Obligatory first post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCu43dnxIVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMvnjUphKYo&ab_channel=livak%C4%B1z%C4%B1m Never forget!

Ruby is so lucky

Reminder

>>141 Peak

>>141 I keep contemplating an story where he's kicked over into Eorzea for a time before the RWBY story begins.

>>141 Alright, do you think Jaune would prefer being the big spoon or the little spoon?

>>1299 Little spoon, but he has no issues being the big spoon if requested

>>1299 Big Spoon; he's a cuddler.

>>141 BUILT for TFP

>>141 Who's his real heroine?

Jaunefag shitters, fuck you assholes jajaja

>>1931 Based

What are your thoughts on future powerups for Jaune?

>>2083 Anything is fine as long as this is included into his arsenal (even if they put drawbacks on it)

A lot of strange people actually think that Jaune needs a gun for some reason. Guys this is anime. We have fucking Sword Beams. We don't need that shit. lol. Inuyasha's Wind Scar, Ichigo's Getsuga, Saber's Excaliblast all sword users in anime get them at some point.

Jaune ability has the potential to be disgustingly powerful. He was basically given the Paladin starter pack. Which are experts at healing, tanking AND doing damage. They're the All rounders who can do basically everything. It's just gonna take him a while to get there. Theres also an anime called "The Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic" that goes out of it's way to show off just how terrifying a healer can be in combat. Healing is just one aspect of Jaune's powers but it's arguably the most fearsome. I don't know about you guys but when I'm playing a video game usually the MOST terrifying moments are when I've spent hours damaging a boss and wearing them down to nothing only for them to INSTANTLY heal themselves back to full health like it's nothing. Most terrifying shit in the world imo. lol. The ability to heal is what makes Unohana from Bleach a monster. Crazy bitch mastered healing just to make sure she can enjoy fights longer. This would be blasphemy to say out loud anywhere else but I genuinely believe that Jaune with mastering of this ability can take down a maiden.

>>2157 It helps that wind blades are a thing in RWBY, plus from Jaune's training montage in V4, he was able to swing hard enough to cause shockwaves too. >>2160 >This would be blasphemy to say out loud anywhere else but I genuinely believe that Jaune with mastering of this ability can take down a maiden. He'll definitely be able to survive most Maiden attacks if he fully mastered his semblance, though I'm not sure if he can beat one solo since he is primarily melee-focused and most Maidens can fly.

>>2163 True. I happen to have footage of that. It's a decent feat. >He'll definitely be able to survive most Maiden attacks if he fully mastered his semblance, though I'm not sure if he can beat one solo since he is primarily melee-focused and most Maidens can fly. Thats why I brought up the healing/recovery ability. He wouldn't need to overpower them or outfight them. He'd just outlast them.

>>2163 >He'll definitely be able to survive most Maiden attacks if he fully mastered his semblance Didn't he take Salem's magical blast and get struck by Cordovin's Mecha and still have his aura up?

>>2174 The real question is if Jaune with a full mastery of his semblance can survive Cinder's big beam blasts when even Ozpin couldn't. >>2179 Salem broke his aura with one shot I believe.

>>2180 >Ozpin couldn't. It cuts away so that's not 100% clear if it was one blast or just Cinder wearing him down and killing him, since that green ball is Ozpin's magic and Oscar uses the same technique to survive falling from Atlas to Mantle when Ironwood shoots him, and I'm pretty sure that same magic shield is what protects him from getting vaporized by the Cane's own explosive power. >Salem broke his aura with one shot I believe. Oh. I could have sworn it didn't break, but I guess I was wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1azADlC4Es

>>2180 Well Jaune's semblance is amplification. If he actually amplified his defenses it might be a different story. I'd say it's more than likely he'd surpass Oz's defenses if he mastered it. Jaune still hasn't learned how to extend his aura yet either.

>>2181 Thats right I never thought about that. How esle could Oscar have survived that explosion. Holy fuck his shield actually tanked that. Thats crazy. lmao.

