". This is one of the concepts I immediately thought of when I first heard of the Fairy-type. It doesn't contradict anything I said, however--rather, it corroborates my point. You don't abase the things you wish to promote.
>>1624480 >The pixies being the embodiment of good Say tha' twa oor fayces, laddie!
>>1624457 >I think "Fairy" was definitely the wrong word, they should've gone with "Fae" or "Fable" because that's the actual theme. Supernatural creatures from folk tales and fables. The problem is that ghosts and dragons are also supernatural, as are psychic abilities. Remember that "Dark" is still directly called "Evil" in Japan. It's the only type that doesn't directly correspond to the Japanese name.
>>1625050 that scunner wouldnae dare
Didn't Fairy type debut in the same game where Gamefreak had planned an alien invasion plotline, but chickened out and scrapped it instead?
>>1625466 You might be thinking of Breath of the Wild.
Why the fuck does water ground exist as a type, absolute fucking cancer that requires you to have a shitty grass type that will inevitably still get ice beamed by the water ground, fuck this game and it's nonsense
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>>1625677 Hey fuck you too man, some of us are doing our best out here
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>>1624457 When I think of the Fairy type I think of Grimmsnarl which has a 10/10 design. They should take more cues from SMT and make more Fairy mons that aren't "pink + cute".
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>>1626095 mudkip and his evolution line were never cool, and his old fag meme was never funny
>>1624188 based post that perfectly summs up the subconscious reasons most pre gen VI fans lost interest. the new mon artstyle sucked in gen V but the human design suffered worse since gen 6 into androgenic trannies
>>1625036 >What do you mean by that, then? Did faggotry somehow, at some point, stop meaning "effeminacy"? I feel like it's pretty self evident there's nothing feminine about faggots in the same way that there's nothing wolf-like in a furry who pretends to be a wolf the act of imitation gives form to something else entirely also about the movie https://archive.org/details/PokemonS01M03Pokemon3TheMovieSpellOfTheUnown At 0:51 a fairy is riding on Entei at 39:44 there's Alola with a hint at Solgaleo (they probably only knew they wanted it to be sun and moon themed at this point)
>>1626633 this anime girl fairy isn't convincing me that they intended a fairy type
>>1626654 both a hint at fairy and the theme of the games in the gen right after fairy comes out? in the same movie? in the same book? I think the only possible explanations are either that they planned it all in the 90s (very likely if you understand the secret lore) or they looked back to the movie later and used that as inspiration. The page before the fairy and Entei also hints at Diamond and Pearl with the Kabbalistic circle of Unown, the greek pillars, etc. and keep in mind that at this point Unown are mostly themed around egyptian hieroglyphs so those pillars were totally out of place at the time. the only gen missing from the book itself is BW and obviously anything past SM and to be clear, I don't think they planned its place in the meta that far back, that's obviously ridiculous I'm just talking about fairy type as a concept
>>1626702 I'm just saying, the fairy riding Entei doesn't look like a Pokémon at all, just a generic anime fairy girl. The sun looks like a medieval depiction of the sun
>>1626731 well of course, how else would you represent that? surely they're not going to put Floette and Solgaleo in the 2000s movie and then leave them there for 20 years lol all 3 pages are extremely on the nose today, but pretty much inscrutable at the time the movie came out also I missed this page spread, probably XY also, but the vegetation looks kinda English, maybe Sword & Shield again, the only missing piece here is BW, but then again you could make the argument that Truth VS Ideals is the theme of the whole movie. I don't like that explanation though, I think BW wasn't planned this far back.
>>1626830 Well you could make it look more Pokémon-like with different coloured skin or proportions. I think you're stretching on what's simple European style motifs in a storybook
>>1626863 simple european style such as a formation of concentric circles of unowns in the sky surrounded by greek pillars and a tropical island?
>>1626887 I was talking about the fairy pictures but the sun is also a medieval motif and your Kabbala unknowns aren't that unheard-of in western esoterica from that period either.
>>1626915 maybe one can be coincidence, not 3 in the correct order of release
>>1626951 So where is the gen 3 reference and the gen 5 one?
>>1626963 as I said a couple times, BW is the only one that's missing RS were probably too close to hint at here? idk I mean this is from the year 2000, they definitely had a plan but they probably had to adapt to the moment if you're saying that the tropical picture is RS, that's not a bad inference because the sun is looking angry, you could say that's more of a hint at Groudon, but those flowers are not found anywhere in the regions that RS is representing
>>1108346 >playing a shitty game series that is for children You did it to yourself. Go play real games you moron.
>>1627366 >general media is for kids kys
>>1626383 >based post that perfectly summs up the subconscious reasons most pre gen VI fans lost interest I'd say there's neat Pokemon designs on every gen, the problem is the general dumbing down from Gen 6 onwards. Less postgame, forced exp share, removal of features like Set mode. The DLC generally introducing pay2win shit for competitive is really bad too.
>>1627475 >post gen 6 I remember how pokefags spit on gen 5 so hard for whatever reason. One of main reasons being it's pokemon designs, they're too "kanto" or whatever.
>>1627475 Yeah, generally speaking I still enjoy a lot of modern pokemon designs and concepts but the games themselves tend to fall flat in terms of effort, quality and difficulty though I don't mind global EXP share since it cuts grinding in half and no one sane "enjoys" grinding for EXP and EVs ad nauseum for each individual pokemon, plus Game Freak not being able to/not wanting to spice up or change the formula of gameplay outside of minigame modes and extra power-up forms. And the thing is, it HAS been shown recently that Game Freak can really pour in effort into a game to make it stand out on its own like with the mechanics of Legends Arceus and the upcoming Beast of Reincarnation, so really if they wanted to or didn't have constant deadlines breathing down their neck, they could totally make better Pokemon games that aren't as divisive. At least, that's me being optimistic.
