>>1297565 mascots made sense in a world of rapid companies rising and each wanting to be their own identity. We no longer live in a world like that since the market has consolidated since then with clear winners or losers, so the lack of 3D platform mascots makes sense.

didnt crash nsane already reignite the genre though?

>>1297671 Is this remaster good, by the way? I'm kind of iffy about the art style, it's the original assets in higher res and poly count which looks a little odd.

>>1297730 Becase that shit is barely a platformer

>>1297730 Didn't it get a sequel?

>>1297730 >Frogun flopped massively. Did it? As >>1297744 said it got a sequel, and it can't have cost much to make as Molegato is a solodev. >>1297741 It is a platformer, I don't know what you mean by that? My issue with Frogun are how its later levels are honestly not very fun, I gave up around World 5 because I stopped enjoying the game.

>>1297770 >It is a platformer, I don't know what you mean by that? It's insanely slow for a platformer IMO

>>1297565 Rayman 4 when?

>>1297671 Well, it almost resurrected Crash Bandicoot as a franchise (also thanks to CTR NF), but Toys for Bob made sure it stays dead. Maybe this gen Activision can pull vicarious vision or Beenox out of the Call of duty mines to make Crash Bandicoot Returns

>>1297870 activision are more likely to wire me $100,000 than to not rape and destroy the crash franchise in favor of call of duty

>>1297774 Frogun is more about precise movement than speed, you can go very fast if you're good with the frog. That said, the focus on precision is part of why I'm not big on the game.

>>1297565 I would love a new Spyro game that has the gliding and supercharge challenges from the first game with the fun minigames and characters from the second game. Too bad it will never happen.

>>1297730 The dev claimed that it was a success. Obviously he is biased but he did make a sequel to it. Can't have been that expensive to make either.

>>1297565 The problem is twofold 1. Consoles and PCs are a bit too powerful. This means everyone can make 3third person shooter, face scanned, movie gamesperiences with uncompressed assets. Software expands to fill hardware and at this point that means huge studios hiring 2 hours of credits worth of workers. Good platformers, or hell even mediocre platformers, are made by one to a few (like 10 or so) developers working together. Take Terraria for a modern day example. B. To make a platformer good you have to craft it and most of the oldfag devs have left the industry and it would take time for new ones to learn the craft. Potentially they would even need to learn to build their engine's from scratch. If AAA and even AA gaming really does crash or the price of hardware and firmware rises (or both) then we might see the environment needed for late 80s and 90s gaming to return.

>>1298661 Steamspy estimates a minimum of 20,000 sales. The console/PC split these days tends to be around 4:6, so conservatively I'll guess 32k copies, that's at $12. Accounting for things like the platform's cut and taxes, I estimate the dev earned around $210,000 on the lower end. That is not bad for a solodev.

>>1298918 You forgot that there are hundreds of very high quality platformers already. Whatever is made now is still competing with the existing library, for every system. A 2D platformer now is reinventing the wheel.

>>1298988 Yes and I'd say they are all from independent developers too. It would be hard to fill the niche of the 90s mascot platformers, especially since those niches are technically not empty. People who want a 90s Mario, Sonic, Crash, Mega Man, etc. kinda want those things and not spiritual successors, no matter how good. And the companies that own those IPs string the fans along with a slow methadone drip of content or hints of future games. If they were actually all well and dead and better yet abandoned IPs then we'd probably get a an new flush of platformers. To reiterate it, it's not quality of those new platformers you were talking about, it the visibility.

>>1298918 >This means everyone can make 3third person shooter, face scanned, movie gamesperiences with uncompressed assets so? the solution is not to do those things, not force people to use worst hardware. >Software expands to fill hardware you're confounding the issues. shit software doesn't exist because of good hardware, shit software exists because of corner cutting besides, you had shit software (spontaneous crashes, silent failures, softlocks without timeouts, 5 FPS, corruption arising out of a lack of integrity checks, hardcoded files and directories, occasional crashes when loading a level, etc.), back in the day, your brain is just filtering the junk out. to give you an example, I really liked this game called lose your marbles by segasoft. I've never been able to beat it because it crashes at random (and the bullshit difficulty spike at the very end, requiring puyo puyo-level autism to beat). not sure if it used to be the case back when I played it on windows 95 though >>1299022 >These people can't create, they can only rehash what already existed you say that like it isn't a problem in every single field. seriously, you have to spend so many years absorbing so much shit that by the time you're at the stage where you're given a job any ideas you had have dried up. this is not helped one bit by the fact that nearly everything under the sun has already been tried

>>1297584 Kinda depressing isn't it? Consolidation has destroyed the internet.

>>1298974 Depends on how much time was spent making it. If he spent 4+ years on it at that rate, he's making way below your average software engineee salary.

>>1299230 He's South American, that factors into this. That's a great wage no matter what country it is down there.

Crash 4 Tawna looks like some kind of weird granola dyke. I guess she isn't the worst design ever but if Dyke Tawna is from an alternate timeline, what happened to the original main timeline Tawna? They don't ever explain that.

>>1299128 >so? the solution is not to do those things, not force people to use worst hardware. If nothing compels developers not to do those things then they will keep doing the.

>>1299446 developers are supposed to not ship defective software the reason they get away with it is because retards have no standards and will accept anything the solution is to educate and/or purge the retards buying bad games to pressure the industry into discuntinuing its abhorrent practices (offshoring, diversity hires, replacing workers with poojeets and other third worlders, indoctrinating players and subverting cultures, etc.)

It already has, I'd even say it's starting to be saturated, it's kind of an evergreen genre even SONY relied on it. I'll namedrop a few relevant games (avoiding FPS 3D platformer because they're really not the same deal imo, also avoiding the 3D platformer walking sim subgenre because not really worth it) >Psilosybil Crash clone, with a difficulty cliff from hell. >Penny's Big Breakaway Not quite sure it's really a clone of anything, feels pretty good once you get into the flow of the movement, has poz and Take 2 so probably best not to buy >Boti: Byteland Overclocked I've not played yet but looks rather good, looks to be borrowing from 6th gen stuff >Speebot Support your local /agdg/ >Hell Pie Some anon had some rather mixed opinions on that one and since I've not yet played it I can't confirm. >Pilfer: Story of Light Clearly wants to be a confy 5th gen 3D platformer, without the graphical style >Demon Turf It's okay I guess, the 2D sprite in 3D environment thing just doesn't work for me >Corn Kidz 64 Absolutely every bit of an N64 game, pretty hard if you go for completionism >Lunistice Half Crash half 3D Sonic, pretty damn good but a bit short >Spark 2 & 3 I can't believe it's not Sonic adventure because it's actually good >Suzy Cube The most inoffensive Super Mario 3D Land / World clone there is, it's not great but fills an afternoon >Pseudoregalia The best game with a goat there is, pretty cool movement mostly >Unbox USPS deliveryman simulator >Cloubuilt Sort of what Titanfall 2 goes for in TPS form, mostly geared towards speedtism but fun nonetheless >Blue Fire Rather close to being a precision platformer in 3D >Protodroid Delta Next best thing after MML3 got cancelled, sadly you play as a nigger. >>1297730 Frogun had glaring issues as a platformer, I do have Encore downloaded but I'm in no hurry to play it.

>>1297870 >Activision the same Activision owned by Microsoft who sits on IPs or ruins them further I'm not going to hold out hope for another revival of two IP's that peaked in the 90's. Its clear that across multiple devs and millions of dollars, that very few people understand Crash and Spyro. There was maybe a handful of instances where it was close to the old devs but it never lasted. >>1299022 Its surreal seeing all that old 2019 CTR memes and media.

>>1299083 This Crash 4 sperg or another sperg?

I think this game looks really cool and I'm shocked more people aren't talking about it. Genuinely well made PS2-style platforming adventure with a fishing theme, but you use your rod to swing on poles and hitch a ride on sand creatures and stuff.

Oh yeah how the fuck could I forget >Geargrit Some guy decided to remake Jak 2 with a busty goblin protag and better combat

>>1297565 >Should [DEAD GENRE] make a comeback? Why don't we see these types of games anymore? The answer is almost always because gaming got infested with ultra-casuals who don't want to do anything but SHIFT+W and respawn >>1297730 Isn't frogun that fat muslim girl who streams?

Autistic purists refuse to count games that have anything else going for them, or not being collectathons. Gravity Rush 1 and 2 are excellent 3D platformers. Deal with it.

>>1299830 This looked less PS2 and more like those weird those 2000s experimental indie games. This game caught my eye because it was the first time I've seen sixth gen graphics mimicked. It looks excellent, I always like open world platformers and it looks like it's doing that, unless it's all instanced with a consistent skybox. >>1299839 Does it have the same awful world design? I really do not like the Jak sequels.

>>1303418 >Does it have the same awful world design? I really do not like the Jak sequels. Hard to say just yet the demo is barely the size of a single Jak 2 district, but at-least if one of your complaints was that you're forced to use vehicle to get anywhere in Jak2 this game fixes the issue by giving you some crazy on foot movement so long as you're skilled enough to chain rolljumps and ninja kicks to the ground.

>>1297684 It's basically a re-release but with options when it comes to controls and textures. You can play without tank controls but original textures if you want

>>1301367 My only criteria for cool 3D platformer is: >Moveable-as-fuck acrobatic or speedy character that does fun jumps and flips and slides and optionally wahoos >Stuff to collect (optional) If it has that, I'm sold. Oh wait there's also Kero Quest 64. This game is apparently being made by... ugh... finnish people of the... UGH... transgender mario 64 speedrunning community. [PUKES UNTIL I AM IN A COMA] The game looks kinda whatever. The character has some decent movement I guess but it's otherwise kind of a bland looking generic game.

>>1305711 >Kero 6 >Öuest 4 that sounds really autistic

Not sure if this game fits the thread, but currently I've been playing this and it's neat.

What are you currently playing?

>>1314101 Is Frog Mario out?

The most memorable aspect of the Star Revenge series was how the dev put his inkling self-insert into the game as a god over Mario. Now that he opted into making his own game series I wonder if he's going to make a new self-insert he can monetize.

Has there been anyone on if Beebz will get a fixed model for the final release of Demon Tides?

How's Anton and Coolpecker coming along?

>>1314101 Corn Kidz 64, its a cute game with a surprisingly funny plot. Also apparently in a secret level I haven't gotten to sybil (PseudoRegalia) makes a small cameo and the main character apparently has a small crush on her, or at least thinks shes attractive, so that's fun.

>>1314224 I think someone is probably going to end up modding in a new model for her, I don't see the devs replacing it. They're probably terrified of appealing to the loli crowd or giving that impression to normalfags. >>1314292 The dev is a SM64 romhack veteran so it makes sense he's taking more aspects from Mario than most other platformers, he made the Star Revenge series.

>>1314101 Marble blast ultra after an anon mentioned it in the free games thread, it's bretty nice, there's supposed to be mods and stuff but i haven't dived into that yet, i'd like to put the Steel Ball or the Tūrbo eyeball texture on my marble

>>1314263 It's dead

>>1314101 What game is this again?

>>1305711 >Oh wait there's also Kero Quest 64. This game is apparently being made by... ugh... finnish people of the... UGH... transgender mario 64 speedrunning community. [PUKES UNTIL I AM IN A COMA] I DON'T LIKE EM PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER TO TURN THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY

Bump.

>>1305711 Kero Quest 64 is WAY too close to Mario 64's movement. The tongue is not prominent enough to call it different. It's the worst game to copy, if I want more Mario 64, I'll play one of the thousands of rom hacks for it.

