>>56428 You're preaching to the choir anon. It's no less empty a sentiment than when Marvel toots their own horn over "comic accuracy". These cunts dont read comics. All they know is skinsuiting.

>>56421 I meant "Exceptions" in regards to how quickly the porn died down after the series ended. >>56425 >he deliver's wannabe troma slop What do you mean be "wannabe", Gunn got his start working for Troma.

>>56425 >>56433 He needs to step away from his Troma roots. He's the leader of a brand now that's on it's last legs because they wasted money throwing it at projects for dead on arrival universes in live action & animated forms. Now is NOT the time to be taking risks like Peacemaker or Creature Commandos (in name only). He needs to embrace the comic book side that made people like his new Superman movie. Something that feels sincere & isn't afraid to just being comic book. Not camel toes, cuck orgies out of a jews fantasy, or NTR backstories. >>56427 When capeshit characters go public domain, they're pretty much just completely forgotten. People don't ever talk about or praise all the Dynamite books on public domain heroes. The big advantage for DC heroes is people know them already since they lasted compared to all the other companies. Excluding Marvel of course who's in the same boat. >>56428 His GotG movies are definitely not comic book faithful at all. I will give you that. But his Superman movie is a huge step in the right direction.

One recent example is “The sons of Themyscira” . This was a concept originating from the nu52, but despite this the comic version was more interesting than Gunn’s version. Every so often Amazons would have sex with sailors in order to get pregnant, and would them kill said sailors this is similar the Gargareans in the original myth, except they weren’t killed. This is how the Amazons have kids. Whenever male children are conceived, they get left on a rock to die leaving infants on rocks to die was a common practice in greece. However, Hephaestus, remembering how his mother left him on a rock to die, would rescue these children and raise them as his own. These are the Sons of Themyscira in the comic. In creature commandos, they’re just random dudebros who want to invade Themyscira so they can ride the giant kangaroos or whatever because misogyny. I can see why you wouldn’t want to adapt them exactly, given the nu52 story is a bit of a character assassination of the Amazons, but in that case you would just not adapt them exactly SoT at all. Instead Gunn just makes a version that’s infinitely less interesting.

>>56437 >I can see why you wouldn’t want to adapt them exactly, given the nu52 story And does no one ever tell them that's exactly part of the problem? I have not heard a single good thing about the DC universe post-Flashpoint. It's nothing but shit, but you still have these retards trying to force people to accept it, primarily because it's a the "politically correct" version of the characters that are in line with the "modern times". And it doesn't matter that they keep retconning shit to make pre-Flashpoint content canon because they're still trying to sell people on the idea of a nu52 DC universe. It's time to stop and abandon the project altogether. Hell, put every fucking thing having to do with DC on hold to give the public a break for at least a few years. But these retards are never going to do that because "Well lose money" in a market where the comics don't sell, cable/streaming subscriptions are getting cancelled, the theaters are empty, and the games get shut down. It's time to stop.

>>56437 >>56439 Yeah Gunn's example there is just an excuse to shove in his petty strawman politics. But in general the use of modern comics that no one likes or reads being used as the main inspiration needs to stop.

>>56433 >What do you mean be "wannabe", Gunn got his start working for Troma He never innovated, that's why I used the term "wannabe". All he could ever do was poorly regurgitate what came before. The entirety of Super was such a try hard mess, just the same with Brightburn.

>>56434 >Not camel toes, cuck orgies out of a jews fantasy, or NTR backstories. Guess what you're going to get. We've been here before. Remember how bright the future of DC seemed back in 2012? All the deep cuts who got some time in the limelight on DC Nation? What did we get out of it? Teen Titans Go and series of consecutively worse DTV movies which have still never recovered. If you havent caught wise to his plans to take the ship down with him then you're in for a world of hurt. It doesnt matter to Gunn if "this is the last chance" for capes. What matters is that he gets his way to the letter. >When capeshit characters go public domain, they're pretty much just completely forgotten I'm so tired of this argument. Unlike before things will be different now. All the heavy hitters will be free to use. The capeshit audience is starved for capekino. This is why Catman is doing so well (if only Austin would release the fucking movie already). Likewise why you see so much fervor around Invincible, The Boys, etc. Project Super Powers and the existing PD pantheon of capeshitters arent directly comparable to the likes of Batman and Superman. The few that are like Namor, Captain Marvel, and Plastic Man are all deeper cut favorites that disappeared for decades at a time and lack the sheer media prescence some of the up and comers do.

