The language of Creation, of course.

>>2620 Yeah what even is that supposed to mean though.

>>2622 Every atom is a word. Every word has its meaning. Recognition of meaning is how Creation is moved.

>>2622 >>2626 Just say it, it's Hebrew.

>>2627 Hello botsoul golem.

>>2628 Can someone who knows japanese tell me how legit is that pic? I know they have katakana hiragana and kanji but I don't know which is which. I know one of those was created by the anglos after WW2 to solve the high illiteracy of the populace and to integrate them into their "commercial empire" before the soviets overtake them while kanji was shared or taken from the chinese and koreans more or less. Not to mention hebrew also went through changes as they "rediscovered it" and created yiddish or however they call it. I am pretty sure that meme is so accurate that a linguist would start a ragefit once seeing it but I will ask it here first because there are people who study japanese might know.

>>2630 You should ask rather how accurate the Hebrew is. The Japanese is correct, but it refers only to parts of the kana (katakana and hiragana). I'll ignore what you said to avoid confusion and just say what I've learned when studying Japanese: Kanji is the same as traditional Chinese writing. The main difference is in the readings, the pronunciations, which from a Japanese context includes the "kun" reading which is unique Japanese reading, and the "on" reading which is the original Chinese reading. "on" refers to "sound" so it's treating Chinese as a mere sound instead of having an innate meaning. You can see this in manga where they use the "wrong" letters for something (more explanation follows). Most of what's in that image is katakana. These are derived from radicals, parts of kanji which are used to build up each kanji character. 女 "onna" =woman 子 "ko" = child 好 "suki" = love Here example of how the radicals for woman and child, which also are independent kanji, when added creates a new kanji, "love". Katakana is used to spell out sounds, it's for writing out foreign words and sound effects. Sometimes this is used in manga where a Japanese word is written as a sound, to express some meaning where it's more of an "uh" expression for example, but sounds like w word. It's also used to spell out things like ホットドッグ "hottodoggu" = hot dog Hiragana on the other hand is simplified Kanji used to spell out the sounds of Japanese only. It was created by a monk in the 1500 as writing for women because learning kanji was only allowed for men. Because phonetic writing is easier to learn, this lead to many women becoming published writers early on. This influenced literary expressions with a focus on mostly meaningless observations of nature and social relations, because it was written by housewives in the upper class. This is still present as "slice of life" anime among other things.

>>2630 >one of those was created by the anglos after WW2 to solve the high illiteracy of the populace and to integrate them into their "commercial empire" before the soviets overtake them I think you are confusing this with modern Chinese, where they use roman letters to spell out words. Mao began this work, and you can now spell out any Chinese using roman letters in a standardized form supported by the government of China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin

More correct would probably be to say that both Japanese and Hebrew are based off Chinese writing.

>>2633 >Hebrew are based off Chinese writing

>>2630 You need someone who knows Aramaic, as the person who made that clearly didn’t. It’s mostly interesting, but bullshit. >>2632 Sir, what Mao did was recover simplified Chinese and standardize that. Chinese people care very little about Pinyin. That’s an ISO standard, and there were other phonetic systems before it. Also, Hebrew (Aramaic) has nothing to do with Chinese. The two writing systems aren’t even conceptually comparable. >>2630 >a linguist would ragefit Although I consider mainstreaming etymology mostly speculation, I did indeed rage at this whole thread. You need to know what you’re talking about before you start trying to think outside the box.

>>2618 In absolute terms, feeling as defined by Neville Goddard is the universal language of all creation. Aka “energy” or visceral knowledge (“gnosis” dare I say?). In human terms, I think Sanskrit is the most significant one due to how much you can trace from a lot of other languages back to it. But Chinese, Korean and Japanese are not included, and I’m not sure if there is something that would share roots with those. I do believe one single primordial language might have existed, but Sanskrit might be the best we have.