What do you guys think about Haste? I'm guessing the story is cringe, but I wonder if the gameplay is fun

>>1297671 >>1297684 Just wanted to say, Croc remaster is one of the coolest re-releases I've ever played. Not only it has improved controls, that alone warrants a buy, but the amount of goodies they added is insane. They even kept the glitches for the speedrunners and it loads super fast. Shame Croc 2 is kind of shit and the sequel's sale numbers will reflect that. >>1297981 Technically speaking Crash Team Rumble makes business sense since it's basically reusing all the Crash 4 assets for a multiplayer game. I really did not like Crash 4 though. >>1299364 >what happened to the original main timeline Tawna? DykeTawna is from the universe where she stayed loyal to Crash and saw both him and Coco die. Classic Tawna is a slut who jumped from man to man (in-game reason why she isn't in Crash 2 is because she's dating Pinstripe, we all know the IRL story of the feminist getting blown the fuck out), IIRC in Twinsanity she's both in the Moulin Cortex gag and supposedly she was going to be Dingodile's date.

>>1331919 >Technically speaking Crash Team Rumble makes business sense since it's basically reusing all the Crash 4 assets for a multiplayer game. Turning the Crash IP into a multiplayer game only makes sense if you're doing something that compliments it like a kart racer. But whos going to invest in a game thats a MOBA? When theres others and when the fandom mostly plays these games for the adventuring or humor aspects like the originals or some PS2 era games? This is the same issue they ran into when the IP died originally and its funny they didn't realize it once during development. >I really did not like Crash 4 though. Same. From the visuals and general direction of the franchise it just did a huge disservice. Not to mention the completionism aspect, which was always a highlight of previous games.

Anyone else hyped for Gex Trilogy?

>>1333016 Crash 4 would've been better if they didn't bloat the game to hell.

>>1333016 >Turning the Crash IP into a multiplayer game only makes sense if you're doing something that compliments it like a kart racer It's one extra game developed on peanuts and the franchise just flopped their possible return to form, you'd be stupid not to throw a quick cash grab with the assets. In general, most game studios throwing away their old assets seems like such a stupid move. >But whos going to invest in a game thats a MOBA? I believe there's more people playing the shitty multiplayer game than the full price single player one. We're back at the Skullgirls vs Skullgirls Mobile debate, just cause they don't speak up (because they're either toddler or couldn't care less about quality) doesn't mean that they're not there as customers. >When theres others and when the fandom mostly plays these games for the adventuring or humor aspects like the originals or some PS2 era games? This is the same issue they ran into when the IP died originally and its funny they didn't realize it once during development. That's kind of the issue when you follow the numbers or trendy people rather than your fans. It's doubly funny because I remember a lot of people dropping Crash once it got to the Twinsanity era due to the radical shift in humor from 80s-90s cartoons to the edgier, toilety kind, then those games developing their own fanbase who in turn dropped Crash during the Skylander phase. >>1356415 It's the only game where the best mods available remove content. The devs should have split most levels in two or at least give you more ways to destroy multiple crates at once.

>>1305711 Try out Gravity Rush(es) someday. It's Keiichiro Toyama's creator's most crazy and biggest adventures.

>>1331919 >DykeTawna is from the universe where she stayed loyal to Crash Incorrect. She comes from the "Tawnaverse" where she's the main character...And failed so fucking hard that not only were her Crash and Coco killed but her universe got taken over by Femtropy. Fuck I'm glad Fagtivision fired all the devs responsible for this mess. That's what these fuckers get for killing off OG Tawna.

>>1356055 Not really, the Gex games aren't all that great. They're mostly remembered for ironic memes. Also >Limited Run Games Hardest of passes.

>>1314101 Sonic 3D Blast endlessly fascinates me. I've played it through like 20 times already.

>>1356820 >It's one extra game developed on peanuts and the franchise just flopped their possible return to form, you'd be stupid not to throw a quick cash grab with the assets. In general, most game studios throwing away their old assets seems like such a stupid move. I'm not surprised they did something so devoid of love or creativity for the IP but TFB created entirely new assets and overwrote the entire aesthetic established by the remakes, which were done by people who had attempted to adhere to the classic designs or details during the PS2 era. You had almost near perfect synergy from CTR:NF but then they just redesigned the world and tone of Crash from scratch. >I believe there's more people playing the shitty multiplayer game than the full price single player one. Its last "content" update was last year and theres been no indication of sales. I seriously doubt it made a profit. >That's kind of the issue when you follow the numbers or trendy people rather than your fans. It's doubly funny because I remember a lot of people dropping Crash once it got to the Twinsanity era due to the radical shift in humor from 80s-90s cartoons to the edgier, toilety kind, then those games developing their own fanbase who in turn dropped Crash The PS2 era had both new fans and retained older fans who were growing up with the kind of humor shown in games like Twinsanity or the latter entries. It got really bad when Radical started to make their trilogy, because now they turned into neurotic sociopaths or in Crash's case, a literal jibbering idiot. The fact of the matter is you can't expect people to stand by so many inconsistent, tone-deaf decisions for the IP. They need consistency. You never see Nintendo or Sega doing glaring, baffling changes to the designs and overall tone of Mario or Sonic. Theres been updates but they've found their audience and know what they want. Crash hasn't managed to conserve a singular design for more than 4 years.

>>1363223 >you can't expect people to stand by so many inconsistent, tone-deaf decisions for the IP. That hasn't stopped Sonic though to be fair, nothing seems to stop Sonic. The shift from Adventure to Meta/Colors to Boom then whatever Forces tried to do was jarring. Yet, Sonic survives these follies. Crash however cannot. He is just one "underperforming" game away from being put back into the closet. TFB really should have just stuck with the classic designs. Not only would it have been cheaper but were any of the post-PS1 designs any good?

>>1363313 >Yet, Sonic survives these follies. many reasons >sonic characters are more fleshed out and actually have interactions and personalities. this began as early as the dreamcast era. meanwhile crash himself is mute even. you don't know much about his world other than the fact that you need to collect gems and power crystals. twinsanity had something going but we all know ~50% of the game is missing. even mario has some sort of integrated setting/dialogue/story (see sm64. the letter at the beginning, the toads scattered throughout the castle, bowser. or paper mario even) >sonic is more appealing/relatable to kids. he's a free spirit/freedom-fighting hero. the key is that shonenshit attracts the kids. meanwhile crash has some serious wacky mascot avatar vibes and that's it. it's fun, but it's not multimedia/crossover franchise material not saying they should try to retcon everything to make crash a household name. just explaining >sonic fangames and community autism. you can't deny fans have done a considerable amount of heavy lifting for sega, especially during the more tumultous periods like 06~sth4 and boom. hell, mania is the highest-rated sonic game bar cd (and that's despite sega forcing the team to recycle half the zones)

>>1299128 >you say that like it isn't a problem in every single field. seriously, you have to spend so many years absorbing so much shit that by the time you're at the stage where you're given a job any ideas you had have dried up. this is not helped one bit by the fact that nearly everything under the sun has already been tried Yet back then new genres were created. If you want to get autistic, you can say they were created through iteration, but still, it happened. Yeah, Crash is Sonic with the camera pointed at his ass instead of his side, but that's more new than anything we've gotten in two or three generations now. >>1301367 Gravity Rush 1 and 2 are perhaps my favorite games in the last 15 years, but they aren't platformers. They're not about jumping on platforms. They're cool, I don't know what else to call them due to their rather unique gameplay, but they aren't platformers. >>1331919 That explanation for what Tawna did after Crash 1 isn't "in-game," it's only in a short manga. Naughty Dog devs did mention it back in the day on their website and stuff, but it's not "in-game." >>1359493 I hope you've downloaded the Director's Cut mod. It's actually made by the original director of the game, and it's great. >>1363313 >>1410936 Sonic gets a zillion games, and you posted Black Knight, a Wii motion controls spinoff. When there are this many games, one bad one isn't a big deal. Meanwhile, Crash fans waited 10-20 years for Crash 4, and they got a bunch of SJW propaganda made to spite people who liked the original game. And yeah, I'll defend the early 2000s Crash games, but they are obviously a huge step down from the "real" Crash games. And the late 2000s Crash games? Just forget about those. Everyone hates them. Then we get two remakes, just to tease, and when a new game finally comes out, it's Crash 4. So this franchise has been killed three times. There hasn't been a really great new game since 1999. There hasn't even been a sort of okay new game since 2004. So yeah, if you want to bring it back, you need to actually try to make a good new game. But they weren't trying to make a good game with Crash 4. They were trying to make a game that made you realize Crash 1 was offensive and you should feel bad for liking it. So what a surprise that people who don't like one of the few good games in the series can't make a good game in that series.

>>1411502 to be honest i really liked twinsanity's direction. the hub levels were fun despite being plagued with problems though (just small pockets with a side puzzle and/or boxes, with height fall limits to stop cheesing and sequence breaks)

>>1412029 I love Twinsanity, but the fans know better than anyone that it's completely half baked.

>>1412029 >>1412723 That's why I can give Twinsanity a pass. The people who enjoy it (myself included) don't sugarcoat the shitty aspects of it. The game is a fucking mess of lost potential.

>>1412029 >>1412723 Twinsanity has alot of charm for its short length, bugs, glitches and platforming controls or segments. Personally the focus on Cortex's characterization, the music, artistic direction and jokes are what sells it for me enough for a replay each year. But things like Crash's ghoulish smile and declining intelligence, no real incentive to collect gems/crystals outside of concept art photos don't do it any favors. Yeah the devs had some interesting ideas, but they had years to put those ideas in the game itself and failed. Don't get me started on other minor things like dying after colliding with certain static objects or Aku Aku masks not protecting you from TNT or Nitro crates.

>>1363223 >You had almost near perfect synergy from CTR:NF but then they just redesigned the world and tone of Crash from scratch. I think that the logic behind redesigning everything is that it was supposed to help the game stand out compared to the other titles and show that this is a NEW Crash, not the same old one. Granted, I still don't think they needed to do that either. IMO TFB should have focused on making a game feel as much as a cartoon as possible - to this day I think Crash 4's cutscenes look incredible despite the boring story and unfunny dialogues. >Its last "content" update was last year and theres been no indication of sales. I seriously doubt it made a profit. Nah, for how cheap it looks and feels, it definitely paid for itself. Not significantly, mind you, but certainly they recovered server costs and then some. >The fact of the matter is you can't expect people to stand by so many inconsistent, tone-deaf decisions for the IP. Untrue, "fans" will keep eating whatever you throw at them. Advance Wars Rebooty is one of the worst games in the franchise (shoutout to the music department though singlehandedly carrying the project) but Nintendrones who were fans of the Nintendo Wars series bought it in droves, despite bugs, subpar multiplayer support (need I remind you this is a multiplayer game), censorship and constant delays. Fans will buy piles of excrement if you put That One Guy/Thing they like on it. >Crash hasn't managed to conserve a singular design for more than 4 years. Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing, helps the game stand out when next to each other. Problem is that it's very costly to keep redesigning shit. I feel that the biggest issue with Crash is that from day 1 the gameplay has been the least consistent part of the series. Mario jumps, and you can expect the entire world to revolve around that. Sonic is fast, similar thing. What does Crash do consistently? Crates and the hub world are the only thing that truly define all games, and they keep fucking up both of them. Naughty Dog perfected it in 2, then made 3 full of gimmicky levels to flex on other games, CTR had such a perfect racing game loop (please visit the CTR thread >>1112060) that decades later people keep reviving the base game with mods or speedruns or pc ports. I can't even say that the franchise is based on "humor", since the only game that truly feels like a shitpost is Twinsanity. >>1412743 It's cause the focus of the game is the humor. The devs realized their game had a scope creep and was riddled with bugs, so rather than make it good they just had fun with it. It's better to be memorable and shitty than boring and safe to be honest. No one would have cared about stuff like No More Heroes if Grasshopper wasted more time with fine tuning the bad mechanics over making interesting characters.

