AH FUCK I GOT CARRIED AWAY AGAIN
>>1254563
>Sure you can do triple dodges for Evelyn, but is that actually relevant?
To perfect rotations it's the difference between being able to execute the rotation and not being able to. It's more of a Energy/Decibel management tool, and the perfect rotation is built in a way that can put those resources to use.
>In-stun is actually extremely relevant because of how much damage is stacked into those windows
It's not relevant in the sense that being able to execute a rotation someone else has figured out for you has absolutely nothing to do with being able to find this rotation yourself.
It's not like we're trying to try and repeat Desk's infinites from SF4 era. Execution is merely a prerequisite, and in case of ZZZ it's a very low bar.
What I'm getting at is that the beta players so far have not demonstrated neither skills nor intuition of players who find and execute peak rotation.
Most of those tend to come from bilibili nerds, players like Yoji or Shadow7 often start with an already existing idea but they often bring in execution-specific optimization that require really knowing what are you doing and why,
Out of people who have access to beta, Lin-0 (I think he has it) is the notable exception.
But Lin-0 himself often has to go back to agents after release, because it's unreasonable to expect an agent to be fully figured out right out of the gates.
The idea that
ANY agent will be fully figured out by release is completely silly. The agent in question having high execution floor and optimization ceiling just makes that disproportionally sillier.
When the agent is released for all these people to finally try their hand at him, experiment with him, and try optimize him - only then might you start considering we know anything about him.
And only at
that stage should the argument of
>super sekret tech
come up. Because for now, no one can play him properly, I can guarantee you that much.
You have mentioned frame data before, but the thing is
<1) Fighting games usually have frame data freely available immediately on release
Yet, not a single character starts out fully figured out. And one month later they won't be fully figured out either.
Frame data realistically only serves as a source of truth for confirming with certainty that an idea is hypothetically possible or impossible. You still have to had an idea to begin with for frame data to be of any help.
Same goes for hitboxes, albeit that is more likely to actually create an idea compared to raw frame data.
<2) We actually don't have frame data.
We literally do not have "frame data" for ZZZ.
We can
record gameplay and
roughly calculate frame data but that's not equivalent to actually having the confirmed internal data laid bare.
Calculating it yourself is a long and tedious process. And it's also rarely anywhere as relevant in ZZZ because, unlike in fighting games, frame data of moves is not absolute in ZZZ.
Fighting games usually only have universal hit-stop, while ZZZ has both universal and enemy-specific hit-stops.
The latter means that some combination of moves could behave in a way that would initially look impossible if you look at their respective "frame data" in isolation.
To give you an example I know well, see the opener in the video related.
When I'm doing the double QA after Trigger fires her Sniping finisher, I initiate another Sniping before the final QA.
The automatic finisher follow up from that Sniping locks Pompey in hitstop just long enough for S11 to be able to initiate BA4 before I have to swap Lighter in.
It also means Lighter gets into Morale Burst as soon as he finishes the shuffle EX.
If the finisher isn't there, the entire thing falls apart - it's an opener that's enabled by a specific combination of things.
Can you take a look at frame data and confirm that it works as described? Sure. Would you find it by looking at the frame data? Unlikely, because it involves
>Trigger's frame data, including local enemy hit-stop
>S11 frame data
>Lighter's frame data
>Pompey's frame data
all for a silly fucking opener I'm not even sure is optimal.
Another example I know is the entirety of Mibibi mono Ice.
I mean, disregarding the fact that it wasn't discovered in the beta, despite not a single thing about it being "secret" and disregarding the fact it's getting its rotation improved every single fucking season, it's also a thing that's literally directly linked to frame data, but in a way that doesn't really help you.
Specifically, for Soukaku on Bringer, the part (duration-wise) of the EX swing you hit Bringer with can and will constitute the difference between shattering and not shattering the ice with her rally cancel > BA combo.
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The actual explanation for it was found literal months after the mono Ice rotation was already being used every single rotation. If it works - it works. It doesn't mean that everyone knows and understands every single aspect of it. 99% just know how to pull it off and the remaining 1% still have no idea, but they know enough to at least start thinking about it.
Basically, there's just too much information to look at, that information is too tedious to get, and even if you get it, its usability is very limited.