>>56434 >But his Superman movie is a huge step in the right direction. Yeah nothing says the future is bright quite like a mixed race Hawkgirl caving in Netanyahu's head. I was especially filled with excitement when Superman started crying like a 14 year old about his relationship. Please give me a break.

>>56437 It would atleast give the Amazons more depth than "glorious race of infallible super women". It's been said before but the larger issue in this instance is how little DC, Gunn, Warner, etc care about Wondy. Nearly a century and the only time we ever saw a full exploration of the super princess angle was the Linda Carter show. Wondy is possibly the most underutilized and painfully overlooked DC icon. For the last 20 year's she's been butchered into this bisexual barbarian murderer. She's DC's equivalent to Thor down to their criminal mishandling and disrepect of her character.

>>56449 Specifically with Diana, part of the problem is that her entire existence is prime material that can be easily hijacked by political mouthpieces. Ignoring anything having to do with nu52, her origin story is that she's princess from a magical island made up exclusively of female warriors. Given how politically charged majority of today's creatives are, there is no way that you absolutely CANNOT fuck that up. And even a glance at her creation sort of indicates that she "always" existed as a political character, given she was based upon the ideal "Liberated Woman" for a hack BDSM polygamous feminist pick-up artist who's only real claim to fame was creating the polygraph.

>>56447 You're an idiot if you think public domain means people will make good movies out of them. No it just leads to grifters using the IP as a way to make cheap exploitative slop. >>56448 That didn't happen. Superman didn't cry about his relationship. He cried over someone dying because of him. You don't have to like the movie but you're arguing in bad faith.

>>56456 Alot of good can still be done with her, but I recognize all the points you're making. It's quite sad that she's fallen so far. It makes me want to see her given a fair shake all the more. For years now I've wanted to explore two distinct angles with her. The first being a 90's Disney take tonally reminiscent of their Hercules adaption and hinging on her innocence and purity. The second taking its cues from classic She-Ra and the ill fated Wonder Woman and the Star Riders pitch. In both instances I really want to drive home the super princess dynamic because it's never been played right imo. Realistically we should have had a Silver Age incarnation that really embraced the fairy tale side of things, but to my knowledge it never really happened. We jumped from her golden age years, to her time with the justice league, right into a spyfi iteration that few took to before going back to her golden age roots. Jesus anon did you really need to add starro rape to your reply? Furthermore we need to put a rest to that sort of talking point. There exists this inescapable cynicism around capeshit nowadays which must be bulldozed and ignored. It is especially heightened anytime a new movie comes out and everybody decides they're self appointed experts on a given character. Yes I recognize the inception of capeshit came about as WW2 propaganda, but for nearly a century now they have evolved to be so much more. Shackle your world view to the bitter truth of their humble beginnings and see how far that gets you. Everywhere I turn now I see legions of users actively discouraging action to turn the tide of the cultural rot we find ourselves in. That isnt how you turn a new leaf, and that definitely isnt how you get out of the jam we're currently in.

>>56457 Already there are hundreds of oldfag comic creators who ecstatically look forward to getting their chance to really take these characters for a spin. Chuck Dixon, Rob Liefield, & Jon Bogdanov are just a few of the names that come to mind. Whether you like them or not has nothing to do with the underlying point. The virtue of these characters being the big names that they are means things will be different this go around. Will there be exploitative low quality works? Undoubtedly so. Does that mean no worthwhile earnest works will come about? Certainly not. You're delusional to insist otherwise. Once again I must point to the shroud of pervading cynicism and negativity looming around this genre now. I recognize most are tired and demoralized as a result of 15 years of heinous dogshit, but that can all change when you decide it should. Otherwise just stew in your misery until you find the motivation to jump off a bridge. >You don't have to like the movie but you're arguing in bad faith. Enjoy the movie if you want, but refrain from shoving the damn thing down my throat as the miraculous new beginnings to a brighter tomorrow. It made HALF as much money as fucking Aquaman. Audience reception to the film is about as divided as it was with Last Jedi. It is another tonally disjointed Gunn therapy session marketed as a capeshit flick for kids and tweens. Superman deserves better and has gotten better in the past. Those who see Gunn's efforts or that equally awful superman ""anime"" as innate positives are defenders of the decline and deserve scorn. They're no different from the mindless MCU consumers who praise all the direct to D+ slop that gets shat out into their laps.