>>1414292 >"fans" will keep eating whatever you throw at them. Evidently not, as seen with how Crash 4 did so badly that they cancelled the planned TV series (and all the other evidence posted by the "Crash 4 autist" that I saw in some other thread yesterday but am too lazy to look for now). Fans will buy a lot, they'll buy remakes of games they've already owned for 20 years, but they won't buy games that go out of their way to change things that people liked about the original, due to the developers not being fans, but actually finding the original offensive. And they had to do it in an extremely blatant way. Like yeah, Sonic changed Amy's personality, clearly because SJWs find it offensive, but it's not evident at first glance. You need to actually view the material, and eventually you notice she isn't in love with Sonic anymore. If Amy got turned into some bluehaired bulldyke, you can bet Sonic fans would be mad. You saw what happened when they turned Sonic's arms blue. The other factor is that Crash is no Sonic, and he's certainly no Mario. Peach can be turned into a smug arrogant bitch in the movie, and casuals will overlook it, because Mario has been the most recognizable character in the world since the 1980s. Crash Bandicoot is a franchise that died some time between 1999 and 2004. It was only big for three to eight years. It doesn't have enough casual fans that will ignore this type of thing. Plus, at least in the Mario movie, Peach looked the same, except for her smug resting bitchface. >What does Crash do consistently? 3D platforming through obstacle courses where you move away from or toward the camera. Yes, there are 2D (almost) levels and gimmick levels, but obviously the main core of the series is the 3D platforming levels. When the first game was coming out, it was the ability to move into and out of the screen that was the big new thing that sold the game. It's 3D obstacle courses.

>>1414109 >>1412723 >>1412743 this might shock you, but did you know twinsanity was rushed out the door like half a year before it was finished? >>1414292 advance war fans hated the numake. it was a slap in the face >Again, it's not necessarily a bad thing it is when you make the characters uglier. what they did to coco was bad enough in NST, but they really went out of their way to completely destroy her sex appeal in 4 >>1414996 crash died because jewniversal killed it. naughty dog was more than willing ot keep at it, but jewniversal demanded millions to let them continue working on the games, so naturally the deal fell through. as a result, the series bounced between multiple devs, leading to games with mediocre levels quality. to make things worse, jewniversal's greed in rushing out 2 unfinished games for christmas put off a significant chunk of the fanbase. the final nail in the coffin was the 2 'titans' crash games that had nothing to do with crash, which were a slap across the face of the few fans that were left by that point. it was akin to having a fifa game where players perform ballet dances instead of playing soccer.

>>1417370 >this might shock you, but did you know twinsanity was rushed out the door like half a year before it was finished? Yes. I also know they had to restart development cause Ratchet & Clank ate their lunch. Also weird that Dingodile was originally on a date with Tawna. https://youtu.be/6bRIPvEvM4w?si=6umdUHsNQyNrjEZ9 Crash keeps getting cucked.

>>1417667 >Also weird that Dingodile was originally on a date with Tawna. Not really she's a turboslut.

>>1418273 Maybe in Twinsanity but before that, naw. Even the whole Pinstripe thing wasn't mentioned until Wrath i.e. post-Naughty dog.

>>1418692 Could've sworn the pinstripe thing was from CTR.

>>1418702 Not that I know of, nope. Last time Tawna was seen in the Naughty Dog games was in Crash 3.

What are some good 3D platformers from the last 4-6 years? There are a lot of obscure indie titles in the space I probably haven't heard of. Blazing Dynamo never ever

>>1414292 >I think that the logic behind redesigning everything is that it was supposed to help the game stand out compared to the other titles and show that this is a NEW Crash, not the same old one. They should've learned from history then, because in the case of Crash completely altering his iconic look and world is going to divide fans. >Nah, for how cheap it looks and feels, it definitely paid for itself. Not significantly, mind you, but certainly they recovered server costs and then some. Activision gleefully reported sales for the N. Sane Trilogy, they've yet to do so for Rumble. Nobody paid attention to it or wanted it, even if it cost very little to make, not to mention all the seasonal content released and planned that never came to fruition. >Untrue, "fans" will keep eating whatever you throw at them. Of all the franchises to use this rhetoric for you choose CB or Spyro, when they've gotten heavy scrutiny for gameplay changes alone much less how the characters look. >>1418702 Technically its from a manga tie-in to Crash Bandicoot 2. First brought to real attention from Wrath of Cortex's guidebook.

>>1420500 >in the case of Crash completely altering his iconic look and world is going to divide fans. if merely making a redesign caused people to riot then everyone would have gone apeshit at the mere sight of twinsanity's 2d cartoon art. the problem is they make stuff fugly and it shows >when they've gotten heavy scrutiny for gameplay changes alone because they changed fundamental mechanics for no fucking reason despite it being a remake. the pill-shaped hitbox really fucks with your muscle memory. meanwhile beenox kept the reserves and sacred fire autism in nitro fueled and even encouraged it, so there were no complaints from fans there as for the spyro remakes, i don't remember there being any widespread outcry over the gameplay

>>1421093 Twinsanity's everything was divisive at the time. It's just that mascot platformers were in the decline and Crash already lost its luster due to it no longer being a tool in the console wars. And thus sales declined which is why Radical was given the right to do whatever they wanted. To their credit, they did turn things around but at a great cost.

>>1418692 >Maybe in Twinsanity but before that, naw. Even the whole Pinstripe thing wasn't mentioned until Wrath i.e. post-Naughty dog. Where was it mentioned anywhere in Wrath? I first learned about it from Naughty Dog's website back in the late '90s, and later I learned that it was in a tie-in manga to Crash 2. In it, Tawna breaking up with him is what motivates Crash to work out, which is used to explain why he has new moves in Crash 2. I always figured it was an idea Naughty Dog came up with, but never put into the actual games or manuals. But it was on their website, and in a manga. >>1421093 Twinsanity's redesigns were much more minor. A lot more of those designs could be justified as taking advantage of having more polygons. Coco was pretty different, I suppose, but she was also barely in the game. Then Activision changed the designs heavily with Titans, and look how that turned out. At least with that it didn't have the political motivations and implications. >>1421093 The N. Sane Trilogy hitbox is a minor thing only autists noticed (and I'm definitely one of those autists, but still). Anon was clearly referring to when Titans changed Crash gameplay into a beat em up. >>1421744 I'm willing to bet the sales of Titans and Mutant were really just helped by being on Wii. The sales were probably in spite of the drastic redesign of both visuals and gameplay. There were a zillion eight year old casuals that got Wiis for Christmas who might vaguely recognize Crash but not have the age or experience to care about if the game was actually as good as previous ones.

>>1424940 >Where was it mentioned anywhere in Wrath? Not inside the game but in the Official Strategy Guide (back when those were a thing). Has a whole "history of Crash Bandicoot" thing. I keep hearing that the old Naughty Dog website mentioned something but I've seen no evidence that was ever the case. Nothing on the wayback machine either so I think that's just untrue. >I'm willing to bet the sales of Titans and Mutant were really just helped by being on Wii. Yeah, you can ignore those sales as that's sales from: PS2, Wii, Xbox360, GBA, and DS all rolled into one. It only looks good until you divide it by platform.

This was before they changed direction with Twinsanity.

>>1425118 >I keep hearing that the old Naughty Dog website mentioned something but I've seen no evidence that was ever the case. Nothing on the wayback machine either so I think that's just untrue. I distinctly remember it. You can think it's untrue, but it was there. I was a mega Crash autist since day 1, and even though basically all they had on their website was some profiles and a simple matching game, I was on that shit all the time. I remember being so disappointed when I learned about Jak & Daxter on that website, because I figured it meant no more Crash. In a way, I was right.

>>1425228 The only mention of Tawna in the old Naughty Dog website was with her concept art. And going by the text, it sounds like Naughty Dog was unhappy at how she was toned down. In an unrelated bit, Coco art.

>>1425118 >>1425130 I fucking love PS1/2 era renders that look nothing like the in-game models, I wish we had games that looked more like that right now. Does Melee count? >>1420500 >Technically its from a manga tie-in to Crash Bandicoot 2. Holy shit I just remembered about this. Isn't it unfinished? >>1421093 >the pill-shaped hitbox really fucks with your muscle memory I think this complaint is mostly for Crash 1 where you had much less tools to maneuver the levels. I didn't find it as tough in 2 or 3 but it's mostly cause your moveset lets you be much floatier. Still though, such a random, pointless way to change things around. >meanwhile beenox kept the reserves and sacred fire autism in nitro fueled and even encouraged it, so there were no complaints from fans there Not a pro/online player must I've heard from most people who play at a higher level is that the physics are absolutely fucked, so it's not as fun as in the original to get time trials records, and the multiplayer is basically a single player experience until you slightly graze a wall or lag makes you miss the 539th mini turbo and you're suddenly last place.

>>1425118 >>1425130 Besides the bible of Crash 1, these are also the only pieces of text to mention that Cortex and N. Brio are international, wanted criminals and terrorists. Always thought that was funny in comparison to how incompetent or bumbling they are in the games.

With Sony bumming off Patapon and Everybody's Golf to third party studio for true multiplat release ( >>1083321 ) , the possibility of an Ape Escape HD Trilogy have increased. 1: Is there even a studio that could pull off the remake anymore? 2: Besides letting you play Sayaka in every game's levels and multi-audio, what non-graphical enhancements could be made to each game?

>>1427799 i've never played nf so i wouldn't know how badly they've butchered physics. guess i'm glad fans decided to focus on the ps1 original >the multiplayer is basically a single player experience until you slightly graze a wall or lag makes you miss the 539th mini turbo and you're suddenly last place. isn't that every single racing game? just look at how f-zero 99 added crutches so people can catch up

>>1431287 CTR:NF's multiplayer had netcode problems and there was always a chance of encountering hardcore autists who were the hosts of that particular race, would get hit once and leave the race.

>>1429624 Why are Ape Escape 3 fags, so functionally retaraded; if Sony ever decided to do anything, they'd censor the loli to shit and water down the controls. God help you Ape Escape fans, if Sony ever thinks about making a new one because it'd rekill the series like Lost Planet 3.

>>1433161 Lost Planet 3 got a follow up. It's pretty fun.

>>1433226 >Follow up My memory isn't great but I remember that coming out about the same time as its own thing.

>>1433161 It's likely just one guy who is obsessed with that one loli. He gives the impression that he doesn't even like the overall series that much, but just that one loli. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine loli, but IMO Ape Escape 3 is still the least-best of the main trilogy. The other two certainly don't deserve to be as ignored as Ape Escape 3 "fans" (or just this one vocal "fan") make them.

New Shantae confirmed on cuckchan.

>>1548697 >1994 on pants Cool reference. That was the year Erin Bell created Shantae. Of course, the first actual game was released in 2002.

>>1548697 Did she cut her hair but her genie powers said fuck you and went digital?

>>1549115 She's probably gotten pulled into some adventure in a virtual world, maybe the antagonist cut her hair thinking she would be unable to fight back, but she was given some kind of electro-hair to replace it by some new ally. It will be interesting to see what kind of aesthetic/style the game has artistically.

>>1297565 The industry doesn't understand what made them successful, which is why they struggle to recreate or evolve platformers to meet the expectations of current target audiences beyond mere fanboys.

I don't consider Crash a true classic deserving of the same high praise reserved for Sonic and Mario. I thought his games were good but they were in no way masterpieces, they were far too simplistic and limited to deserve to be considered all-time greats. Even Pac-Man was more ambitious in his first 3D platformer. I like Spyro quite a lot, at least the original Spyro trilogy, and I'm disappointed he never hit that high again. The PS2 games should've been good but they just ended up being a confused mess of lore and shitty designs. What I really want to know is when we are getting a new Ganbare Goemon game. This is the one franchise I want to come back, I love Goemon, and it was a huge series in Japan. Then one day it just disappeared never to return. I don't know why Konami didn't localize more of them here, I would have loved to play the DS game. I know we got that new Bakeru game, and it's good, but I just don't feel it's the same.

I enjoyed the Spyro Reignited Trilogy.

>>1557729 I do too. Still think the original had a better aesthetic though.