The writers are never gonna let Jaune get a powerup since apparently the whole point of his character is to be a loser who needs to realize that he will never be a hero and give up on his dreams by committing to being an NPC. He's essentially supposed to be an example of how white males and the patriarchy in general need to be neutered put in their place so that women can girl boss and bring the world into true female utopia. Just look Fred in the Velma show, or Kyle from gay She-Ra. The blonde white male character only exists to get their dressing down because their whole purpose is to be a punching bag. If they don't trans him by the end or kill off Nora(because of their kill all red-heads agenda) and make him gay for Ren I'd genuinely be shocked. He'd be a great character in any other story though. One that might actually end up a hero. But theres genuinely nothing to look forward to in a story like this. Especially one written by people like this.

>>2257 >reddit spacing >complaining about how Jaune is destined to be le loser because he isn't being a gary stu. >If they don't trans him by the end or kill off Nora(because of their kill all red-heads agenda) and make him gay for Ren I'd genuinely be shocked. If they were going to kill off Nora they'd have done it already. Stop being a schizo. >apparently the whole point of his character is to be a loser who needs to realize that he will never be a hero and give up on his dreams by committing to being an NPC. <Learning that heroism isn't just being a 2-dimensional trope is somehow the same as him giving up on this dreams Where did you even get this idea? Nowhere is Jaune giving up on his dreams or not fighting, or being an NPC, what the fuck are you even on about?

>>2261 I think he's basing his entire rant on this >Just look Fred in the Velma show, or Kyle from gay She-Ra. The blonde white male character only exists to get their dressing down because their whole purpose is to be a punching bag. Ignoring that while Jaune did get shafted by the plot at times, he didn't get humiliated as much as those other characters, and the few times the writers seemingly did, his character ironically benefited greatly from it.

>>2261 Theres a large number of Jaune fans who have grown incredibly nihilistic about his role in the story. "He'll never do anything, he wont matter, he only exists to suffer." etc. It's a combination of how RWBY has handled the character and cultural trends writing male characters as depressed or a clown or both.

What do you guys think Jaune is doing at the end of the series?

>>2447 >What do you guys think Jaune is doing at the end of the series? Weiss

>>2447 Aside from marrying Cinder, he'd probably commit his full time and energy into being a father. I think deep down Jaune wants that more than he wants to be a Huntsman.

What are some themes that are important to Jaune's character?

If, hypothetically, Jaune meets his younger self, would he try to dissuade him from being a Huntsman or will he try to encourage him?

>>2485 >What are some themes that are important to Jaune's character? Heroism, Love, and Kindness imo.

>>2505 He has probably has some new negative views on being Huntsman and what that means. But he would also acknowledge that some things NEED to happen even if they're terrible. Going to beacon, meeting his friends, falling into the Ever After etc. So I think he would encourage him reluctantly, but also inform him of the harsh reality waiting for him. It would also be smart to tell him to prepare and start training from right now.

>>2485 I'd say the central theme for him revolves around what it means to be a hero.

>>2485 Perseverance

Jaune bros I would like to recommend a fic called Tournament Arc. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13019685/1/Tournament-Arc Jaune-centric and it has REALLY good fights. The writer actually does cool things with Jaune's semblance that aren't just healing!

>>2607 Kys

>>2609 Don't be a twat.

Do you guys think Jaune should go home? Like I mean just go back to his family and ignore the whole Salem nonsense? The show seems to be pushing the message that he isn't going to be a Hero and it doesn't really seem like there is anything for him to do. All of his existing skills are either not needed or useless. The only relevant thing they could have him do is kill Cinder but there is no way they let him do that because it would make him look too cool. So why not just go home? Is there a justifiable reason he shouldnt just ditch this nonsense and go back to his family?

I don't say this out of hate this to me just sounds like the most respectable way to have him exit the story without the writers continuing to humiliate him or kill him off in some stupid way.

>>2622 The show isn't pushing that message at all. It's saying he shouldn't expect success but he should try to do the right thing every time without letting his dreams of being a hero or his emotions get the best of him. Weiss actually says this to him directly, even, which makes him start crying. I think Jaune should check to see if his family is safe if he can (assuming they aren't in Vacuo already) but no he should keep together with his team as soon as he gets back to them. >kill him off in some stupid way I hope that's not the path they choose but Jaune is no coward at this point and there is no way he will abandon the mission.

>>2625 >I hope that's not the path they choose but Jaune is no coward at this point and there is no way he will abandon the mission. It has nothing to do with being a coward. It's just that from every logical point of view there is no reason for him to be here. There no functional purpose he serves in the story that make him necessary for the plot. He could go home and literally nothing would change. So why shouldn't he? Why shouldn't the writers send him home?

