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US Election Thread

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Debating Anonymous 03/02/2022 (Wed) 12:59:26 Id: 000000 No. 5147
I absolutely suck at defending or promoting libertarianism. Whenever it comes up in a debate, I'll either remain quiet, or end up losing yet more friends and family. One possibility is I absolutely suck at rhetoric, which is probably true, but before I get into that, I'd like to point out a major rhetorical issue I've been having. I think the issue is that libertarianism is just way too abstract to make the case for, and as evidence of this, I've played the other side and have been able to convince people of socialism incredibly easy. When I argue for socialism, all I have to do is bring up the other side's biggest emotional issue, and then describe a very concrete program that the government could do to solve it. You can always very concretely "see" the solution. When I argue on the libertarian's side, I either have to bring up "the seen and unseen," which is either too abstract and the other side isn't going to care about the unseen because they have such a huge emotional investment in the seen; or I try to bring up how not having government in the way would make things better, which still involves a very theoretical and hopeful argument about actors coming in after removing certain barriers to entry/etc.. Or I have to argue about the issue of conceit and hubris in government planning and how their proposed government solution likely wouldn't work (in practice, this approach has been one of the work arguments that--although it never worked either--at least garnered me some respect at the end of the discussion, mainly because people think I'm discussing ways to _improve_ the suggested governance of the program as opposed to outright arguing against it). I have three possible conclusions here: 1 - There's a reason the socialist debating points win so easily: which is that they're actually correct, and I'm fooling myself. 2 - Libertarianism has a serious philosophical issue with being too abstract. 3 - I really, really fucking suck at debating. I'm thinking it's the third, but I have to say I'm getting more and more sympathetic to 1 as I've been able to win debates (EASILY) by lying that I'm a socialist. Thoughts? Am I right? If so, help appreciated. If not, let's hear it.
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I feel like this is how the personality types for each belief are.
>>5147 You argue too much about things becoming better without government, while the bigger issues is things becoming WORSE with government. Arguing with socialists cannot be done on the basis of "Lack of government" solves this issue because they see the issue as something top-down that needs to be fixed, while a libertarian sees the issue usually as something that will fix itself slowly over time. Example: Poverty is seen by a socialist as something that needs direct intervetion. A libertarian knows that you cannot outright "solve" poverty, you can lessen the impact of poverty and the simple fact is that government involvement actually digs bigger of a hole and makes everyone more poor rather than helping the ones at the bottom. There will always be poor people, but there will be less poor people in a Libertarian society than in a socialist one, simply because there is no government to fuck things up even more. You can point to how ineffective the programs of helping the poor actually are and how they are basically wasting money and actually harming the poor more than helping them, while private charity actually has done more for the poor while being cucked by the government
>>5148 >That's actually the girl's room on the right, not the chad's room.


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