>>1297981 >no Switch or PC version >premium pricing >dogwater OC What were they thinking?

>>1557399 It's dead anon, but it's okay, they finished it up. The first step in getting over loss, is acceptance.

>>1557399 >(Crash games) were far too simplistic and limited to deserve to be considered all-time greats. You don't know what you're talking about. They're very intricate. Very careful level design. Maybe a little bit less in Crash 2 (which I think is why it's the most popular, it's more casual friendly), but even there it's still very carefully and well made. I'm mega autistic for Sonic, but the four real Crash games are easily as good as even the best Sonic games. Try the Time Trials in Crash 3. Getting good and completing the hardest challenges will show you just how carefully those games were made. Even Crash 1 has that, but the original version didn't give you a reward for mastering it. The remake did, though, when it added Time Trials, and it made me realize that even though it was one of my favorite games, I never really appreciated how good it actually was. Spyro is a pretty different type of game, more of a collectathon than a platformer, but I appreciate that it does do more platforming than something like Banjo. That feeling of gliding and charging and using the two in combo to reach spots that seem impossible at first glance adds a lot of fun that a lot of "walk around and collect stuff" games don't have. I do wanna get into Goemon more, but I'm autistic and want to start with the first one, and when I try those early ones I can't figure out what the fuck I'm supposed to do. It's not a platformer. The N64 ones look pretty awesome, but I wanna play the originals first. >>1557729 For all the complaints about the Crash remakes, at least they had Time Trials in Crash 1 and 2, and playable Coco. The Spyro remakes didn't have any original content. It was just the same thing only now it wasn't actually on the disc, and the designs were almost all made worse. That said, I still 100%ed all three because my brother bought it and it was a good excuse to play Spyro again.

>>1562502 >You don't know what you're talking about. They're very intricate. Very careful level design. I don't doubt that but what I mean to say is that Crash has only ever been "good". I wouldn't call Crash's games genre-defining masterpieces that changed the landscape of games as a whole. Mario & Sonic are titans whose impact has been felt across generations, Crash was just a third one who showed up and left his little footprint in the continental shift caused by those other two. I'd definitely place him above characters like Bubsy and Gex, but the main reason people know about him is because of his temporary association with PlayStation that made him the unofficial third mascot. It didn't help that he has a tendency to disappear for decades and his torch is only kept lit by a few dedicated fans. >I do wanna get into Goemon more, but I'm autistic and want to start with the first one, and when I try those early ones I can't figure out what the fuck I'm supposed to do. It's not a platformer. The N64 ones look pretty awesome, but I wanna play the originals first. Start where I started, with the SNES. The west's first exposure to Goemon was in the SNES game Legend of the Mystical Ninja (or Ganbare Goemon: Yukihime Kyūshutsu Emaki). Goemon's games are very self-contained and episodic so you can jump into pretty much any game in the series and use that as your introduction to the characters. It's just part of Goemon's whimsical cartoon aesthetic. But if you wanna go in chronological order start with the game that introduced us westerners to it. They are all fantastic games and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Also fan translation romhacks exist for the other SNES games that weren't released here.

>>1562774 >I wouldn't call Crash's games genre-defining masterpieces that changed the landscape of games as a whole. If you mean to the degree of Mario and Sonic, then yeah. Crash is a distant third. His franchise is dead, after all. And it's died like three different times. But I would say that being the PS mascot isn't the only reason people know about him. It helped, but also the games are top notch. In terms of influence, I'd argue they seemed to influence Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Crash was essentially the first 3D Sonic game. The developers even called it "Sonic's Ass Game" because it played like a Sonic game but you're looking at his ass the whole time. It was the first 3D platformer that was more of an obstacle course than an open field to explore, and Sonic went on to use that a little over two years later in Sonic Adventure. Sonic Adventure 2 would go way more into that, as it did away with the open areas entirely. And there were a bunch of Crash ripoffs back in the day. Donald Duck: Goin' Quackers, that one M&Ms game. It was pretty influential at the time. Jak & Daxter obviously is basically Crash but all the levels are spokes out of a few central hubs. But by the time of Jak II 3D platformers were basically dying off, and since then Mario and Sonic have been some of the only ones left. Ratchet switched to focusing more on shooting, so even that one hardly counts anymore. (But it does generally use Crash style obstacle courses rather than Mario style open fields.)

>Crash was essentially the first 3D Sonic game. Yes and no. Sonic Team considers the 3d special stages to be the origin of 3d Sonic gameplay. It may not be polygonal 3d but yes, Sonic is moving in three dimensions via auto runner where you see only his ass. Comes in open world CD version and linear Sonic 2 type obstacle courses. Crash was designed with Sonic in mind but he's not Sonic. Just another pretender to the throne. He could've been something but fate is cruel.

>>1562802 >And there were a bunch of Crash ripoffs back in the day Smug pic related is my favorite of this category.

>>1562774 >Mario & Sonic are titans whose impact has been felt across generations Ever since I started paying attention to Nintendo, it's felt like they skirted by on a lot of stuff from just name recognition alone and that there might have been others who already did it but everyone knows and jumps on Nintendo games. >Sonic Isn't he in the same position as Crash but there's just something about his games that speaks to the autistic horde? >Gex I had more fun but I guess that's partly from Deep Cover Gecko feeling more like a world than the other platformers.

>>1563712 >year after year Besides the movies, what has been coming out? Last I heard was Sonic Prime but that was cursed as a Netflix cartoon. As for games, hasn't every game for the past 8 years short of Frontier, Mania, and Generations Shadow (I don't really know anything about this one; is it just Shadow and a couple levels tacted on or what) bombed? I honestly don't see Crossworlds being watered down at best. >As a brand, Sonic has never been stronger It only looks stronger because of the movie getting normies talking about Sonic but I don't think that many translated into sales for the games except for maybe the last Generations, because it had Shadow in it. >Crash is largely irrelevant only really kept alive by millennial nostalgia I'd say the same for Sonic since the only games that stick with people were the first games back on Genesis, and Adventure. Every thing else was either shit or a blip at most throughout the years, to the point that Sega sounded like they were thinking about retiring their autism magnet.

>>1564201 They haven't bombed at all and have been getting a rather significant return on investment considering how much it cost to make them. Sonic x Shadow Generations is mostly a re-release of Sonic Gens, but adds a Shadow chapter and a bunch of levels with him and it sold 2.3 million. Sonic Frontiers sold 5 million last I checked. Sonic Superstars sold 2 and a half million. Sonic is not at all irrelevant because kids are eating up his media and merch and the movies are very popular. Also everything else is not shit and this is a meme opinion, please actually play the games instead of letting IGN cloud your mind.

Imagine trying to argue that Sonic is in the same position as Crash who is not only certified dead thanks to a sideshaved feminist revision of a classic character but also downplaying all the side content Sonic has that Crash could never get. You can insult the Sonic audience as a bunch of "autists" but that's betters than having ZERO AUDIENCE like Crash at the moment. Sonic is multimedia for a reason. Games, movies, Comics, various game tie-ins, and an ongoing Manga. Crash couldn't even get just one of the aforementioned running proper. Hell, his best success was derp, Nostalgia. That thing people accuse Sonic of all the time. And this is the crux of things: Sonic isn't just some nostalgia act. Much like Mario, he has actual staying power. Crash never had that. It only took one bad game for him to get the boot. Crash draws no dimes. At best he had a snarky marketing campaign fueled by console wars. No dimes. Crash draws no dimes.

>>1564700 Now now, I don't think Nu-Tawna killed the franchise, I think it more had to do with corporate incompetence. Activision sat on Crash for years with no new game and then Xbox bought them and continued the trend of no new game. I think Nu-Tawna would be fine if they had just said she was a different character. Why does she gotta be Tawna? They don't even adequately explain what happened to the original prime universe Tawna.

>>1564710 "Corporate Incompetence" is why Nu-Tawna exists in the first place. If you ask any Crash fan if they'd like to play as Tawna in a game, the answer will either be "Yes" or "Meh, whatever". It's the easiest of easiest wins but they didn't do that. Instead they gave the character an awful redesign and made up some BS story about her being from an alternate timeline where she's the heroine while Crash is her sidekick. No one wants that. Out of all the Crash cast, only two characters could carry games on their own: Crash and Cortex. None of the other cast, not even Coco, can carry a title. I point this out cause I have a sneaking suspicion that TFB wanted to replace Crash with their OC version of Tawna similar to how Rivet in Ratchet and Clank was intended to get her own game down the line. >They don't even adequately explain what happened to the original prime universe Tawna Crash 4 isn't the prime universe. And the OG version of Tawna in 4 is DEAD. No middle ground for that. She's just dead. The only way for it to be otherwise would've been to have her in the first bonus room in Crash 4. https://x.com/CrashOnTheRun/status/1390018709637328896#m On the Run showed they were doing the multiverse bit as an excuse to ignore canon. Can't say I blame them but I'd rather they just retcon the retardation instead of doing multi-verse "nothing matters" nonsense.

I think the Tawna sperg(s?) should be deleted on sight like GCtard was, holy fuck dude I hate the design too but ''holy shit' shut up already.

>>1564243 >Also everything else is not shit and this is a meme opinion, please actually play the games instead of letting IGN cloud your mind. <defending Sonic Heroes <Sonic Colors

>>1564856 And your opinion of the current state (or lack thereof) of the Crash Bandicoot franchise is what exactly?

