>>14530 Another thing I read, there are therapies that make use of the human capacity to learn through acting and other unique phenomena of experience and visualization and belief and sensations. Now hypnosis, exposure therapy, psychodrama, tulpa forcing and stanislavski's system do not seem to me so different from magick or shamanism.

Congratulations, you've discovered Chaos Magic. Belief and Will are the core of all magical acts. Everything else is just fluff. Fluff can be useful, of course. But the most powerful truths are always very simple.

>>14530 >Mesmer influence on masonry Wait what? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GYVVtKgIeTE There is more western esoterism history in comment box.

>>14595 >Mesmer Yep, Mesmer and >Amand-Marie-Jacques de Chastenet, Marquis of Puységur These have influence on Masonry lodges (and this guy more on Scientific Hypnosis than Mesmer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amand-Marie-Jacques_de_Chastenet,_Marquis_of_Puységur He say' to a Masonry lodge course on animal magnetism >I believe in the existence within myself of a power. >From this belief derives my will to exert it. >The entire doctrine of Animal Magnetism is contained in the two words: Believe and Want. >I believe that I have the power to set into action the vital principle of my fellow-men; I want to make use of it; this is all my science and all my means. >Believe and want, Sirs, and you will do as much as I. where's the part he say love under your will? Lol — Marquis de Puységur "Believe and want" I know its not the context but still sound like Chaos Magick and maybe like other systems of belief-placebo-sugestion-magick. >Also You can study history of Pre-Scientific-Hypnosis and the firsts ideas or schools of esoteric thought around it like alchemy to chemist or astrology to astronomy: https://paulkiritsis.net/down-the-rabbit-hole/the-concept-of-dissociation-franz-anton-mesmer-and-the-marquis-de-puysegur/ >The school of traditional materialists. >The school of psycho-fluidists >The school of magnetizers.

>>14530 Yeah, but would you be able to summon pussy and dough at will if you wanted to? Have you even tried? Because if not, you're just an armchair magician. No better than an amateur art historian. You can enjoy the intellectual aspect of it a lot, and I do, but if you can't objectively change your physical reality for yourself and others, you are not a magician. >the influence of Mesmer is very obvious Well, no matter what you call it, it's very obvious for any practicing magician that the underlying mechanism for any kind of magic is what you might call "slipping information in and out of the subconscious". But yeah, congrats on your realization. There's so much more if you practice relentlessly!

>>14702 >Summon boipussy at will with hypnosis You rlly can do that? Damn

>>14530 >>14751 I don't know what this is, the only thing I know about brainwaves is that I started experimenting with meditation and hypnosis to enter an alpha state (or produce some alpha waves) before sleeping and since then I have strange dreams and maybe "paranormal" experiences that I can't rationalize with everything I know about science because: the suggestive state of mind, apophenia, pareidolia, coincidences and altered state of consciousness falls very short as an explanation and even ockham's razor not helps here without saying that I lost my mind and strange things just happen. >Also Moreover, I have the theory that those people who do rituals when waking up and before sleeping like the lbrp, banishing, summoning, actually do the same as me only more ritualized and that's why they see and feel strange things after a while. The use of knifes (or Athame) Swords, Sticks (maybe less dangerous but still hypnotic) and etc are used in some hypnosis techniques. Maybe this is the mere suggestive state of mind or there's something.

>>14808 You know I am a materialist, I believe in the theory that sleep is just physical stimuli, stimuli in relation to the nervous system and the body and one's own emotional state responding to those stimuli seconds before waking up or even our own ability to control dreams. The problem is when you feel that something invaded you in the dream and it is an entity or third person and I already had nightmares succubus style and this time it was not the same. I have the idea that I pressed one of my ears (there's a special organ here) during sleep and hallucinated voices but it does not fit my experiences, maybe the alpha state prior to sleep increases creativity or stimuli senses and this changed my scheme of what I interpreted as general dreams (although sleeping takes you to other deeper states and I do not know about this topic because I did not study it, let's assume that as you start sleeping immediately triggers the dream at the end added to physical stimuli and emotional state). I dreamed with a shadow-hatman like but was not a bad or eerie dream, not so much comfy but ok and fun to me. Yep.

>>14799 >summon bodhidharma Just zazen it.

>>14825 >Just zazen it. Maybe you can do that with pure land techniques. Well, buddha is reincarnating in yourself at the moment you start to read his Dharma teaching. A tulpa of buddha sound dull to me >Anon: Teach me the secrets tantra lord buddha! >Buddha: No Anontteyā , do Mettā. >Anon: Ok, May i be... May.... fuck.