>>56459 >The first being a 90's Disney take tonally reminiscent of their Hercules adaption and hinging on her innocence and purity. The second taking its cues from classic She-Ra and the ill fated Wonder Woman and the Star Riders pitch. >In both instances I really want to drive home the super princess dynamic because it's never been played right imo. <What about the "Wonder Woman Adventure" series, a book trilogy about a still-in-training Diana? I'll admit that I have been tempted to pick up first pic just because of how cute the cover is. >Spoiler Well, it's "true" to her character. :^) >Yes I recognize the inception of capeshit came about as WW2 propaganda, but for nearly a century now they have evolved to be so much more. Yes and no. The problem is that we already got the best renditions of the characters that we are ever going to get. You have everything from Superfriends to the DCAU to the Dark Knight Trilogy. It's all material that has taken the best aspects of the characters, in all their different incarnations, and made them characters that people knew and loved. All that's left after reaching that point is exactly what's going on, deconstruction, meaning that it's finally time to move on and let these characters rest. >Everywhere I turn now I see legions of users actively discouraging action to turn the tide of the cultural rot we find ourselves in. "Fixing" these characters is not going to "fix" nor "help" the culture war. If you want to "help" matters, then make your own original characters who go on their own original advantures. Otherwise all you're doing is just showing society that our best days are behind us as we, yet again, recycle century old characters and properties. >>56461 >The virtue of these characters being the big names that they are means things will be different this go around How did that work out for The Lone Ranger, a character and series that, despite it's massive popularity, hasn't been relevent since the 1980's? <And who's last "real" relevance was a guest cameo on The Greatest American Hero Or just drop capeshit for a moment and think about other media, like Star Wars. Prior to Disney buying it, it was the most popular franchise to ever exist, a recognized name everywhere, printed money with whatever it did, and has touched every single corner across the globe. However little over a decade later, the series is deader than a doornail, despite universally praised "good" works coming out like Andor and The Mandolorian. Similar thing with Star Trek, despite Strange New Worlds. After all of this shit, do you really think the public will "return", even if you get the "right creatives" in place to make new content? It's time to move on.

>>56461 >Rob Liefeld comics >selling or being good Chuck Dixon's the only one that could really do something with him but aging comic book creators that are constantly dying can't afford to wait for when everything goes public domain. Or expect the recapture the magic they had before. Aquaman made money because it was a unique spectacle movie starring a likable actor from a director normies like even though he makes slop horror. Superman came out after the Snyderverse fatigue, Joker 2 being a spiteful sabotaged film, & the failed cheap animated movie universe 2.0. People were too cautious to go all in on it.

>>56463 I dont bother with modern YA trash and neither do most of today's youth. It talks down to them and is largely just another avenue for millenial therapy porn and globohomo propaganda. I also dont agree with the notion that these's character's best days are behind them. The push for original ideas is valid but it rejects the blatant reality of our current output. Aside from a few exceptions, all modern indie capes are dated deconstructions. The few that arent are forgettable and lack any tie in media. There are tons of creator owned characters that merit adaptions but will never get one. Nexus, Destroyer Duck, a ton of the Image originals, etc. You're admitting defeat on both fronts by burying the legacy contenders and doubling down on muh original ideas in this day and age. Case in point, you dont get Ben 10 without the DCAU or Teen Titans 2003. The Lone Ranger also isnt public domain. The issues he faces are apart of a larger problem which goes on largely ignored in our circles, that being corporate/creator neglect. Between the 1981 film and Disney's 2011 reboot, what significant Lone Ranger media even came out? Look at Zorro, even into the 2010's he was still getting media. He has a dedicated following, if even a small one. Same deal with the Power Rangers. The larger solution might be directly marketing to small niche fanbases, but buy and large nobody is willing to have that conversation. We've been hoodwinked into believing the only sort of worthwhile success is hollywood raping your IP over a bed of hot coals to maximize profits in a bid for as widespread appeal as possible. That method has killed all the franchises you mentioned and capeshit to boot. You pointed to Project Super Powers as an example of the wider obscurity and undesirability of PD heroes without realizing how dedicated a following that series had before it too was ruined. Look into Femforce too. It's got a 50 year run and subsisted off releasing a single issue per year, every year, since 1970. It can work but like I noted, our perceptions of success are warped. Every IP must be a whore or else its a failure. The goal shouldnt be to win back the public, atleast not in the short term, it should be to win back the fans or at the very least build something new for them to call their own.

