>>755919
>Fufu's numbers are not what makes her strong, overcapping on decibels and refunding them is
No, not really.
Decibel cap increase has value and so do refunds, but unless they net you a full Ultimate, what are they enabling you to do is not to
>ulting every stun
because you generally can already do that. They allow you to play in a more optimal manner and do less weird shit.
My S11 run vs Pompey last Deadly had four stuns and four Ultimates during the stun.
And the thing about it, I'd usually end up with 4 stuns 3 Ultimates, so you'd be right that Fufu would likely allow me to fit an extra Ultimate in easier, but the price to pay for that would be to have a
much lower value buffs throughout the entirety of the fight.
So, realistically speaking, you don't really get "an entire Ultimate worth of damage" - you usually get a "better out-of-burst rotation because you don't have to spam DAs to build decibels", which is nice, but not as big. And even if you do an extra Ultimate and get extra damage - you've paid for that extra damage with interest.
Generally, against Red Pompey who Ju Fufu bullies, the S11 teams go something like this:
>S11/Lighter/Astra
>S11/Lighter/Fufu
>S11/Trigger/Lighter
>S11/Trigger/Fufu
in the order of overall power (and my personal score) decreasing.
Trigger/Lighter actually produce considerably bigger buffs together, but Fufu is just too damn good for the Red Pompey fight as she maxes out the fight mechanic, providing additional CRIT DMG% and locking Pompey down for free.
And, well, Fufu's personal damage also gets buffed by Lighter, which isn't much but it's not nothing.
>W1 Trigger outright has better buffing than this, she's 25% def shred
No, she's not.
Like, on my 39~40 sub-stat Soldier 11, Trigger buffs WITH her W-Engine ever-so-slightly outperforms Lighter without his
But that's not exactly true, because:
>direct damage from Trigger is much lower than from Lighter who only comes out during his burst, buffs himself a bunch, and generally matches the weakness
>the stun duration extension is a huge overall damage buff and most calcs (including mine) tend to forget about it
>utilizing DEF% shred to begin with requires replacing the BiS #5 drive disc option as PEN% loses a considerably amount of value, even if you have a bunch of flat PEN stacked
>BA damage from S11 is generally overestimated, when at least half of it (if not most) ends up coming from CAs and the Ultimate, and those are not anywhere as saturated as her BAs
And yes, that's against a non-stunned enemy. Against a stunned enemies her buffs are slightly worse with all the above caveats still applying.
>30% CD from Summit
That's not a part of Trigger's kit, though. Lighter can run Summit just as well, or, in fact, better than Trigger (as his EX use is easier to fit in and he'll have more EX opportunities on average).
What Trigger can bring to the table while Lighter can't is Astral Voice activation. If you're running S11/Fufu/Lighter you can't run Astral Voice, in S11/Trigger/Lighter - you can.
>Soldier is oversaturated with attack % already
You mean DMG% I assume,
Yes, she is but she's oversaturated on CRIT DMG% as well. You'd be in the 150% or something like that. All the diminishing returns that apply to DMG% apply to CRIT DMG% as well, you just get more of the latter from its sources.
>which doesn't impact Soldier that much because her basics don't do a lot of damage so getting one extra combo doesn't amount to much in general
This isn't correct for a few reasons.
First, if her BAs "don't do a lot of damage" we can then safely retire the entire idea of running the new BA set because what's the point of buffing something that doesn't "do a lot of damage" and removing buffs from something that does?
Third, the stun extension doesn't allow you to just fit in a "bigger" rotation. It reduces the requirements for fitting in a "better" rotation. i.e. you can start doing the whole sequence later to align it better and still be able to fit everything in.
Fourth, if you are running The Brimstone, Lighter's extension becomes very important as it provides you with a lot of extra time to stagger your CAs and Ultimate with BA1234 in-between, stacking up the W-Engine and providing a huge overall increase to the overall burst damage
Fifth, if you are running Astra, you literally do have a "bigger burst". And if you're running Nocturne on S11, you should
really run her with Astra.
Finally, addressing the prior point here mostly, S11's
BAs are oversaturated on DMG%. The rest of her kit only has 32.5% from her AA (during the stun) + 10% from IM + 24% from Astral or something like that. That's not nothing but that's a relatively low saturation level across the field.
Trigger is very cool in how versatile she is, and her buffs are goddamn crazy for her versatility, but she isn't Lighter level for S11.
>Then you have to consider if using Orphie + W1 Trigger is better than Lighter because you get 50% def shred, vs Lighter who buffs both Soldier and Orphie. This game is not about just numbers.
Well yes, but I've run the numbers, and Lighter's buff is a
much bigger number for both S11
and Orphie.
[Expand Post]
Like, 50% DEF shred is very nice, but you should understand that while DEF shred and PEN are both incredibly powerful the reason for that is their multiplicative nature, not their inherent value.
100% PEN is actually just a 120% multiplicative damage increase against a level 70 boss - it caps out relatively low.
Slapping even a fraction of it on top of your already roided out agent is very powerful, but if you have to give up some huge-ass buffs just to access it, it's far less value.
And the thing about Trigger as well is that the reason she's so strong is because of how multiplicative she is.
But she needs to multiply something for that to create actual value.
The 55% baseline damage multiplier is great even if it's during the stun and you can't run PEN% with it, but agents like Lighter and Astra provide more than 55%.
Lighter + Astra specifically is a bit of a broken combo and are a part of the reason why Eve is so goddamn strong, but when you throw two other supports together, you rarely get this much of a direct synergy. Trigger gets this synergy with pretty much everyone except for Rina.
But if you remove your Lighter/Astra/Yuzuha/Soukaku/etc. you are getting rid of that first huge multiplier, so the 55% you get from Trigger stop being particularly impressive.
>This game is not about just numbers. You show this yourself by talking about rotations
Well yes and no.
The game is not just numbers but that doesn't change the fact one can count all the damage a squad would do.
The entire statement is just an excuse for not counting enough numbers.
Like, rotations are also numbers.
>so I have no idea why you're writing anything off
I'm not writing off anything yet, though.
I'm commenting on the current state of affairs because Hoyo is clearly reading my posts with that goddamn Cinema they gave Orphie.
>Also, I never said anything about Lighter being "non-viable"
You didn't. I did.
I want them to have Fire teams where Lighter is just not good.
He shouldn't be the default go-to for every single fire team and currently he is.
>I also never said anything about him not having a stun extension
I never tried to imply you did.
I just said that in the context of him completely outmatching her buffs before I even got to the stun extension part. It's just that much of a raw difference.