I recently watched all of 00 plus the movie. What do most people think about this? I thought it was strangely similar to Wing with the focus on a small group of elite Gundam pilots and the strangely juvenile way in which war is treated. Its not as bad as Wing but still grossly simplified. The most puzzling aspect is how the series tries to turn Setsuna into the symbol and embodiment of dialogue and understanding. The character that autistically screams about Gundams and believes in using force to end wars and telling others not to touch him and barely being able to converse even with people he likes. Marina, the only character that could have organically mended Setsuna's character flaws then gets sidelined for most of the series and by the beginning of the movie the series still acts like Setsuna learned something about the value of discussion and dialogue when he didnt do anything of the sort. The movie sucked too. Think CCA but theres aliens and it sucks and the action is a vomit of spastic movement and zipping around.

>>3913 Ive only watched 0079 movies, Seed and this. Love the space elevators. Manufacturing stuff in Jupiter's orbit is cool too. Really liked Saji and Louise's story in season 2 over whatever Celestial Being is up to, pretty much watched just for them. No idea whats the difference between Innovades and Innovators, besides the color of their Gundam exhaust or why Liu Mei suddenly switched sides. I still dont understand the Innovades' motivations. They were pretty forgettable honestly. Setsuna is Gundam. I dont expect a personality from my toaster, I dont expect much from him. Replacing Dynames' pilot with his twin brother felt like such a cop out undercutting the ending of season 1. Overall, feels like a worse version of Code Geass. But I did like how it showed that an organization like A-Laws could arise when an extrajudicial policing force is given too much power though. Other gundam series likes to have their ace pilot elite squad thing go unchecked but not causing as much problems.

>>3935 >Overall, feels like a worse version of Code Geass. STOPPED READING THERE

>>3913 How was it like CCA? Just felt like someone dropped the Vajra plotline from Macross Frontier into Gundam 00 for no reason, to me.

I still wonder how they changed his voice in the ballroom episode.

>>4379 The main theme of the movie is overcoming war through dialogue and mutual understanding. The movie revolves around fighting a approaching catastrophe threatening the entire planet and the entire climax of the 00 movie is a transcendent act of mutual understanding calling forth a miracle that saves earth. Except in CCA this theme is effectively communicated through character conflict while in 00 they turn it into a shitty alien movie that undermines the theme in several ways.

>>4963 So you wanted the >dialogues that are to come foreshadowing to go to waste?

Season 1 is fine. Not the best, but definitely has some interesting plots... that it never quite gets around to fully resolving. Season 2 just throws out everything that made season 1 work >most of those dangling plots are ignored or hastily and unsatisfactorily wrapped up >characters being cogs who don't know the full plan wondering if their organization's goals are really obtainable through the methods they use have been replaced by everyone opposing the not-Titans >all design simplified because HD animation is hard (when HD animation is the main thing 00 had going for it) >interesting characters are sidelined >character who committed mass murder of civilians because they were too happy for her tastes is treated as anything other than a rabid attack dog >season 1's final battle [spoiler]didn't kill anyone outside of Celestial Being. It barely mattered![spoiler] >being in space is treated so casually compared to season 1

>>4967 This is the worst possible payoff that could have come of this. The aliens should have been more humanoid so that the invasion plot would work better as an analogue to real war and diplomacy between humans. Instead the entire climax just revolves around getting Setsuna to use the quantal burst thing so they can even communicate with these things in the first place, and right after he does so for the first time the conflict is resolved instantly and peace is established. You'd think diplomacy and achieving mutual understanding would be a little more difficult and complicated than talking once and making peace. "Dialogues" my ass, it was one. In CCA the Psychoframe miracle doesnt represent the solving of war and the instant establishment of peace. It only represents the hope for peace and the latent potential for mutual understanding that humanity has, it symbolizes a path to redemption but isnt the solution itself. Thats why it was triggered by Char and Amuro, it sprung forth from two people that hate and respect and misunderstand each other. CCA is more nuanced in that way, and thus more true to what real dialogue, diplomacy and war is like. Not fucking aliens.

>>5113 I can't fathom why you'd want each Gundam show to copy the predecessors (in this case you want 00 to be a homage to CCA), instead of venturing into new things. I never had any problem with the aliens and the pivoting away from human conflict into /x/ territory that 00 took. Just how much more endless war did 00 need? A continuous, grimderp drudgery of factions always battling factions, long-term peace never to be achieved, like in UC? >"Dialogues" my ass, it was one. The first one that came and it was already the hard mode level for humans despite the 'relative ease' of resolution (just being able to communicate).