>>56464 I dont care about your opinions of these creators. The point is they're still making big money. They're still movers and shakers ever 30+ years after their heydays. Even if (YOU) dont like one of them, some other capefag does. We shouldnt rely on them but they're valueable in anycase. A phoenix cant rise from nothing. I dont care about your copes and theories behind why certain movies succeeded and others didnt. At the end of the day the point is the same. Capeshit is in decline and the "Gunnverse" is far from the solution.

>>56466 I only criticized Rob Liefeld. He gets by on irony. Not because he's a good writer or artist. It's simple logic. You continue to argue in bad faith.

>>56465 >all modern indie capes are dated deconstructions And they wonder why no one is reading comics anymore. >You're admitting defeat on both fronts by burying the legacy contenders and doubling down on muh original ideas in this day and age. How? >Case in point, you dont get Ben 10 without the DCAU or Teen Titans 2003. That's not how it works as you also don't get Batman or Superman without The Shadow, Doc Savage, Ougon Bat, John Carter, or The Continental Operative. >The Lone Ranger also isnt public domain. So? >The issues he faces are apart of a larger problem which goes on largely ignored in our circles, that being corporate/creator neglect I'd rather properties be "neglected" than trotted every few years because the company needs money. >Between the 1981 film and Disney's 2011 reboot, what significant Lone Ranger media even came out? There was the failed WB pilot. I don't see your point. >Look at Zorro, even into the 2010's he was still getting media I haven't heard of it. I know Amazon is doing some series, but the last Zorro related material I (Or anyone else, for that matter) gave a shit about is the Antonio Banderas films. And you know what, there's no problems with that. >Same deal with the Power Rangers. Each Power Rangers series (And Super Sentai, which it's based upon) is largely indepedent from each other with different characters and plot devices. It's nothing at all comparable to Zorro as Zorro is Don Diego de la Vega, a Mexican atristocrat living in California. However the Red Ranger in PR/SS is a different character, with a different team, and different goals every season. The Red Mighty Morphin Ranger Jason Scott is entirely different from the Red Lightspeed Rescue Ranger Carter Grayson, who is entirely different from the Red Time Force Ranger Wes Collins and so on. >You pointed to Project Super Powers as an example of the wider obscurity No, I didn't. You're talking about a different Anon. >It can work but like I noted, our perceptions of success are warped. Do you not realize your hypocrasy when, just three paragraphs above, you said: <There are tons of creator owned characters that merit adaptions but will never get one. Enough with the fucking adaptations. If you want people to get "back on track" with what makes a comic, or ANYTHING for that matter, "successful" here's what you need to do: make something. And if someone is willing to pay money for that, congratulations, you're a success. It's as simple as that. If you want to take things further, then make something, that enough people are willing to pay money for, so that you can earn enough money to pay your bills. That's all that needs to happen. >it should be to win back the fans The fans are gone. I know that well enough because I'm a fan of several series like Sonic the Hedgehog. However the series effectively "died" after Generations, and there's nothing Sega can put out that will ever make me want to get invested into the series again. And that's a fact that these companies and you idiots need to realize. I'm not going to cream my pants just because you through up a familiar name and silhouette on screen. >or at the very least build something new for them to call their own THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE FUCKING TIME!!!