>>2632 After shutting down the PC I realized I was thinking about rōmaji https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Japanese >>2636 >It’s mostly interesting, but bullshit. Like most meme charts shared usually are. >Although I consider mainstreaming etymology mostly speculation This is the problem here. What level of linguistic precision you want from the thread? Most people are around layman levels and if you want something "deeper" then I have bad news because they will be also speculations legends or literally channeled knowledge from entities and for non-channellers that information is on a "dude trust trust the voices in[spoiler]me[spoiler]head" level. I could give you some examples that might make your noggin joggin but not sure if it helps. Like the name of G-d https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash is what grants you power over reality but for that you need to be extremely into Kabbalistic traditions so G-d will grant you the power to say the name. It has extreme levels of secrets contained that you can only use if you have a level of initiation into the system. Latin was used as a "magical language" because long ago the clergy spoke only in latin and scholarly knowledge was based around it. Not to mention back then the clergy was not as mundane as today and they got visions of saints and such. But if a saint was not speaking in latin then they were considered as demons or other malicious tricksters/false visions. Truth is many entities started to larp as saints once christianity started integrate their traditions and festivities into their system or they were merely subconscious hallucinations. If someone got a vision of a saint the clergy had to decide if those visions are legit or not and if you acted upon them without the approval of a religious authority you were deemed a heretic or a witch. This is why latin was paramount while using magic back then. They had to explain it's not 'vile sorcery' but miracles granted by Jesus Christ himself (Like how Jesus was the son of God and not just a random sorcerer that the jews dispute even today while Islam acknowledged Jesus as a prophet) Enochain is supposedly a channeled language but I'm not really knowledgeable about it. The words I receive from entities is not something I am planning to share with others because it's quite fuzzy. >I did indeed rage at this whole thread Yeah it's quite the atmosphere of the board in the past weeks. We will need to start some productive energies going again or it will be rage or lethargy if the posters don't start to behave and improve their ways. >You need to know what you’re talking about before you start trying to think outside the box Well... sometimes you have to forget everything you know to even have a chance to see the light that peers into the box at all. The problem with too much outside of the box knowledge that it's real hard to explain it to those that never really ventured out of these boxes at all. Establishing a rapport about these knowledge bases to sync them takes time and patience. >>2637 >In human terms, I think Sanskrit is the most significant one More or less. The problem with those mantras and other knowledge that was passed down their intonation the way you vibrate it how deep is you knowledge regarding the concept those mantras try to express are and how passionate/energizing the way you say them. They are supposed to link dimensions as you say them and those prayers require quite the recitals in some cases to work in the beginning. Truth is I don't have enough scholarly experience with these things to talk about them like a linguist would. I just work with entities and reading some sacred texts connects me to the other worlds... which gives me an even harder time to continue reading them as a mere "interest" because whenever I read sacred or religious texts I get "new friends" and I have way too many "friends" already and I am not always sure if I want more. Connecting to those energies is not always pleasant. Seeing the same things as prophets did is quite nice in the beginning but then you realize why they ended up so poorly in most cases. Some knowledge is more of a burden if you don't know how (or have the will) to use it correctly. Imagine trying to teach a Bushman how to program C++ when he never seen or heard about a computer and once the "channeling" starts he has no choice but to become a programmer within 3 days. Barriers within your mind break your flesh is going overdrive you feel sensations you never felt before you don't know if you are being killed or merely "taught" anymore. It's not easy to comprehend and it always depends on your ability/compatibility with the entities you work with. The higher or more out of world the entity the harder it is to internalize or receive the information they transmit. Ofc in the beginning it is a mere "idea share" like receiving glimpses of inspiration while taking a nap/meditating but as you open your mind you will realize the "real stuff" requires quite the dedication and a special kind of initiation into those "arts". I am not sure what approach should I take toward this thread yet. Should we talk about stuff other channelers received or figured out talk about the history of runes/sigils or tell the madness how I encountered these forces by myself. The latter is too taxing so I will only do it when the thread clearly shows it wants to go beyond mundane levels otherwise it's a waste of time for me and for the readers too. I am not the only channeller here but explaining Atlantean pronunciation is not something that we will start out of the blue. These sacred words connect you to their respective egregore or "God". But you need some levels of awakening and experience with these kind of things to do it right. Even I cannot say that I am doing it right at all. Especially if I do it too long I enter into a sort of "channellers high" that makes me unable to think straight for a while because the base energies of my psyche changed. Not sure what I wrote helped or made you realize this is not what you are looking for at all.

>>2640 I am not sure what the purpose of the thread is. Going by its usefulness in spell casting, talking about known languages I think some kind of pictogram sigils work best, and the places kanji/chinese on the map as a good example. If we are talking about channelling entities or communicating with them, I can say that from what I've learned, what we know as Chinese Writing/Kanji is a Galactic language used by deities who maintain the functioning of larger celestial bodies. As such it's not a universal language, it deal with only the macro-cosm. It took me a long time to see anything in the elder futhark, but its use was revealed to me after getting more into interactions with the norse entities and gods. This system only works when placed in context and the meaning cannot be seen outside of it. I think this is how most writing systems work, so if you want one which is "universal", you'd have to be at the scale of Universes. But that doesn't mean what we normally mean with "universal" in the context of human creations. I'm thinking about how in a computer, you call it a "global" thing if it applies everywhere, and if something is "universal" we mean it like "you can do this in any country". It isn't used to mean that it changes all settings or overrides all local rules, as with "global".