>>1563309 >(Nintendo) skirted by on a lot of stuff from just name recognition alone and that there might have been others who already did it but everyone knows and jumps on Nintendo games. Mario games (and most of their other first party games) are always top notch. I love Sonic and Crash, but obviously the vast majority of both of those franchises consists of games whose quality doesn't come anywhere near that of the average Mario game. As for their influence, while you might be able to find a couple of side scrolling platformers before Super Mario Bros., I think it's clear that that game's influence really changed the landscape. Games before SMB are generally very different in design than games after. Even Donkey Kong, with its countless imitators, has that to a degree. Maybe not to the degree of Pac-Man, but still pretty significant. And while Mario 64 isn't the first 3D platformer (I do love Jumping Flash), it's hard to argue that its specific style wasn't incredibly influential. That said, Crash was early enough that it didn't copy Mario 64, and I really appreciate that. My favorite levels of Mario 64 are the Bowser levels anyway, which are obstacle courses like Crash. But I'd argue Crash does them better because it's designed entirely around that type of level. Also, as far as I can tell, Super Mario Kart invented kart racers, the best kind of racers. It was largely a spiritual sequel to F-Zero, but that was another Nintendo game. That was largely a sequel to F1 Race, another Nintendo game (though developed by HAL). But yeah, if you go back further they're ripping off Pole Position and, even further than that, Sega's Happy Days tie-in game, The Fonz. But I think you'd be hard pressed to argue Super Mario Kart didn't innovate over Pole Position or The Fonz. >Isn't (Sonic) in the same position as Crash but there's just something about his games that speaks to the autistic horde? Sonic's games vary in quality and rarely are as good as Mario (though some are definitely in the same league), but most of them are definitely better than most Crash games. Crash has four excellent games from the '90s, a few mediocre games from the early 2000s, a few shit games from the late 2000s, an okay remake, and a shitty SJW sequel. And then a terrible multiplayer online service game which shouldn't even be mentioned. Sonic is way better than that. I'd never argue that any game since Sonic Adventure 2 is as good as the Mario games coming out at the time, but they're all better than any Crash games coming out at the time. (But the actual good Crash games are as good as the best Mario and Sonic games.) >Gex I do agree that Gex is pretty underrated these days, but Gex 1 isn't even a game anyone really remembers. Gex 2 and 3 are the ones people care about, and I'd have a hard time saying they're quite as good as Mario 64 or Crash. I think they're helped significantly by the fact that Gex is hilarious. Sonic was supposed to have personality, and Crash after him, but Gex has tons of personality and makes his predecessors seem as boring as Mario. And nowadays people would complain about him talking too much, but I don't give a fuck. Austin Powers quotes are hilarious, and I the Gex games have a sense of irony to them anyway. He's supposed to be a loser couch potato. The joke isn't just the movie references, it's the personality of the guy who would say them so damn much. >>1563712 >As a brand, Sonic has never been stronger. You don't remember the early '90s, when Sonic had two cartoons on at the same time, pretty much single-handedly made a whole console successful (notice how the Saturn, with no Sonic game, failed), and managed to get away with the bullshit of selling one game for the price of two (Sonic 3 & Knuckles), because the games were just that successful. >>1564201 >As for games, hasn't every game for the past 8 years short of Frontier, Mania, and Generations Shadow (I don't really know anything about this one; is it just Shadow and a couple levels tacted on or what) bombed? Those are the only mainline games in the last few years. Except Superstars. Did that bomb? I thought it was pretty good. As for the games between Adventure 2 and Mania, you have Heroes, Shadow, '06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, Boom, and Forces. Heroes sold very well (though I'm not gonna argue it's much beyond mediocre), as did Colors (though I think that was just because it was on the Wii, and modern audiences don't like it as much), and Generations did extremely well. Meanwhile, lots of successful handheld games were coming out. Rush, Rush Adventure, Colors (DS), Generations (3DS), and even Boom (3DS) all did very well. So yeah, Sonic has its share of less successful games (though I'd say only '06 and Boom Wii U are really that bad), but still, most of its games are decent enough, and some are great. That puts it above 21st century Crash, which has a couple of decent games, a bunch of bad games, and no great games. >>1564700 >It only took one bad game for him to get the boot. No, Crash had 20 years of bad games. I'll defend Wrath of Cortex, the GBA games, and Twinsanity, but they're really just mediocre. The rest are all awful. There were remakes that got people hopeful, but then they finally did a new game that was supposed to be a return to form, and it was SJW trash that killed the franchise yet again. But it was the final nail in the coffin. A coffin that was already dug up and re-opened. This nail was only closing it again. >>1564710 >I think infesting Crash with a sideshaved bluehair that exists just to make Crash look like a chump and counteract the influence of the big tittied parody of damsels in distress from the original game would have been fine if they gave her a different name. >>1564856 >Three short posts (one agreeing with your love for SJWism) discussing a topic, which is directly answering the previous question of why a video game revival failed >They should be deleted on sight! Just go back to halfchan, then you can enjoy your SJW echochamber, where all the no-no opinions are banned. Then you never have to be reminded that some people don't just want to eat up whatever shit corporations push out. >>1565040 Both those games sold extremely well. Colors in particular also got great reception from (((critics))) and "fans" at the time. But yeah, I do think both games are very mediocre, and Colors only got away with it because it was a Nintendo exclusive for people who were largely given a bunch of shovelware minigame collections and were starved for real games. (Most Wii games weren't Super Mario Galaxy.) Plus, they were Nintendo people, who never liked Sonic in the first place. Same reason I think Heroes and even Advance/Rush get as much leeway as they do. They pretend that these games are more like "Classic Sonic," but that couldn't be further from the truth. But they never really liked the old Sonic games either. They maybe have vague memories of playing them at a friend's house, and maybe of watching the TV shows. But obviously Heroes, Advance/Rush, and Colors all play very little like the original games (Colors the least of all).

>>1564700 Sonic only survives because he lucks out in a good game after a ton of shit, before going back to shit. >Comics Are IDW's even good? Didn't they piss away easy shit like Transformers and GI Joe? >movies I'll never understand how they're doing so well while being so boring but it'll be interesting to see how they can figure out how to move forward, now that they've reached the last real bit of nostalgia bait. >various game tie-ins After everything you've said, everything else is just merchandising. >Sonic isn't just some nostalgia act. Much like Mario, he has actual staying power Sonic, like I said, was outright gonna die, with Sega betting the horse on Frontiers. Had they failed with Frontiers like the dozen of games before it, and Paramount kept the original design of Sonic, he'd be up in heaven with Crash, Mega Man, Banjo, and Conker. Mark my words, this moment in time is just a stay of execution and in a couple years, they'll be right back in the same place of failure. >>1564710 >I think it more had to do with corporate incompetence Activision even fumbled the 3+4 remaster of Tony Hawk. If they're gonna phone it in, it makes me fear what they'll do when or if they get to Underground. >>1564756 Tawna would be a lot more bearable if they got rid of the shit hair and the shit colored outfit. Surprising they didn't have her leave Crash to get porked by Tiny or a villain, or outright turn her gay. >Cortex Has any other villain actually stuck besides maybe Uka Uka? >>1565499 >Mario games (and most of their other first party games) are always top notch Were top notch, but even then, as much as I loved Nintendos N64 games, Goemon 64 was better to me like how Okami was better than Zelda. >but most of them are definitely better than most Crash games Not that hard with everything after the PS1 was companies who didn't know what to do with it, playing hot potato with the series. >Gex 1 isn't even a game anyone really remembers Because nobody played it and going back to try it out now, seems impossible. >when Sonic had two cartoons on at the same time Underground shouldn't exist. >Except Superstars. Did that bomb? I thought it was pretty good. I think I got that one mixed up with an infinite runner game. What qualifies Sonic games as mainline; felt like there might be two (3D and Sidescroller) but the ones that shift between the two and the various drastic changes between games muddies it up and makes me look at a lot of things as just side games. >Mania That seemed more like a disconnected one off that ended because Sega realized what furries were. >Boom (3DS) all did very well Sucks they wash their hands of characters after they're done with the games they were introduced in. The cartoon made me actually like Sticks.

>>1565860 >Are IDW's even good? Didn't they piss away easy shit like Transformers and GI Joe? IDW is a horrible company that went massively SJW over the last ten years or so, but their Sonic comics are alright. They have some stupid OCs that take up too much attention, but they seem to have been getting rid of them in the last few months. They're definitely the best Sonic comics, as they lack the absolutely retarded shit that the Archie comics did over the years. There are a few really cool arcs that the IDW comics have done, and no really terrible arcs. Just some issues have gotten a bit boring. But I think it's bouncing back a little bit lately. >>1565860 >I'll never understand how they're doing so well while being so boring Marketing. Fixing that horrible design from the first trailer bought them a lot of goodwill, and casuals knew about it and ate it up, even though the movie was still overall just as disrespectful to the source material as that original design would imply. And the second movie was better, but not by a whole lot. It has Tails and Knuckles, and that alone is a huge point in its favor, since at least there is something to focus on that isn't just lame human bullshit that has nothing to do with what people like about the series, but the movie cuts away from them for like 15 minutes so we can see a sassy fat black woman's wedding, which really undercuts all the good the movie tried to do. The third movie was actually good, though. It changed elements to make the story fit in the world the movies had established, and to let Jim Carrey ham it up as two separate Robotniks, but I think those are both reasonable changes to make, and overall it was actually an entertaining film. The human OCs from the previous movies are barely in it, so little that I almost would have appreciated a couple more cameos from them. (The main character of the Knuckles TV show wasn't Knuckles, it was Sonic's human dad's friend named Wade Whipple. He sucks and the show sucked, but given that he was the main character, I would have expected a cameo in the next movie. But no. Nothing.) The movie is about Shadow and Gerald, and Gerald acts different but it's because he's Jim Carrey and I think that's reasonable. He's also not so different that it really destroys anything. The movie focuses on him having a good relationship with Eggman, which gives the same impact as in the game, where Eggman admired him but seemingly never got to know him, only here we get to know him better, and focus on that relationship more. But mostly the movie is Shadow and the other cartoon characters from the games going around and doing cool action scenes, plus two Jim Carreys being wacky bad guys, and I think that's pretty cool. Plus it keeps the emotional core of Shadow's story, while the previous Sonic movies made up a completely new emotional core of Sonic being a sad lonely child, which is completely the opposite of what his character should be. Overall, good movie, which was unexpected since the first two (and the Knuckles TV series) sucked so badly. >it'll be interesting to see how they can figure out how to move forward, now that they've reached the last real bit of nostalgia bait. No they didn't. The post credit scene teases Metal Sonic and Amy. But I'm dreading it because they make Amy into a girlboss character in her ten seconds in the teaser, which is not at all what makes her character appealing, though it is what modern incarnations have slowly been leaning more and more towards for the last almost 15 years. But still, they're probably going to do some fucked up feminist adaptation of Sonic CD, maybe with some Sonic Heroes elements thrown in. Also, there were an army of Metal Sonics in the teaser, which happens in the UK's Sonic the Comic. Their Metal Sonic arcs were actually really good, though I guess I shouldn't be too confident that they're specifically trying to adapt those. They could also do a story about Chaos, which they simply skipped. They'd have to change it a bit since they changed the nature of the Master Emerald in the movies, but that's not an insurmountable problem. The Archie Comics also had to overcome that problem. Their adaptation of Sonic Adventure sucked, but still, it could theoretically be done. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if they do a Shadow the Hedgehog TV series, like they did with Knuckles, and hopefully with the positive reception to Sonic 3, they would actually make it a little bit accurate to the games. Now, maybe not as edgy as the actual Shadow the Hedgehog game, but they did bring Black Doom back in the latest Sonic game (Shadow Generations), so the idea that they could try to adapt that story isn't completely ridiculous. After that, though, then yeah, they'd have used up all the good Sonic games with good stories. Still, I wouldn't put it past them to try to do some version of Sonic '06. Silver is a somewhat known character, and to be fair, the story isn't why Sonic '06 sucks. People complain about the princess in it, but she's not that important to the overall story of Silver and Mephiles (and Blaze), which people seem to actually like. They could adapt them, leave out Elise (or at least leave out her weird semi-romance with Sonic), and maybe get a pretty cool movie. I don't think anyone wants to see a Sonic Unleashed movie where he turns into a werewolf, but maybe by the time they get to Sonic Movie 7 nostalgia for Unleashed might be high enough to do it. After Unleashed, it was basically all excuse plots, but if for some reason the movies were so successful that they were still going, I could see them adapting Sonic Forces. That sort of has a story, and it's similar to the Saturday Morning cartoon which already almost got adapted into a movie over 20 years ago, until Ken Penders fucked it up. And if for some reason they got to Sonic movie 8, then we'll have several new Sonic games by then, and Frontiers seemed to be Sonic Team testing the water with having a real story again. I don't think Frontiers has enough story to justify adapting it into a movie, but maybe the next game will. Or by that point they would be justified in adapting the comics, which are written by the guy who writes the games now. The Metal Virus arc might be a bit weird in a movie, but maybe they could do a cool plot about Surge and Kit. Starline could be replaced by Stone (since honestly they're both just Snivley anyway). Hopefully by that point Tangle and Whisper will be forgotten memories, because those characters get way too much focus in the comic, and have even been in a mobile game, and they fucking suck. And before some autist, like me, comes in and starts pointing to spinoff games, yes, I like them, too, but honestly the only ones I think even come close to having enough plot to adapt into a movie are Sonic Riders and its sequels (if you treat it all like one big thing and do a movie about the Babylon Rogues) and maybe Sonic Battle. But Sonic Battle's a mix of a fighting game and RPG and its plot shows it. Adapting it into a game would be tough. Also the main character is basically Emerl, but he can't carry anything because he barely is a character. Maybe by the time of Sonic Movie 9 Ken Penders will be dead and they can adapt Sonic Chronicles. >After everything you've said, everything else is just merchandising. Don't forget the TV shows. >Sonic, like I said, was outright gonna die, with Sega betting the horse on Frontiers. Had they failed with Frontiers like the dozen of games before it The two games before Frontiers were Forces and Mania, which released around the same time. Forces disappointed but Mania was a huge success. Lost World was disappointing (it was a Wii U exclusive, after all), but before that was Generations, which was a huge success. So was Colors before that. That covers the whole 2010s.