>>14530 Hello again, there's your limited belief (maybe) atheist anon again I was reading the book The New Hermetics: 21st Century Magick for Illumination and Power. And if this is all that magicians do, it's hypnosis. Yes, it's all hypnosis. Damn it. The curious thing is that there are many ceremonial magic techniques, whether individual or group, that are exactly the same as those used in psychodrama or even visualization therapies, which use exposure therapy to fears with visualizations. The most interesting thing about the CBT model is that after using phrases, beautiful reinforcements are used. Buddhists in the practice of metta have something similar when they say sadhu, sadhu, sadhu... at the end of metta (hypnosis do same saying Good or excellent) The more I investigate, the more magic I find in therapeutic and scientific techniques. Even in the already rejected NLP model (very pseudociensce hypnosis), there is a technique similar to LBRP, except that they do not invoke angels or elementals but use rings and colored energies, somewhat similar to the Gnostic Caoist LBRP. i read somewhere that some NLP are back in time ceremonial mages.

>>16579 Yes, that is correct. All magic is hypnosis. But how do you reconcile the fact that often times the effects of these hypnotic techniques manifest not as potentially psychosomatic changes in body function but in direct observable modifications in the operator's external environment?

>>16579 I also read a text by Carroll Runyon on hypnosis https://archive.org/details/magick-and-hypnosis in which she says that it is a powerful tool during rituals, but admits that everything is hypnosis. I think Dion Fortune, Crowley, and many others involved in psychic magic, Chaoism, and post-modern magic (RAW) have already accepted this. >Tatrak - Kasina is Eye fixation The Tatrak-Kasina technique as training is literally the eye fixation of clinical hypnosis. >Energy hands - Reiki hands - Vital energy hands is Magnetics hands The energetic hands of chi, reiki, or vitalist techniques are the magnetized hands technique of hypnosis. There are a large number of equivalent techniques whose focus is training, or rather becoming aware of suggestion and focused attention on something, be it the body, or an object to achieve the ideomotor effect or a psychological sensation in the body. I have not yet delved deeply into hypnosis, but the CBT model does not talk about trance or the subconscious because it denies it. Hypnosis with trance exists, but it is unnecessary. Many of the myths, such as being asleep or mind control, are not even true. It is only partly one's own willpower, belief, and suggestion. However, it is possible to enter a hypnagogic-trance-altered state of consciusness, as far as I understand, increase the capacity for visualization. I do not know if this surpasses apanthesia, but it is very similar to active meditation or guided meditation.

>>16582 >But how do you reconcile the fact that often times the effects of these hypnotic techniques manifest not as potentially psychosomatic changes in body function but in direct observable modifications in the operator's external environment? I was trying to overcome my limiting beliefs i not a woo-woo believer or new age shit, i want to know everything and read some rejected or ignored studies on hypnosis, and there are a couple about how hypnosis can enlarge women's breasts or even make them produce milk, which is similar to the effect of false pregnancies (there is an older, more scientific approach to hypnosis that is unrelated to CBT, which is based more on the idea of self-deception, although of course, at this point even the definition of hypnosis is a mess; they seem like magical models). the problem with these studies is the replication (and sometimes sound like a joke, the fake pregnancy maybe is posible but breast enlargment... uhh?)

>>16582 >So what's magick for you? If I had to adhere to a model, I think RAW was onto something strange with the idea of the observer and the confirmer (I think that's what he called it). In Prometheus Rising, he has some exercises for “manifesting,” as our new tought and new-age friends would say, although it's not about visualizing a ladder (goddar do this?) but rather exposing yourself to a mental visual image (an exposure), deceiving the observer so that the confirmer finds it. I did several of the exercises and had no luck finding the coin, but I did find a rather nice pareidolia one day after I stopped doing them (like lost from memory a sigil maybe lol) In one of the self-hypnosis manuals I read a exercise to demonstrate brief attention, just by reading “look for everything blue in the room you are in,” I automatically made everything blue in my room stand out. There was another exercise looking for red and so on, and yes, it's works. However, if I had to adhere to another model, even if it sounds Woo-Woo because I am materialistic (although I can overcome this, but I am hesitant to believe it completely because I am starting to become agnostic about all the freak-fringe-nonsense maybe I have seen), I believe that hypnosis unlocks some kind of psychic powers or a schizoid mode of mind like the old shamans or something. either that, or they are just the effects of therapeutic techniques uncontrolled by the placebo and regression to the mean and the expectation that something will happen, the observer observes, the confirmer confirms. I think I am in what RAW claimed to be the final battle between Schodinger's cat (some fringe inefable shit) and Pavlov's dog (some pure materialist thing). I' not sure anymore of anything.