>>2642 So by this I mean to say, that we should first define what is meant by "universal" in this thread's context. Which level does the language operate on? Is it something which can be "used in all countries" but doesn't override local culture, or is it something leaning more towards the "global" in computer terms where it does override local culture?

>>2643 >we should first define what is meant by "universal" in this thread's context Ye >Is it something which can be "used in all countries" You made me realize I forgot to mention this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaking_in_tongues When the way you talk is just unintelligible noises but it creates a mindwave and people "understand" because it's like hypnotizing knowledge into the minds of others. I'm sure you need to be on a mad prophet level to pull it off because normal people would use their elevated charisma instead of this fun way of expression.

Sorry, this is probably going to send you down a massive rabbit hole like it did for me, but try looking up things about a group called the "Forgotten Languages Organization". there's a thread on ATS (Above top secret, its a forum). They seem to be working on synthetic languages, one of theirs is a proposed universal language called Cassini Diskus.

>>2661 >this is probably going to send you down a massive rabbit hole Yeah found the site and the forum post... So some vampires are sharing stuff in their archaic languages. To read them I would need to find a spirit that knows this stuff and channel a translation from it... and if I do that I will be noticed by these "nerds". As much as this sounds intriguing I'm not sure if I have the time and willingness to get into it deeper. If you can give a QRD for the general readers of your thread it would be appreciated or if you have a specific question relating to one of the weirdness they share and made you way too puzzled we might be able to answer or clarify some things (or make things even more confusing as we always do on /fringe/ whenever vampires become a topic) but this is an extremely specific knowledge and my intuitive translator skill only fires if I am way too invested in something. And whenever I use it I have to learn the conceptual understanding and history of some words. It fills my mind up with gibberish if I don't know how or what to use it for. The "chatterbox" part of my mind the "subconscious inner monologue" will just repeat phrases until I "get it" and it's annoying when I don't comprehend it's source anymore. Especially when some of my old soul memory suddenly starts picking up on some expressions and starts talking like it knows what is going on.

>>2661 This gave me a hardon. But 300 posts in the ATS thread they are talking about timelines and other shit. What gives?

In my own experience, languages, both for programming and speaking, teach you to think in very different ways. If that site is not a LARP, and there are people speaking languages old enough that they would be racist against _fucking indo-europeans_… That would be a huge augment to human thinking. I will have to dive into this shit soon.

Maybe the memetic properties of each language is a good starting point? I've heard people talk about a Japanese brain and it's differences to english/foreign speakers for example. Other than that im curious about what my true name is, how I would find out, and what language it would be (probably not human)

>>2856 >I've heard people talk about a Japanese brain and it's differences to english/foreign speakers for example It's just all about how your mind wires concepts together. As you advance in spirituality you will have to either unlearn a bunch of faulty conceptual wiring that your upbringing or societal programming etched into you or you will have to expand on most concepts so they gain a better "understanding" so to speak. Truth is concepts carry not just meaning but energy too. Letting go of faulty concepts is half the path and the other is learning how to evolve them. Once you learn how intent is being formed you can either learn to speak with intent only aka silence or with any language because intent will show you how it can be expressed in a way others can understand it. It's easy to learn languages once you connect to their egregore but they have a problem that they might limit your mind if the language is not advanced enough or incompatible with your conceptual understanding. The trick is to never "learn" a language but to speak it. Always try to speak it and not just "memorize it". Instead of creating rigid offline memory cells connect to the egregoe to the "cloud" by default. Language is all about connecting to others and once you connect to the culture it stems from you are golden. The problem of this approach is that once you don't speak it for a while or you are not making impactful memories with it it just fades away until you find the way the "words flow". >curious about what my true name is Elza Topeth according to some spirits that I have around. I don't get the full significance true names yet tbh. I cannot share the same obsession some occultists have with them. Names are supposed to be a "description" or at least a quality. Spirits use names that are compatible with their "senses" but it's complicated. Like if you taste something spicy you know it's pepper or salt and a concept relating to it appears in your mind. Spirits have a similar way of connecting to some concepts but I'm unsure how it works in great detail. Sometimes my mind autotranslates some words I find or hear but in some cases it struggles because the "context" is not apparent enough or the energy behind the words is wrong. >how I would find out By hearing the voices ofc. >what language it would be I don't know either. This is not really my expertise. Ancient and "spirit languages" are not properly established in the mundane mental framework. Every language has "spirit origins" to some degree but hard to see it. Sometimes I notice it in some words as I analyze it's etymology but hard to say which words were inspired by the primordial thinking and which were "made up" with the "modern analytical mind". You need to become a mystic to have a proper access to this thinking. My problem is that I have to evolve further to grasp it properly. I have to learn to let go of the "wordy thinking". I noticed in my youth that I "know" the answer but as I try to put it into words I forget it instantly. My teens were about making my brain able to catch up with my intuition. Now my problem is that I always think with infinite amount of words. Sometimes I have to tell my mind to "stop narrating" because it's unnecessary I "know" already but some parts of me want me to "say it" in my head. If I don't say it it's hard to make it into a "solid memory" and it gets forgotten like most dreams without enough emotional impact. >(probably not human) Yeah... also "true names" are not just about pronunciation but the energies it tries to represent. If you can match the energy it can become a "power word" and that is how occultist are supposed to make use of it. Their usefulness depends how well you can connect to it and bring it "to this world" aka express it. Sound and words travel "through the ether" and that is how it can bind the physical and the other side together but anchoring things is more complicated. Ultimately it depends on the entity and magic you are working with.