>>52569 You are arguing that a criticism of communism is specifically about authoritarian communism and that the critic actually loves communism. Therefore, this "authoritarian communism" is just "doing communism wrong", and criticism of it isn't criticism of communism in general because essentially "it's a bad type of communism where they're doing it wrong" is just a sister argument to "it's not real communism, they're just doing it wrong". Authoritarianism happens in the end regardless though, which is why the "it's not real communism" meme exists. So ultimately, it's still a criticism of communism, even if you grant the critic didn't intend to critique anything more than a "a subset of communism that's wrong".

>>53388 >I use to sit like that all the time as a kid. Did you have relatively small testicles or something? Shit's uncomfortable. >>52550 >>52657 >>53571 Why did Mike Judge agree to do anything this low quality? I'm surprised at the people here saying this doesn't look bad. Have standards really fallen that low? >>53560 >Has anyone else noticed how much modern society absolutely loathes their parents to the point that they outright cut them out of their life entirely? I know that there are shit ones out there, but not "every" parent is terrible. My parents did drugs behind my back and let me subsidize their lifestyle by paying for all the food and utilities when I thought they were struggling fincially. My mother has done unspeakable things and my father is in an "open relationship" where he's trying to build himself a harem that includes transsexuals. I met one of them myself, and he was the stereotypically obnoxious type that got pissed at service workers and government clerks for not reading his mind on what he wanted to be called. Not pissed at me, I ignored the fucker as much as possible and never referred to him. My parents like to pretend nothing is wrong, but I don't interact with them any more than necessary. It's asking for trouble at this point. >And even then, more often than not, it's because they didn't have good role models to refer to either on how to "be an adult". This an excuse that leads to a rabbit hole of playing the generational blame game until nobody is responsible for anything because the blame all lies with long dead people. People with bad parents can turn out good and people with good parents can turn out bad. Don't just throw out free will. >>53777 >Unlike Superman, people need to see HER origins because the average person isn't familiar with her I swear I've seen her origin story at least three different times across various cartoons and cartoon movies and it's been slightly different each time. Does she have a "unified idea" of how she came to be like Superman and most of the biggest heroes do in the multiverse? >>54025 I would agree if the treadmill was a metaphor, but they made it a literal treadmill. >>55139 >The director has nothing to do with the movie Can I smoke what you got? >>55149 >definately >>55150 >we You're both insufferable, both the baiter and the biter. >>55472 You mean mean [CURRENT YEAR]+10? >>55893 >So heckin' quirky And valid! >>56426 >Buy and large >>56427 >leads me to believe we'll not just a return to form for these characters, but something far greater entirely. What inspires such blind optimism? >>56456 >Wuohnder Woman

>>56484 >Why did Mike Judge agree to do anything this low quality? I'm surprised at the people here saying this doesn't look bad. Have standards really fallen that low? Have you ever considered that the guy just isn't the "great creator" you thought he was in the first place? >Don't just throw out free will. The problem goes both ways. Role models are important in people lives and development. And if it's not one's parents, then it's something else. And you are correct that people "should" be independent, but how does that work when you're in an environment where the only way of getting ahead is being a certified jackass? Consider the situation in a lot of third world countries like India, where the average person is a con artist because that's all anyone ever sees when it comes to how one "gets ahead". Similar things in West Taiwan, where people there believe that the "secret" to success is being a member of the CCP and exploiting the rest of society. Not saying this is a "universal" rule or view on those countries, as there have been more than enough people who have left those countries entirely because they despised those lifestyles and wanted something better, but role models do play an important part in people's attitudes and views.

>>56484 Sorry about your family situation man, shit like that sucks and always leaves its mark pretty harshly.

>>56484 Supergirl's origins constantly changed since the beginning. Pretty sure her first appearance version wasn't even real. A director's comments can be completely wrong about what the movie he made actually contains. Again look at Starship Troopers or Paul Verhoeven in general. Or Alan Moore for a comic book writer example. A director or writers intentions don't always align with what they actually make.

>>56517 >A director or writers intentions don't always align with what they actually make. You mean like what happened with Joker? How people flocked to that movie. And then the very creators of the first film set out to make a sequel that shit on everyone who enjoyed the first one.

>>56531 Kinda. In the sense that he intended for audiences to hate Arthur & take his spiral as a cautionary tale. But the audience ended up sympathizing with him instead. Joker 2 is a different issue of spite for that audience of the first.

