>>5147
You argue too much about things becoming better without government, while the bigger issues is things becoming WORSE with government. Arguing with socialists cannot be done on the basis of "Lack of government" solves this issue because they see the issue as something top-down that needs to be fixed, while a libertarian sees the issue usually as something that will fix itself slowly over time.
Example:
Poverty is seen by a socialist as something that needs direct intervetion.
A libertarian knows that you cannot outright "solve" poverty, you can lessen the impact of poverty and the simple fact is that government involvement actually digs bigger of a hole and makes everyone more poor rather than helping the ones at the bottom.
There will always be poor people, but there will be less poor people in a Libertarian society than in a socialist one, simply because there is no government to fuck things up even more.
You can point to how ineffective the programs of helping the poor actually are and how they are basically wasting money and actually harming the poor more than helping them, while private charity actually has done more for the poor while being cucked by the government