Some day I will understand this language.

>>8643 When shit like that appears then you are either on drugs or some entity is worming itself through your veil. Happened a lot in my early magic practice. Sometimes it is a sign of parasitic infection in your third eye.

This video explains a lot of this. This guy also has another video about symbols kinda working like language and how spells work. A bit too meta for me, but might be useful for someone here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPD7Vv4BQs

>>8643 Look like bugs there're real something like bugs in your eyes and skin you know? but maybe related to altered state of cons. Topic. >Also You know about form constants? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant The colors are... interesting, remembered me that thing of Tought forms of Teosophy, GD have some color usage like that. Kinda Psychodelic look but related to hardcore theory and associations of them. >Also No, i not nullify other's approachs >>8644

>>2862 Words can also be corrupted.

Philologist/cognitive linguist with specialisation in ancient languages and writing systems here. This is kinda part of my current research, so here I go. >>2618 >What language, real or theoretical, would be closest to a universal one? Anyone earnestly interested in this should read Umberto Eco's book "The Search for the Perfect Language". It gives a detailed historical, philosophical background for this exact question. >I mean by its qualities as a language and not just street cred like enochian or latin. So far I think it's maths Maths is an artificially created semiotic language used for, well, mathematical operations. Artificial semiotic languages differ from natural languages (e.g. English, Ugaritic). The function of natural language is to encode and transmit complex and subtle ideas. In cognitive linguistics, we assume that natural language reflects the structures of human mind, of thought and ideas. Encoding a complex thought into language is the so-called symbolic function of language (as compared to its interactive function, the transmission of thoughts). A symbol, in this context, is a "bit of language" - like meaningful subparts of words (anti-, de-, ...), whole words, or strings of words. These symbols consist of a form (a sound, and the written representation) and the meaning (the ideational or semantic content associated with the form). Our cognitive abilities integrate raw perceptual information (percepts) into a coherent and well defined mental image, which is called a concept. When we use language, we refer to the concept rather than to the object in the external world. The meanings encoded by linguistic symbols, then, refer to our projected reality: a mental representation of what's "out there", as construed by the human mind, mediated by our unique perceptual and conceptual systems. We live in a world of complex concepts linked to our linguistic system. Our ability to conceptualise stuff is basically unlimited. But language limits the expression of thought that we have at our disposal to talk about 'the world "out there"'. Everybody knows the feeling when you can't quite put something into words - that's because your lexicon doesn't have the "right" word. Because while there's an unlimited number of concepts, there's only a limited number of linguistic symbols. Looking at natural languages from this perspective, language provides prompts for the construction of conceptualisations in our cognitive system. These prompts are richer than the minimal meanings that language provides. Basically, language doesn't encode thought in its complex entirety, but instead rudimentary instructions to the conceptual system to access or create rich and elaborate ideas. Hence, asking what language qualities would be "best" for magick is like asking which muscle is best for it, or which of the classical magickal tools is the best one. A natural language is the map your mind constructs over "reality", and is a tool like anything else. It does not have an intrinsic power in itself - the linguistic symbols have to be invested with meaning (and power) by the practicioner. Which is why "Abracadabra"-style "barbaric words" have such a long tradition in magick, across time and space. >but which written form? Writing, although usually subsumed under language, is an entirely different semiotic system. Every time you write something, you translate it from one semiotic system (natural language) to another (writing). Magicky, you can use any and all writing systems, but I recommend going with what vibes with you - not just the shapes, but the culture behind it. I like to use Sumerian cuneiform not just for its aesthetic value (etc), but because I find the concepts that are associated with the logographs (= written signs that refer to words) useful and know what they mean. If you want to use maths and go for the earliest known writing system there's physical tokens (very sorcery-ish!), and the numerous systems that were developed in early Mesopotamia. These mostly use a base 60 system, but there's also base 12, 120, 10, etc. >>2630 >to mention hebrew also went through changes as they "rediscovered it" and created yiddish or however they call it. True. Biblical Hebrew is known only from the Torah, which has largely been reconstructed from the Latin Septuagint. Modern Hebrew, in turn, is an artificial language that was created to unify the people in Israel, providing them with a Semitic touch they otherwise didn't have. >>2633 >both Japanese and Hebrew are based off Chinese writing Can't speak for Japanese, but Hebrew definitely isn't. It's based on Biblical Hebrew, which is based on Ancient Hebrew, which is based on Proto-Semitic inscriptions found along the NE border of ancient Egypt. >>2631 Thank you for that, great read. I've been interested in learning Japanese for a while, but sadly I can't find the time for it. Sumerian cuneiform works in a similar manner. >>2636 Amen to that.