>Activision even fumbled the 3+4 remaster of Tony Hawk. If they're gonna phone it in, it makes me fear what they'll do when or if they get to Underground. Activision has killed Crash multiple times. They killed Tony Hawk like four times now. Let's count. >ending the original series to replace it with motion controlled gimmick games (which they can charge more for since they need accessories) >Pro Skater HD was a complete disaster so they just later did Pro Skater 1+2, which is a remake of the same two games anyway, and tried to pretend they didn't already remake it (actually they remade it twice because 2X on Xbox was the same thing, but that one is actually good). >Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5 was so bad the disc only contained a demo and the actual game, still unfinished, needed to be downloaded through an update, which could only be downloaded on release day because Activision was losing the license on that day and that's they only made the game to get one last cash grab before they lost it. >3+4 removes the mission structure that was 4's big advancement in the series, making it a complete downgrade from the original How many times has Activision killed Spider-Man? But even once they lost the rights, Sony isn't doing any better with the license. I'm also still mad at Activision for killing the entire rhythm game genre with a zillion half assed Guitar Hero releases every year. Rock Band was great, and I blame Activision for making the entire genre a joke. >Surprising they didn't have her leave Crash to get porked by Tiny or a villain, or outright turn her gay. Tawna got porked by Pinstripe before Crash 2. That's actual Crash 2 lore. It's not in the original game or manual but it seems like an idea that came from the original team and made it into a few other forms of media, like manga and official guides. Still, if you're doing a Crash 4 and ignoring a bunch of the series, that's one thing to ignore. They should have brought Tawna back in her original glory, just to show that Crash is an awesome chad. Which is of course hilarious because he's a little cartoon critter, but that was the joke in the original anyway. Crash Bandicoot is the chad of cartoon characters. >Has any other villain actually stuck besides maybe Uka Uka? Crunch seemed to be a pretty popular character considering he was only in the post-ND games. Tropy was the main bad guy in N-Tranced on GBA. Too bad they also replaced him with a girl in Crash 4. Girl power! Coco was also a forerunner of the SJW influence on Crash. My first loli waifu since I was a kid, but I can admit in retrospect that she was a sign of things to come. >Not that hard with everything after the PS1 was companies who didn't know what to do with it, playing hot potato with the series. Yeah I agree. Crash is my personal favorite, but we just have to admit the situation here. >Because nobody played (Gex) and going back to try it out now, seems impossible. People did play it. That's why there are three of them. It's easy to try it out now. PS1 emulators have been easy for like 20 years, and wasn't there a Gex rerelease for modern hardware recently? Not as good as the Croc one, from what I saw, but it's something. And I know it was on the PS Store before. >Underground shouldn't exist. Underground was not one of the two Sonic cartoons that were on at the same time. Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, and "Sonic the Hedgehog" (which fans call SatAM because it aired on Saturday mornings) are the ones that were both on at the same time. That's how big Sonic was in the early '90s. Underground was like five years later. And if you think it sucks, you just need to watch beyond Episode 40. After the revival, it got really good. Just a year or two ago they released "Sonic Underground The Movie: World War III" and it was amazing. >What qualifies Sonic games as mainline; I'd just say any platformer except for the handheld exclusive ones. If you play them, they just feel more main. They are the genre the series has always been in, and handheld games in the series usually feel like side content to the main games (even though Lost World 3DS is a 3D platformer with gameplay extremely similar to the main version, but with totally different level designs). But Mania and Superstars feel like mainline games. Mania maybe wasn't supposed to be from Sega's POV, they almost treated it like a tie-in to Forces, but Mania was too damn good, so it's mainline. >That seemed more like a disconnected one off that ended because Sega realized what furries were. Sega knows what their fans are. But Mania obviously wasn't pushed by furries. It's not like Rouge or even Amy were in it. You need better graphics, to allow close-ups of the characters, if you really want to pander to the furries. >Sticks Well given what a disaster Boom for Wii U was, I can understand why Sega would want to wash their hands of it, even though from what I understand the cartoon did well, as did the 3DS games. But the main Boom game is a legendary Sonic '06-level disaster. That said, Sticks was mentioned in Frontiers, so even though Boom was a separate universe, they're treating her as canon. I bet writer Ian Flynn snuck that in without Sega noticing, but still.

>>1565860 >Surprising they didn't have her leave Crash to get porked by Tiny or a villain, or outright turn her gay. Well we almost get this shit

>>1565996 >and wasn't there a Gex rerelease for modern hardware recently? From what I understood, it was the ps1 games running through an open source emulator with no ability to increase the resolution scale.

>>1566100 Honestly that is less bad than what we got. If we're gonna run with the Pinstripe story, then you might as well have Tawna go full villain. But obviously her hair color shouldn't change (I get it's probably a reference to Pinstripe). But having her have a kid that ruined her body and made her not hot anymore could work, for that reason. They want her not hot anymore for political reasons, but if they at least came up with a good in universe reason, that would be a lot more tolerable. Saying it's a different universe where she isn't hot is not tolerable. If I was gonna try to work with this designer's basic idea, I'd keep the fucked up baby, but I'd have Tawna be a bit fat and saggy, as some women do after pregnancy, breastfeeding, and generally fucking up their lives. But she needs the hair to remain recognizable. I think the original outfit is needed, too. Basically, just take Tawna, but then emphasize that she really fucked up her life by leaving Crash. Because Crash is awesome, and of course leaving him would be a horrible decision, only made by a dumb bitch that would make tons of terrible decisions.

>>1565860 Sonic survives because Sega actually cares about him. You can make a ton of excuses, hate the comics, movies, etc. but all of those things have various levels of success because someone at Sega cares enough to make the deals in order for those things to happen and by extension, work. On the subject of Activision, did you know Skylanders had an IDW comic? It wasn't good but it did sell. Activision had it killed off because they couldn't be assed to go over the scripts to make sure nothing in it conflicted with the TV show. Despite all the financial success, they couldn't be assed to have ONE PERSON pay attention. All of the merchandising you see with Sonic's face plastered on everything only happens because Sega, objectively speaking, are a better publisher than Activision. By the way, did you know Activision didn't publish the Nsane Trilogy or Nitro-fueled in Japan? They pawned over the publishing duties (and all revenue from the Asia region) off to Sony and Sega of Japan. Something to keep in mind when anyone brings up sales cause Activision proper didn't make as much money off of that as you think they did. >Tawna They had Crash get cucked by "Smathen Trake" in Crash 4. And I wouldn't be surprised if that parody of Nathen Drake didn't turn out to be an Abby sized woman. >>1566143 I believe this iteration was meant to be an alt-Universe as well. I think it was in the artbook where they always intended her to be an alt-Universe as a general excuse to redesign her.

>>1566174 >a version of Tawna that continues the story of main universe Tawna was going to be an alt-universe anyway for no particular reason I fucking hate what modern multiverses have become.

>>1565996 >emoves the mission structure that was 4's big advancement in the series, making it a complete downgrade from the original 4's implementation of it was pretty shit compared to how THUG did it, though 3+4 (which apparently cuts the few good goals in 4) was hardly an improvement. Goal complexity or length in 4 rarely increased to match the more more easier structure, and when it did it was too often a dumb minigame or a session of "match the tricks" that went on for far too long in too easy an area (contrast with the areas THUG picks for this that demand more than just a safe bowl).

>>1566234 >4's implementation of it was pretty shit compared to how THUG did it Yeah, no shit the sequel took the idea from the previous game and improved upon it. That's not a reason to remove the main selling point of the game from said game's remake.

>>1563111 Ahem. >>1566241 4 is really bad about it though. It rarely ever justified the change having been made and it was pure downgrade for most goals.

>>1566100 Holy shit, they actually wanted her have a baby! >>1565995 >isn't just lame human bullshit that has nothing to do with what people like about the series At least they're more bearable than Chris. >Plus it keeps the emotional core of Shadow's story It and Generations really spiked Maria's art. >>1565995 >Metal Sonic How the fuck did I forget about him?! >Amy Remembered her but I don't see her contributing anything in the slightest. >Also, there were an army of Metal Sonics in the teaser, which happens in the UK's Sonic the Comic I see it being more from them being affected by Ultron and Iron Man 2. >They could also do a story about Chaos, which they simply skipped Like Capeshit movies, I don't see them properly adapting something big like that. It'll be some misunderstood animal that accidentally blew up a dam from fear of being captured. Emerl is out of the question since they're using Metal Sonic. >leave out her weird semi-romance with Sonic), and maybe get a pretty cool movie Damn, Sonic's that much of a ladies man? There's no way they'd adapt a furry, woke or not. >Don't forget the TV shows Why do you want anyone to remember those? >Forces disappointed I've been wondering how'd they fuck up an easy goldmine such as letting the furries make their own donut steels. I hope if they still want something like open world in the next game, I hope they go something closer to a pseudo open world that they can flesh out better because Frontiers felt boring and empty. >>1565996 >>Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5 was so bad the disc only contained a demo and the actual game, still unfinished, needed to be downloaded through an update Is there any property they own that they haven't destroyed? >Tawna got porked by Pinstripe before Crash 2. That's actual Crash 2 lore. Damn, that's the main Crash game I played; little me must've never noticed. >it seems like an idea that came from the original team and made it into a few other forms of media, like manga and official guides Well that explains things. >Coco I just took her as a Penny Gadget inspired character that was made to help out when it involved technology that couldn't be solved by busting it up. >People did play it. That's why there are three of them Back then, you didn't need to go over 1mil sells to make even. >wasn't there a Gex rerelease for modern hardware recently Limited Run Games; so as expected it had their seal of quality, shit.

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>any platformer except for the handheld exclusive ones As much as I didn't care for them, I honestly see the GBA games as more mainline than many console games. >But Mania obviously wasn't pushed by furries. It's not like Rouge or even Amy were in it Aren't the brunt of furries gay for Sonic? >>1566143 If they went the route of destroying Tawna for leaving Crash, I'd rather have her steadily gain mutations or robotic parts throughout the series as Crash maim or blow her up like everyone else he ends up fighting against. >Sega cares enough to make the deals in order for those things to happen and by extension, work I've seen what Sega allows on tv and the big screen; they're only a little better than Crapcom. >Skylanders had an IDW comic For the most part I ignored Skylanders. >everything only happens because Sega, objectively speaking, are a better publisher than Activision You should never try to gloat about being better than absolute dogshit. >Activision didn't publish the Nsane Trilogy or Nitro-fueled in Japan? They pawned over the publishing duties (and all revenue from the Asia region) off to Sony and Sega of Japan That's not all that surprising since the original games looks like they had to go out of their way to get sales in Japan and I'm guessing publishing rights came with having to translate the games for Japan. >I wouldn't be surprised if that parody of Nathen Drake didn't turn out to be an Abby sized woman Aww shit, they're gonna take Crash clubbin' and leave Coco as the protag.