>>1627551 The entire POINT of Gen 5 was to be a soft reboot with new analogues for all the Gen 1 Pokémon lines!
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>>1627639 >! If you want to prolong this argument, then I'm going to say that it's a poor attempt at it. A reboot is supposed to be a "reset", a flesh new start. Except in this case, there's so many references to the previous games that it's hardly considered one. Some of the Pokemon's designs in Unova are TOO inspired by previous gens. For instance, Purrloin line are mimicking Meowths too closely (both 2 staged quadrupedal cat species), Audino is a carbon copy of Chansley, Timburr line, Tympole line, even the Foongus line are just copy-pasted ideas from previous PKMN, at the very least with Foongus, what it did was really creative, more than Voltorb mind you. The rest don't even try. Didn't helped that some of them are really lazy, Vanilluxe is the biggest offense here, it managed to be worse than Weezing, who takes notes from instead of doing it's own thing. Of course, there's some other Pokemon designs that are really original and genuinely pleasing to the eyes, and those PKMN shows that you don't need any semblance of "Kantoisms" to stand on it's legs. Game Freak can't help themselves to make any reference to to their games, to the point the results were a blatant copy, instead of a nod at worst. Didn't helped that you can actually transfer your favorites from the previous games post-game, which shattered all of credibility that it's a "reboot".
>>1627950 >carbon copy That's what I said, yeah. It's also why it's a soft reboot, since the numbers continue rising and older Pokémon do start showing up after the end game. I'm not excusing what they did, I'm explaining it. The entire point was to make a new Machamp line and a new Gardevoir line and a new Persian line and a new Golem line, etc. A personal response to it–positive or negative–can't ignore that it's what they did. It has to incorporate THAT they did it. Otherwise the person just looks stupid. >you don't need any semblance of "Kantoisms" to stand on it's legs. Hear hear. >Game Freak can't help themselves to make any reference to to their games Their incompetence has been stacking for quite some time. Part of me wants them to have learned their lesson and make Gen 10 actually good, but another (significant) part of me wants them to crash and fucking burn on Gen 10 so fucking hard that they're forced to completely restructure or perhaps license out the property so that someone who 1. actually cares and 2. actually knows how to code starts making Pokémon games again.
>>1627950 I'd much rather what Gen V did than what Gens III and IV did, where you instead got a random smattering of new and old Pokemon just mashed together. Gen II let you get pretty much all old Pokemon, and the few you couldn't felt like version exclusives (helped by the fact that you could simply trade with the old games), and it just added new ones. But then Gen III didn't let you get tons and tons of old ones, but instead of letting you just forget about them, you were constantly reminded, because you still ran into Tentacool every ten seconds. And no, having to re-buy Gen I games for GBA doesn't count (and neither does needing to get a Gamecube, spinoff games, and special Gamecube link cable, either). I'd much rather Gen V's approach of just doing a wholly new Pokedex.
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>>1108346 I just hate fairy type because all of them look like faggots.
>>1633426 My main issue with Gen V's dex entry is that some of the character designs are rightfully criticized for being too derivative, as I said before. It isn't bad if some of the Pokemon like Vanilluxe are unique and not lazily copypasted, and if it wasn't promoted as a "soft reboot", which it means acknowledges the previous entries with updated chars and what not, while trying a new direction. Which in Pokemon's case, it was always been a "soft reboot" since Ruby and Sapphire. The last real sequel was GSC, who in that games and before, takes place in our world. (Raichu killing a elephant, Surge the American, Rattatas, etc). And these games had all old pokemon available, of course, for the sake of filling the quota i.e Zubats. And this issue comes to bite itself, because some of the BW's PKMN roster are TOO derivative and different to the point it's a inspiration. To add insult to injury, it's the same games as before, but with new gimmicks, like in every generation before. Then it's no wonder why people were mad that these PKMN were a "replacement" to the og, then cry said ogs are unavailable, because the games failed to present themselves that it's a restart. Again, this could be remedied if it was called a reboot, just straight up a new beginning.
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>>1635401 Gens III and IV also had plenty of replacement Pokemon. But the problem is that some are replaced while some old ones are just there like before. Either replace them all or keep them all. Frankly, I don't give a fuck about new Pokemon, at least if the new ones are just replacements, which they always have been, with maybe the exception of Gen II, where you could get basically all the old ones, and the new ones were largely to promote gimmicks like the day/night cycle, or the new types. Rather than removing old ones just to replace them, I'd rather they just stuck with the originals and just give me new adventures with them.
>>1636637 I didn't like how Gen II handled new Pokemon, they should had gave us the options to use new mons too without any insane gimmicks. The fact that Misdreavus is locked behind end game, the new ghost type pokemon is outrageous. Pokemon from Kanto to Johto with cross-gen evolutions + unused beta mons should suffice. The issue with this mindset is that it can be stale. There's nothing wrong with giving new mons the highlight. Especially when there's something as good as Hydreigon or Spinda.
>>1635401 >unique originality is overrated. shit just needs to be good. just because something is original does not make it good (or bad) >inspiration another meme buzzword people toss around to defend rehashes they like. just like rehash is used to criticize knockoffs one doesn't like. it's always like this: if I like it, it's inspiration. if I don't, it's shameless plagiarism


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