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>>2637 >In human terms, I think Sanskrit is the most significant one due to how much you can trace from a lot of other languages back to it. That's because Sanskrit is an Indo-European language, and most of the languages you are familiar with are Indo-European. There are many, many other linguistic systems out there. >I do believe one single primordial language might have existed, but Sanskrit might be the best we have. Why would that be the case? >>2640 >Like the name of G-d https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash is what grants you power over reality but for that you need to be extremely into Kabbalistic traditions so G-d will grant you the power to say the name. It has extreme levels of secrets contained that you can only use if you have a level of initiation into the system. 100% agree. And it's like that with any other system, really. If you know it well, you can discover layers that aren't immediately visible on the surface. I.e., you need to be able to speak and understand the language to a certain degree before you can unlock certain occult things. But you really need to become fluent in the concepts that are encoded in the relevant language to do so. >Latin was used as a "magical language" because long ago the clergy spoke only in latin and scholarly knowledge was based around it. That's a great example. Magical languages like that have been around since the dawn of history (aka written down stuff). In ancient Mesopotamia, about 2,100 BCE the mages were fond of using certain phrases that look completely meaningless and must have sounded intense. Turns out that those were based on the name of a dog trainer who was a foreigner from Urartu - dangerous and foreign both! Those were transmitted for many centuries, and must have been effective enough. After all, in such cases it's about the mystery and prestige (to refer back to OP) of a language. Similarly, Sumerian was used as the language of magic, cult, and religion after it died out until the 1st century ACE. The texts barely make sense and it's clear that the Babylonians, Assyrians, and Greeks who used them had no idea what the words actually meant - but to them, Sumerian (both the language and the writing system) was something that connected them to a truly ancient history shadowed in myth. If people believe that something is an effective banishment in a language of power, then that'll work. Proof? The popularity of mangled Hebrew or Egyptian in occult circles for the past 150+ years. >>2797 >In my own experience, languages, both for programming and speaking, teach you to think in very different ways. This. You get a new semiotic system for encoding thought, a new set of concepts to understand and think in with each. >there are people speaking languages old enough that they would be racist against _fucking indo-europeans_… That would be a huge augment to human thinking. Which is why I always recommend learning dead non-Indo-European languages. It really does wonders for your cognitive system if you suddenly have to switch into completely different systems. >>2862 >Yeah... also "true names" are not just about pronunciation but the energies it tries to represent. Yepp. Which is why one "true name" can be different in different languages (remember, concepts and prompts available)...

Guys, you must not forget that in magic language and words are not useful because they have some intrinsic metaphysical property. They simply are one of the best interfaces for humans to encode and transmit information, and information being transferred from one thing to another is what makes magic work. You can do magic by drawing, singing, or even just straight up feeling. As long as you are transferring your desired pattern of information and impressing it onto something else, results will follow. Of course there's the secret sauce you can't make this work without, but I have already talked about that in other posts. Just don't fetishize language.

I think I should explain why I think you shouldn't fetishize language. Linguistics is fun, I get it. Conlangs for example are one of the best ways to satisfy one's thirst for artistic and intellectual creation there are, in my opinion. But precisely for this reason, fetishizing it is very dangerous for the magician, because it will suck you into a bottomless rabbit hole of armchair work and very little to show for it. Like the nei gong nerds who develop endlessly but can't manifest goth big tiddy gf to save their lives. You might think you shouldn't chase siddhis, but they certainly are useful as milestones to reassure you haven't strayed from the right path.