>>1566451 >It'll be some misunderstood animal that accidentally blew up a dam from fear of being captured. Pachacmac is in the Knuckles TV show. He's the best part of it. He only has like two scenes, but he's played by Christopher Lloyd. Now, him being seemingly a nice guy in that show would contradict the games, but they could just say he turned nice once he was already a ghost or something. Idk. But Sonic 3 did a pretty good job adapting Shadow, and I fully expected them to not even have Maria get shot. So I would be cautiously optimistic about them doing Chaos. >Emerl is out of the question since they're using Metal Sonic. Plus, Emerl is a much more obscure character from a spinoff of a spinoff. Character wise he doesn't really have much in common with Metal Sonic, he has a lot in common with Shadow, though, which is an intentional part of his story. Actually, if anything, I could see them adapting Emerl specifically for that reason, to tie him in with Shadow, since people like Shadow again. >Damn, Sonic's that much of a ladies man? There's no way they'd adapt a furry, woke or not. I think a very important part of Sonic, that has been forgotten over the years, is that he is supposed to be the coolest thing ever. In real life, he was designed by committee to be such, and while that is silly, in universe I think it's important that they play it straight. All women want him, and all men want to be him. But he's too cool to settle down and has no time for love. Sonic isn't just the fastest thing alive, he's the coolest thing alive, and I think that's even more important in adaptations, where story and character are more important. >Why do you want anyone to remember (the tv shows)? Several of them were very popular. Sonic X Season 3 was probably the coolest, and maybe they could try to adapt that to a movie. They already have their version of Chris Thorndyke (although they could just remove him entirely and everything would be much better). Plus SatAM was popular, but yeah they're not gonna adapt that. They should at least have Eggman nickname Stone "Snivley" because he acts like a snivilling little worm or whatever. The most they could do to adapt Adventures is to have Jim Carrey accuse Sonic of "SnooPING AS usual, I see!" That said, the Sonic movies won't be truly good until they adapt Bartleby in them. >I just took (Coco) as a Penny Gadget inspired character that was made to help out when it involved technology that couldn't be solved by busting it up. I took her as that when I was a kid, too. But really it was because a feminist marketing executive at Universal Interactive Studios was offended by Tawna being sexy, because she was such a stupid bitch that she didn't get Tawna was already a parody of the damsel in distress trope. It was already making a feminist point, but too subtly for a feminist to understand it. So instead she was replaced with a girl that wasn't supposed to be sexy, and was super smart and capable, and spends the whole game telling Crash that he's fucking up and shouldn't do what he's doing. >Back then, you didn't need to go over 1mil sells to make even. Back then the population was smaller. But a significant percentage of people playing video games played Gex. It was a well known property, even if it was a distant fourth or fifth (or sixth or seventh) place in the mascot platformer genre. But that was a pretty packed genre at the time. Sure, maybe he wasn't Mario or Sonic or Crash... or Donkey Kong, or Banjo, or Spyro... and maybe not Rayman... but he was a bit above Croc. And hey, people kind of like Croc. I'd definitely say Gex has way better games than Croc. Gex should have no shame for losing to such great mascot platformers. >As much as I didn't care for them, I honestly see the GBA games as more mainline than many console games. Maybe console games that are in other genres, but not more than the ones that are platformers. >Aren't the brunt of furries gay for Sonic? I have no stats, but gays are just loud and obsessive. But with Rouge's big titties and Amy's panty shots in Sonic Adventure, I don't believe Sonic Team didn't know what they were doing. But there's nothing like that in Mania. If anything, the gays would also like other games better than Mania. You can get better shots of their favorites in the 3D games than you can in the 2D games. >If they went the route of destroying Tawna for leaving Crash, I'd rather have her steadily gain mutations or robotic parts throughout the series as Crash maim or blow her up like everyone else he ends up fighting against. How many other times does that happen? I can't think of any, except for when N. Brio hulks out. And Tawna's already mutated. So is Crash. Maybe the way to go is to have her be a gangster first, more like Pinstripe. So now she looks a bit fat and saggy and pathetic (I'm imagining the gangster's mothers from movies like Goodfellas, but younger), but she pulls out a gun and maybe does a double boss fight with Pinstripe (and maybe their baby can participate and be a threat, too). But maybe after that she can show back up with some N. Brio style extra mutation, if they insist on making her even cooler than that. But of course we all know that these ideas would defeat the real point, which is to have the "damsel in distress" make a chump out of Crash. She could never be made to look like she fucked up. She could never lose. She can't be made a good hero or villain, because SJWs can't write good female characters at all, because being a character involves having flaws.

>>1566580 >complains about bloat >uses Sonic Frontiers as a positive example I had fun the whole time I played Sonic Frontiers, but the fun per minute ratio was way lower than many other games, including Mario Odyssey. If I wasn't so damn autistic for Sonic, I'm sure I would have gotten bored of running around barren landscapes with nothing to do but collect so many random collectables that it makes DK64 look small time. Mario Odyssey has much more intricate challenges. I haven't played Wonder yet, but clearly the game to compare that to is not Frontiers, it's Superstars. That said, I liked Superstars and wasn't interested enough to play Wonder, so I'm not sure how I'd compare their quality. The only Sonic games I'd say are really as good (or at least come close) as the mainline Mario games are Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic 1 is pretty good, and Sonic 2 is a lot better, but these came out after Super Mario World. Neither one even really compares positively to Super Mario Bros. 3. They compare positively to most platformers, but Mario 3 and World are some of the greatest games of all time. I'd say Sonic Adventure compares positively to Mario 64, but I know I'm in the minority with that opinion. I can understand why other people might not appreciate the ambition, and might be put off by some of the less refined elements. Sonic Adventure 2 might be my favorite game of all time, and I like it better than Mario Sunshine, but I respect Mario Sunshine and could understand if people disagreed with me. It's definitely a great game. I defend Heroes, Shadow, and Unleashed. I even defend '06 a bit. Obviously '06 is an alpha prototype that sucks (but maybe could have been good if it was finished). Heroes and Shadow are half baked and mediocre, and if you're not a fan of platformers in general and Sonic in particular, I can see why you wouldn't like them. They're obviously no Mario Sunshine or Galaxy. Not even in the same league. Unleashed isn't half baked, it's just retarded. I love it, but I can understand people not wanting half the game to be a God of War clone, and I never loved Boost Sonic's gameplay that much. It's more a single player racing game than a 3D platformer. The 2D sections are nowhere near as fun as the Genesis Sonic games. My opinions on Unleashed's day stages extend to every game up to Forces. Boost Sonic is alright but it's no Mario. The 3D is meh and the 2D fails to live up to the good 2D Sonic games. Mania and Superstars are the only ones that do that. Even "Classic Sonic" in Generations and Forces, which gets closer, is still not really the same thing.

>>1566728 Frontiers' gameplay consists of big open areas that are actually just hub worlds for a bunch of disconnected short Boost Sonic platforming challenges that all look the same. Look, I liked the game, I played it for well over 100 hours, which I think was a lot more than I spent 100%ing Odyssey, but the amount of fun per minute isn't even close. Odyssey having filler moons (mostly in the postgame) isn't a problem when comparing it to Frontiers, which is practically all filler, with very few extremely important or memorable setpieces or challenges.

>Mentions Sonic >Discussion immediately blows the fuck up And that is why Sonic is Immortal while clones like Jazz Jackrabbit simply died. No disrespect to Jazz (he got his shit together with Jazz 2) but Sonic the Hedgehog is the John Cena of platformers. Whether you're chanting "Let's go Sonic" or "Sonic Sucks", you're just feeding the beast. On an unrelated note: Is it me or is the perception of Crash in the west based heavily on the commercials? I think Crash suit guy was believed to be Crash's actual personality by most even though he's completely different in game. Would it have been better if Crash actually had that edgy asshole personality instead of being a Mute dumbass Looney Tunes character? Also funny how Crash suit guy wasn't in Nitro Fueled. Genuine missed opportunity there.

>>1566786 >Jazz Jackrabbit I mean full disrespect to Jazz Jackrabbit. That fag wasn't even as cool as Aero The Acro-Bat. He was Bubsy tier at best. (That said, I don't think Bubsy deserves just how poor his reputation is these days.) Sonic simply has so much content in so much media that there is so much to talk about. I'm saying Frontiers sucks compared to Odyssey, but I played it for over 100 hours Sonic is my favorite thing in the world (even though I think only one or two Sonic games are as good as the good Crash games). Sonic is a whole world you can get lost in. And there are a few excellent Sonic games, and a bunch of others that are at least pretty fun. You raise a good point about those Crash commercials. Those commercials are why I bought a PlayStation. I think they should have kept with those commercials for every Crash game. They should have included them inside the games themselves. It's hard to imagine that being Crash's game personality, because the type of stuff he does is so different than in the commercials, but having a few joke live action cutscenes, like going up to Cortex's castle and harassing him with a megaphone? That could be pretty funny. And yeah, CTR should have had that guy as a character all along. Did Nitro Fuelled add him as DLC? I see your pic there, but I stopped paying any attention to that game the moment they added microtransactions.

>>1566822 Bubsy is still alive you know. He's getting a new collection this year after getting two new but poorly received games not too long ago. https://store.steampowered.com/app/3039890/Bubsy_in_The_Purrfect_Collection/ Atari is actually making money off of him. Think about that while you wonder why Crash is dead. On that note, they were still using the Crash suit guy for ads. Hell, they had him in Creator Clash in order to promote Crash Team Rumble. https://youtu.be/qzTlOUs-FWI?si=iRIDGUFm9BQEUVp6 A lot of it was on twitter and facebook. You can search that shit yourself.

>>1566898 I disagree with literally everything you said except for how you're mad about Mario getting cucked. You're definitely right about that. That agreement is enough for me to consider you my friend. I hate Peach in the movie, but really that shit started in Odyssey. Also, it should be noted that Odyssey was actually finished when it released. Frontiers had to have its real ending released much later. You talk about S Ranks, but Frontiers' "levels" are designs from previous games but with worse visual design. The real meat of the game is a bunch of floating platforms, and the challenge consists of spotting some glowing object, then guessing which random spring will shoot you on the rail that eventually roundaboutly gets you to that object. I 100%ed all the combat challenges, but they fucking sucked. Sonic's never been good at combat, and while this might be the best attempt at it in the series, I'd rather they just didn't try. The Super Sonic boss fights were pretty cool, though. I'll give those some credit for being better than most 3D Sonic boss fights, especially Super Sonic boss fights. All I want from Sonic is Sonic Adventure 2's Sonic stages, but more of them. Shadow Generations got the closest to that in a long time. I'd say Shadow Generations was a lot better than Frontiers, despite being much shorter. That said, it gives me hope for the next Sonic game. Shadow Generations did build on ideas from Frontiers, so if the next game continues building on these ideas, it can be really great. Actually I would say Shadow Generations was pretty darn great. Definitely my favorite 3D Sonic since Adventure 2, by a pretty significant margin. Frontiers was Sonic Team trying an ambitious new idea and then having to push it out the door a bit half baked, which has happened several times with various levels of success (including Sonic Adventure, one of my favorite games of all time). If they keep refining that half baked idea, then I look forward to their next output. But that's a big IF, because Sonic Team is known to just make weird (albeit ambitiously weird) decisions sometimes.

>>1566920 >I hate Peach in the movie, but really that shit started in Odyssey. Just their attempt at giving Peach some kind of personality after being a brainless doormat macguffin for 35 years. She is nothing more than a screaming clear area, like some kind of horrible pre-assembly line barbie doll that is made of clear plastic. But now they're trying to force this square peg in a round hole that she's actually a badass queenslayar type who wields a battle axe. Yeah, whatever, fuck you Nintendo. >Also, it should be noted that Odyssey was actually finished when it released. Frontiers had to have its real ending released much later. You talk about S Ranks, but Frontiers' "levels" are designs from previous games but with worse visual design. T Yeah, okay, fine. You're talking mostly about production hangups, it's true that Frontiers had less of a budget than they allocated towards Mario Odyssey, but Sega doesn't have Nintendo money. Sonic Team has only 50 people compared to the 350 man team that worked on Odyssey. I think if their budgets and staff were the same Frontiers would be clearly superior but as it stands I just can't say I had nearly as much fun with Odyssey as I did with Frontiers. Like I'll admit Mario is full of "aww that's cute" shit like him turning into a Moai or him going 8-bit to run around in 2D sections but that's all Mario is these days, just aww that's cute moments that eschew tight arcade-inspried game design. I like going fast and I like blowing up huge robots so maybe that's why I just vibe with Sonic Frontiers more. Once you get the hang of the combat system it does feel a bit like Devil May Cry Jr. which I did enjoy. Got even better once they added the spindash which should have been in since the beginning but they're realizing what they did right and hopefully all the good aspects carry over to the next game. I also appreciate that they made the entire DLC chapter balls-smashingly hard, that's something you don't get with Mario anymore, they never have any hard levels except maybe the very very last level once you've beaten literally everything else.