>>56532 Okay, but there's also the difference. They never expressly said how people are suppose to "view" Joker before the film came out, same thing with Watchmen. IDK about Starship Troopers if the guy publicly expressed his opinion before or after the film's release. Gunn has, however. told people how we're suppose to see and view Superman, and it's part of the promotional campaign for the movie. And as a result of that, I have zero desire to see this movie in theaters. This is in addition to all the other bullshit he's stuffed into his other series. So at the end of the day, no matter how "good" the material, I am not going to watching anything new that has Gunn's name attached to it. And no matter how many times that is said, it doesn't seem to sink in.

>>56533 No Gunn's remarks were not about the character that people that issue with. It's what his broad statements are saying. It's more comparable to Verhoeven who outright said he wanted his Starship Troopers to be a satirical jab at the fascist military society he viewed the book setting as. Yes he also admitted he didn't even finish the book but that's not relevant. Gunn only said the movie was about immigrants. Implying a pro immigration message at a time when that's being cracked down on. There's nothing in the actual movie about an immigration narrative whatsoever though.

>>56492 >you thought he was in the first place? I'm not one of the guys constantly fellating him. OG Beavis and Butthead great. King of the Hill was great. Most of what I've see from here is people speaking as if the man can do no wrong, at least until they saw some clips and episodes of nu-KotH. My statement is directed at them. If he's so amazing, why is he lowering himself like this? >how does that work when you're in an environment where the only way of getting ahead is being a certified jackass? Maybe I just got lucky, but I've gotten moderately ahead by specifically not being an asshole, as I watch everyone around me constantly have it bite them in the ass. All I do is the bare minimum while actually fearing the potential consequences of trying to do stupid and petty shit. I think I took to heart from a young age the words "learn from the mistakes of others", and specifically "rebelled" against my parents by not emulating their bad behavior, rather than attempt to emulate any particular person.

>>56534 >Gunn only said the movie was about immigrants. Implying a pro immigration message at a time when that's being cracked down on. There's nothing in the actual movie about an immigration narrative whatsoever though. Doesn't matter. They were promoting the film on being a movie about "immigration". And looking at even your explanations of the plot, I can see how (In their minds) that is exactly what they did. And like I said, topping this shit sundae of a PR disaster for a film franchise that was suppose to "save" DC and WB by extension, you have CC attacking "incels" (Which might as well be 99% of the population) and Peacemaker coming out of the closet just when we thought Johnny-Boy's dicksucking couldn't get any worse. If this how are these creators are treating these properties that they're in charge of, there is nothing that can be said or done that would give me a reason to set aside time out of my day in order to watch this shit. Why such a statement seems to drive you up the walls is what I'd say is the real topic of discussion here. >>56535 >Maybe I just got lucky, but I've gotten moderately ahead by specifically not being an asshole, as I watch everyone around me constantly have it bite them in the ass. All I do is the bare minimum while actually fearing the potential consequences of trying to do stupid and petty shit. I think I took to heart from a young age the words "learn from the mistakes of others", and specifically "rebelled" against my parents by not emulating their bad behavior, rather than attempt to emulate any particular person. All I can say is good on you for not letting yourself become a victim and managing to turn your life around. Hopefully the same can happen to your folks.

>>56484 Sounds like your parents hate their parents.

>>56580 They do. On one side there's trailer trash we never associated with much, and on the other side I lived with my grandmother for a while, and she burned all her money on illegal pills, fancy food, & farmville, and was also a kleptomaniac. The only relative I knew that I ever felt was a good person died, and I wish I had spent more time with him as a kid. I didn't know him well enough to model myself after him though.

>>56581 >The only relative I knew that I ever felt was a good person died, and I wish I had spent more time with him as a kid. I didn't know him well enough to model myself after him though. Reminds me a bit of my father talking about how he really adored this one uncle of his, that the rest of the family hated but he always treated by dad right. And he was distraught a few years back to find out that this uncle had passed and my aunts never told him word-one about it until months later because "Well, no one really liked him".

>>56449 Is the 2009 animated movie good?

>>56609 It was alright.