>solar wars ovas never ;_;

>>5113 >The aliens should have been more humanoid No. That would just ruin them being aliens. Gundam's shtick is the non-mech stuff goes toward harder sci-fi

>>5120 If 00 wanted to explore new thematic territories then it shouldnt have chosen the anti-war themes that almost every Tomino Gundam has examined until now. If it wants to break away and do something original then it has to do so in a way that doesnt undermine the previous anti-war themes it was about until then, and pivoting to an alien invasion plot that is solved solely with innovator bullshit is a surefire way of making a grossly simplified portrayal of war and diplomacy. I think its generally bad when stories make light of war because its tasteless and speaks to a lack of insight on the authors part. The aliens werent even malicious or hostile, they were trying to communicate in their own way and didnt know it was killing humans, and thinking that all war and conflicts spring forth from such benign misunderstandings instead of the actual human desire to dominate, subjugate and to punish makes 00 seem insanely naive.

>>5244 >If it wants to break away and do something original then it has to do so in a way that doesnt undermine the previous anti-war themes It never did? The TV series established that human evolution is necessary to accomplish UNDERSTANDING and peace and the film is a continuation of that. >and pivoting to an alien invasion plot that is solved solely with innovator bullshit is a surefire way of making a grossly simplified portrayal of war and diplomacy 00 was never about diplomacy, what are you about? Celestial Being never negotiated - they were an organisation following a total doctrine. The world government forming (and going full authoritarian right from the start) wasn't about diplomacy in the slightest, since it was all Aeolia's KEIKAKUDOORI and brought about by Ribbons pulling the strings from behind the scene. I understand you hate Gundam and its reliance on 'Newtype bullshit', but why even single out 00 when most entries in the franchise are guilty of this? >If 00 wanted to explore new thematic territories then it shouldnt have chosen the anti-war themes that almost every Tomino Gundam has examined until now. >The aliens werent even malicious or hostile, they were trying to communicate in their own way and didnt know it was killing humans, and thinking that all war and conflicts spring forth from such benign misunderstandings instead of the actual human desire to dominate, subjugate and to punish makes 00 seem insanely naive. ??? And? The film should have explored the exact same grounds the TV series had? Why? Didn't we get enough of it in the show? Had they been sentient, hostile aliens, you would have complained about the writers just recycling the same plot 'but with aliens'. According to you, Gundam shows are not allowed to experiment or expand the scope - everything must neatly follow the initial set-up. Have we watched the same show?

>>5267 >It never did? The TV series established that human evolution is necessary to accomplish UNDERSTANDING and peace and the film is a continuation of that. You travel pretty far away from the theme of understanding when the other party isnt even human. >00 was never about diplomacy Diplomacy was a secondary theme in the TV series, as you can tell from one of the major characters related to Setsuna being a political figurehead. It was secondary because the main characters were busy being pro-terrorist and all the politicians were just a way of illustrating that Celestial Beings terrorism was better than politics but thats beside the point. You cant say 00 said nothing about internal politics and international diplomacy when several plot threads revolve around the relationship between its different nations and alliances. The movie then shifts diplomacy into its major theme. The 00 movie pretends to be about diplomacy, the final battle revolves around just opening up a channel of communication with the aliens. The entire conflict and its resolution is very transparently supposed to serve as an analogue for real world diplomacy and political negotiation between states, even if grossly simplified. >I understand you hate Gundam and its reliance on 'Newtype bullshit', but why even single out 00 when most entries in the franchise are guilty of this? No, Newtypes in Tomino Gundam are fine. Innovators are what people who hate "Newtype bullshit" think Newtypes are. I have already explained how the resolution of the 00 movie (caused by Setsunas innovator powers) and the Psychoframe miracle are thematically different things (which CCA does way better) in >>5113 >The film should have explored the exact same grounds the TV series had? No, but in trying to introduce aliens into its plot in undermines the themes it was about before by making light of war and the difficulties of diplomacy and negotiating peace between nations. It didnt need to retread the TV series but also shouldnt ruin the foundation it was built on in the first place (not that I thought the 00 TV series was that good to begin with). >According to you, Gundam shows are not allowed to experiment or expand the scope - everything must neatly follow the initial set-up. I did not assert this. My point is that war and peace are important subjects that deserve to be treated with care and attention within fiction, and making light of these themes is bad. This is what 00 does when in introduces the alien plot. It could have done this well, but it didnt. I didnt assert that it shouldnt have tried in the first place but it certainly didnt try hard enough because the result is garbage that makes it seem as though the writers have a childish view of war and peace.