>>1567402 >Just their attempt at giving Peach some kind of personality after being a brainless doormat macguffin for 35 years. She is nothing more than a screaming clear area, like some kind of horrible pre-assembly line barbie doll that is made of clear plastic. You're a filthy casual eating up feminist assumptions. Peach had her own game on the DS, as well as several other playable appearances, including in RPGs. Granted, no Mario character has the deepest characterization ever, but Peach is just as deep as any other. But feminists don't play video games so they don't realize that. They weren't attempting to flesh out her character, they were deliberately spiting their false assumption by replacing it with outright feminist propaganda. If they wanted to flesh out Peach further, then obviously she should be a super fancy, super girly magical girl. But that wouldn't make a hamfisted feminist point for them, so they couldn't do that. >You're talking mostly about production hangups I'm talking about the final product of the game. I love Sonic, and I appreciate the ambition that a lot of the games seem to have, but few games get even close to realizing the ambition. Sonic '06 could have been amazing if it was finished, but it wasn't even close to finished. I'm not trying to say Frontiers is as bad as Sonic '06, I like Frontiers, but it still comes across as a rather basic test of some ideas that never really got to be fully realized. Even Sonic Adventure comes across like that to a degree, but it got a lot closer to what they wanted. Still could have been a lot more polished, though. And ultimately, we have to judge the game that actually gets released, not the game that was imagined and could have been. I also disagree with you saying Mario is just a bunch of cute moments with no difficulty. Mario games tend to get extremely difficult by the end. You can get the bad end and watch the credits before then, because kids want that, but then you can continue and the game gets crazy. I'd say 3D World gets much harder than Odyssey, but they both get pretty hard by the end. And I don't just mean at the very last level. There's usually at least a whole world or more worth of content that's pretty hard. 3D World has multiple super hard worlds. Odyssey is structured differently but there are plenty of very difficult areas and challenges. All that said, Sonic and 3D Land/World are obstacle course games, while the rest of the 3D Marios are mostly exploration collectathons with platforming challenges scattered around. The thing is, that's what Frontiers is, too. And Frontiers didn't do it as well as most Mario games. The open world is barren and all looks the same, the platforming challenges are largely random and much more on rails (often literally), and the areas where you go to an obstacle course (which all 3D Marios also have) are obstacle courses from previous games. Frontiers' DLC was a lot harder, and I mostly like that, but I don't enjoy the combat enough to appreciate it. The Master King fight wasn't very fun, because the combat isn't that fun. And I 100%ed all of it. I'm not saying that I just couldn't do it. But this type of combat isn't why I play Sonic. It's better than when Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog tried to start giving enemies health bars, but it's not that much better. I hope in the next Sonic game they have Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Amy all playable (and not just as DLC), but that they're all refined further. Hopefully Sonic is adjusted to play a lot more like Shadow in Shadow Generations (the whole game should be adjusted to be more like that), and the other playable characters should be variations on Sonic. Also, the world can't be a barren wasteland, and the levels can't be levels from old games but with worse generic visuals. Obviously if you have an open world Sonic game, you want to run around a variety of Sonic-esque biomes. Just let me run around all of Angel Island or whatever. That's already a well defined location that has a bunch of different cool biomes to explore, and could have cool landmarks and setpieces that would be fun to check out. They could do another new island, I suppose, and just have the same collection of biomes anyway, but that's a bit lamer. Actually, if they did Angel Island, they'd be justified in using old levels, like Icecap and Red Mountain from Sonic Adventure, but it would be a lot cooler if they did new 3D levels that were meant to be the same locations as ones from Sonic 3 & Knuckles (like Sonic Adventure did with Icecap and Red Mountain).

I just want to shill Spark the Electric Jester 1 and 3 I would have shilled 2 but considering the creator ported every level from 2 into 3 for free. He'd made that pretty redundant. So the only reason to do 2 is to experience that engine and its old design and its cutscenes. Unironically, I'd suggest looking into his old fan games too. Sonic Before and After the Sequel, he still updates occasionally (his Sonic Chrono Adventure game I still find fun even if a bit silly). It'll be a while before he works on a new platformer, however. He's turned his attention to another genre he loves. Arcade style Racing games. Pretty insane that the Sonic Frontiers devs looked to this guy for inspiration. My only criticism is his storytelling is kinda shit, and the action combat aspect still needs improvement, especially integrating it with platforming. Needs some more megaman less kirby in its inspiration diet now that it's 3d.

>>1568080 While Spark 2 is kind of a disappointment, I still think its worth playing as IIRC the levels from 2 don't work 100% the same as Fark has a slightly different move set. Again, if I am remembering things correctly.

>>1568485 That one is a lie. Spark 2's physics are so shit, you can just jump through everything if you go fast enough, which is crazy easy to do. If anything the new physics made the old levels much more satisfying

>>1567969 >You're a filthy casual eating up feminist assumptions. Peach had her own game on the DS, as well as several other playable appearances, including in RPGs. It is not at all a "feminist assumption" to say that Peach fucking sucks as a character and she had the personality of a doormat for 35 years. Yeah I know she had her own DS game. I owned it. It sucked shit. I find it hilarious how you sing the praises of Mario's "difficult" games and then toot the horn of Peach's own absolutely horrendous, pointless DS game that was made to be so effortlessly easy that a 3 year old girl could beat it. Peach has never had any agency or personality when she wasn't teaming up with Mario. Even in the adventures when she was tagging along with Mario, she often hid behind him to protect her. This version of Peach where she still needs Mario to give her confidence ironically has more personality than her stupid ass girl boss persona. >I also disagree with you saying Mario is just a bunch of cute moments with no difficulty. Mario games tend to get extremely difficult by the end. No they don't. Mario Wonder and Odyssey were both pathetically easy and they only reserve the actual challenges for the absolute tail end, the very LAST tip, of the postgame. Mario 3D World was a bit better about this, but not by much. I already said my piece and I don't want to harangue too much longer about how the latest Mario games were gimmicky pieces of garbage, but I actually liked 3D World quite a lot and it's my favorite of the 3D Marios by far. What I hate though is the fact that they eschew tightly designed levels for just scavenger hunt esque design or cutesy gimmicks where Mario turns into a toad and then you briefly hop him up some high platforms. It's like they're saying they are not confident enough in building a game around Mario's core abilities that they have to force him to transform into some other distracting shit in order to make the game interesting. The suits/powerups in the original SMB games didn't outright throw entirely new gameplay modes at you every single time you ate one but with these latest games that seems to be the entire point and I fucking hate it. I think this is why I prefer SM3DW, it's more of a 'pure Mario experience' instead of all that gimmicky crap they keep shoving into the new ones.

>>1568801 Saying Peach doesn't have much of a character is just saying that she exists in the Mario franchise. They could have expanded upon the character that already existed, but instead they did the complete opposite so they could push feminist propaganda. I agree with you that I in general don't like exploration based platformers as much as obstacle course style platformers, so I prefer 3D World over Odyssey. But a game being much more polished and doing what it does more effectively counts for something. It's why I like Sonic Unleashed more than Sonic '06 despite preferring Sonic '06's gameplay style. I like what Unleashed was trying to do less, but at least it did it very well. Of course there's a balance. I wouldn't say Sonic Adventure is super polished, but it's polished enough that I can appreciate everything it does, so I love it way, way more than Unleashed, which is way more polished.

>>1564710 Alt Tawna is just a symptom of a bigger issue which isn't corporate incompetence. Its corporate maliciousness or apathy. Activision does not understand the value of talent and niche interests. They think Crash needs to rival CoD, Candy Crush or bring in at the very least, Blizzard MTX money. Even if N. Sane, CTR and Spyro sold well they don't think thats enough. You NEED to be selling over 50 million units and have 20 dollar MTX's for each skin or kart paint or character. You wanna play as Beach Coco? 20 bucks. You want to see that new track or level? 20 bucks. It made them absolutely livid that they couldn't milk CTR NF on that level, and everything in it had to be earned by playing the game. Crash 4 iand Rumble s a similar thing. They didn't think or care if Vicarious Visions and Beenox did good enough, hell they didn't even care about a PC port for NF. They disbanded both of their companies and sent them to work on WoW or CoD. Then handed 4 off to a company they knew was inferior and when they failed just used the excuse of "well nobody wants anything new anyways shut it down." They set up the IP's to fail and can now gaslight people into thinking its their fault for doing so. Because they want more revenue. There was never an outcome where this wasn't going to happen either. Activision destroyed the IP's once before. It was fun to become briefly invested in something, even if it was just remakes but theres no scenario where Crash or Spyro return. An entire upheaval of the industry would need to happen for that to become a reality.

>>1570109 >It made them absolutely livid that they couldn't milk CTR NF on that level, and everything in it had to be earned by playing the game. But they did add tons of microtransactions. They said you could earn it by playing the game, but that was not true. My little brother bought it because they said it wouldn't have mictrotransactions, but then a month later they added them, and he only had a month before the items cycled. CTR is one of my favorite games and I've 100%ed the original multiple times, so I tried to help him earn everything. I played that game in all my free time for the whole month. On the last night, I got the last item for that month. Then I told him that I would never play that game again, and he'd be screwed getting all the other items. The amount of grinding you need to do to get everything is absolutely insane. And nothing you said had anything to do with SJW Tawna. That wasn't to make money. It's not like they offered paid DLC to fix the character (which would require changing a lot more than just her visual design). That was pure propaganda. Some feminists were mad that Crash had a sexy girlfriend, so they made her as unappealing as possible to own the shitlords.

>>1570109 >An entire upheaval of the industry would need to happen for that to become a reality. Here's hoping.

Andy Gavin decided to call out the Nsane Trilogy's bad controls on Linkend. This is nothing new but for those who just want the TLDR; The original Crash trilogy on PS1, while each game had slightly different physics, had the same precise controller input code i.e. Crash's jump height is entirely dependent on how long you hold the button giving near infinite control (heh) and precision. In the Nsane Trilogy, you have only TWO jump heights making platforming and precision a great deal harder than in the original games. VV tried to spin this as claiming all the physics were made to line up with Crash 2 but truth be told, it had nothing to do with physics. Dark Souls of Platforming = Bad controls.

>>1573438 >The original Crash trilogy on PS1, while each game had slightly different physics, had the same precise controller input code i.e. Crash's jump height is entirely dependent on how long you hold the button giving near infinite control (heh) and precision. I have been following a Crash autist on Youtube for a while and the whole discourse around the hitboxes is a lot more nuanced. I am not gonna link the videos since they're extremely long and deal with the topic only off handedly at odd minute marks, but the tl;dw: >Almost all the issues, as well as the features (the way characters are handled as entities, the ability to easily mod stuff in and out, down to the game mechanics for the gimmick levels of Crash 2 and 3) are a direct consequence of the game being a glorified Skylanders expansion, based on the same engine >The levels of all three games are NOT a faithful recreation, as the devs had to rework jump height, speed and platform magnitudes in accordance with the Skylanders physics >Pill hitboxes are a direct result of that Also, the reason why people have such a hard time with pill hitboxes may indirectly have been caused by none other than game journalists. I have never noticed this because it's something that's ingrained in my muscle memory, but apparently the very first level of Crash 1 (N. Sanity Beach) modifies the player character's properties so that it's always jumping at the maximum height, the taller of the two jumps you mentioned. This was done because of the large staircase section where the original game expected you to experiment with the controls until you could figure out that holding the X button would make you jump higher, but the Nsane Trilogy devs had no faith in the gaming press and modern tourists actually clearing the demo level and made it stupid easy for them. In turn, it's likely they never had enough feedback on the actual jumping mechanics, resulting in Crash 1 (the only game that has objectively difficult and precise platforming) having a difficulty spike due to the different hitbox. Additionally, all three Crash player characters are their own individual Skylander player character, meaning they have different properties, which probably resulted in a lot of mistakes during development.