>>16583 >I also read a text by Carroll Runyon on hypnosis Picrel, These parts are the most interesting in the text. I also read somewhere that mystics used hypnotic techniques similar to eye fixation with their students. Sufis and some yogis use them, although the context is different. >Also I think it would be easier to find a book on hypnosis, suggestibility, and training to enter a trance as preparation for ceremonial magic or magick. I don't think Liber Null explained it very well. Well, no book on magick i readed explained it, although the one I mentioned above, Hermeticism 21 century etc, comes very close to the mentality of hypnosis and deepening it to visualize or evoke things. What's more, it's the first book that teaches how to visualize, although it doesn't mention the subject of apanthesia. I think I need to delve even deeper into the hypnotic mindset (at least that's what they call it in the scientific CBT hypnosis therapy model) or trance or hypnagogia or profound attention to achieve it. well, maybe Gnosis it's just Hypnosis? HypnoGnosis? lol

>>16604 I had found a website by someone trying to explain the history of hypnosis, and I think he related it to magick at end, but I lost it. I only found this other website about another approach to hypnosis today, which is a scientific approach (the term hypnosis has been bastardized, even suggestion makes anysense now). It sounds like the ideas of chaos magic, curiously enough. https://www.cosmic-pancakes.com/blog/pheno-control Thanks to the Wiz-ards anons.

>>16615 interesting.

>>14530 I was watching some chi kung, qi gong, or whatever it's called, exercises of energy. I also saw a Chinese master who looked like a buddhist monk explaining the subject to a Westerner, although the language barrier made his explanations a little clumsy; he admitted that he didn't speak English very well. At one point in the conversation, the monk said that when you feel the chi at a certain point, you manage to let yourself flow through the movements as if your mind were controlling them, which is something they seek to achieve through martial arts and repetition. Qi gong energy hands are the same as magnetic hands. I find it funny to see people on the internet surprised by the magnetic-energy-force effect in hands, although of course the hypnosis model rejects the idea of cosmic or internal energy like the Chinese believe. I have been experimenting with hypnosis, and I have a theory that this idea of flow in psychology and the Chinese master's concept are the same as the ideomotor effect of hypnosis. The master describes it as the mind over the body or even as possession, which is exactly what I felt when experimenting with hypnosis. Several chi kung qi gong exercises are the same as somatic exercises and even have a suggestive and relaxing effect to activate the vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system (I believe that the heat and light of the sun further enhances the feeling of energy.) to acquire a kind of body awareness, which I believe (this) affects the suggestive state of the mind over the body. >experimenting today Today I achieved a light progressive relaxation of the body, placed my legs pointing the sky in a wall, and I think I entered a deep state of relaxation along with a hypnotic mindset. Although I didn't achieve visualizations, it felt like sleeping but I was very aware of my surroundings. I think it was a bit similar to when I meditated with kasina and got too relaxed. The idea of jhana comes close, although for me it was a state of focused attention and relaxation, as if my ears had stopped hearing the sounds around me but I was awake, the same thing happened to me one day while practicing Vipassana. It was fun. This book >>16579 have some nice guides with focused-meditation-hypnosis on relaxation and trance-hypnosis for visualizations and other things: although I haven't yet read about the ideas on correspondences and so on, I'm not sure if I'll be able to achieve anything if I have apanthesia. >Tattwas I read somewhere that training with tattwas trains visualization, although the book itself has a practice. I wasn't able to visualize with the kasinas back in time while i do buddhist techniques, although I did have a temporary retinal burn while practicing, which is typical for meditation with closed eyes lol >Also I haven't yet acquired the ability to enter a deep trance to achieve an advanced state of visualization, although doing hypnosis when I wake up and go to sleep has become very relaxing and has led me to start having interesting dreams. Today, before waking up, I was in a kind of nightmare panic situation, and strangely, I felt in control and just repeated one of the CBT model practices instinctively: “Relax, relax.” I relaxed a lot and woke up from the dream. It was fun. I wonder if this could be considered a stage of some kind of dream-sleep yoga, but I became very aware of the dream. However, I believe that if I can have dreams, I can visualize things; I just need to enter a deeper trance.

>>14530 Well, I'm still here. I learned, felt, and saw amazing and wonderful things through hypnosis, meditation, and magick. and I still have a lot more to learn Thanks you very much to all anons. >Also Here's a gift, take my book about Scientific Self-Hypnosis CBT model, maybe it can help you. All humans have the right to be happy, to have love, and to have peace. Good luck with your life journey and sleep well. >Be more human every day until the end of times, every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better and more human.