>>2739 Two words for you; Aura Amp.

>>2742 No one needs Aura Amp tbh. Jaune didn't use it once during the Ever After and everybody survived just fine.

>>2743 Jaune not using Aura Amp in the Ever After resulted in him losing to Weiss's Team Kill. Also V9 was survived through plot bullshit. Ruby literally an-heroed, and only plot kept her from being ascended as something else with no memories. His Aura Amp also helped Ren hide huge numbers of people for prolonged periods of time, protected Nora from getting squashed by Cordovin and so on. It's not a flashy ability but it not being constantly used =/= useless. For the finale I think it'll be even more important, possibly amping up Ruby's Silver Eyes.

>>2739 >It's just that from every logical point of view there is no reason for him to be here. There no functional purpose he serves in the story that make him necessary for the plot. They need every single able warrior they can to fight Salem. Salem has overwhelming odds. There is absolutely no reason for Jaune to be a coward here.

>>2739 The world is ending and you think it makes sense for him to just chill out and go home. He’s already made a difference numerous times, without Jaune in the timeline… well it’s a complicated question now that I’m thinking about it. They might actually kill Penny earlier instead of letting her grab the relic for Ironwood. Arguably Nora and Weiss could be dead but things could have gone differently so it’s hard to say. Regardless peacing out of the fight makes no sense while Salem is trying to end the world. Besides he needs to keep fighting so he can find a girlfriend, with all the eligible single huntresses out there mama Arc wouldn’t let him rest at home for long.

>>2756 I think he means if you plucked Jaune out of the story right now what would change? We don't know if Jaune is supposed to date anybody though. For all we know he stays a bachelor for the rest of his life. It would suck but CRWBY might do it.

>>2761 What like if Jaune just didn't appear in V10 and onwards? I assume the story would just go on like usual. In that sense I guess it's hard to see how he would be needed. >>2744 I gather it's less about how many times he used it and whether the ability is actually even necessary. I don't think his healing is even needed most of the time. Boosting Ren is a good point though but they could also just make do without it.

>>2622 Yeah I'm one of those thats thinks Jaune should go home. It's the only way he'll be safe from the writers. >>2758 Why shouldn't he? Whats wrong with being selfish? He's not a Hero(that was the point of V9) and it's not his job to save the world.

>>2763 >Why shouldn't he? Because it's out of character for Jaune to do that. >Whats wrong with being selfish? Nothing is wrong with being selfish. It's just not something Jaune would do this far into the plot. >He's not a Hero(that was the point of V9) and it's not his job to save the world. It's not, but it is his friend's job and he will never leave them to do it by themselves. This is the same man who stuck around in a fairy tale world for years purely out of loyalty for his friends. No way he will just leave it all behind.

>>2761 >>2762 >>2763 Guys, they're not just gonna drop his entire story line with Cinder. He's the only one who can properly resolve that subplot.

>>2763 >It's the only way he'll be safe from the writers. Considering their past attempts at writing Jaune (every attempt at undermining and humiliate him keeps backfiring and improved his character without fail), I'm not too worried unless they turn him into a broken cuck or something.

>>2763 >He's not a Hero(that was the point of V9) No. That's never been the point. The point is that heroism isn't some simplistic story-book caricature, because reality is different and more complicated than fairy tales. >Whats wrong with being selfish? 1-800-C'mon-Now >>2761 >if you plucked Jaune out of the story right now what would change? You could say that for almost the entire main cast barring Ruby, including WBY. He's the Deuteragonist, a contrast to Ruby's character. >it's less about how many times he used it and whether the ability is actually even necessary. Given that it was being foreshadowed since fucking V2 and has been key in saving Weiss' life (healing), preventing Watts from self-destructing Penny, Boosted Ren numerous times (to the point that his ability let them sneak through Salem's whale almost entirely undetected) and so on. His ability is shown to literally let Penny's soul override her computer programming, boost people's abilities far beyond normal capability, often at key points in the story. Ren failed to hide everyone when they reached Vacuo because he didn't have Jaune to boost him, resulting in the Grimm attacking. They can't make do without it, not at this final stage of the war.

>>2755 Jaune isn't a warrior and they just had an entire plot line about how military might is useless against Salem. >>2764 >This is the same man who stuck around in a fairy tale world for years purely out of loyalty for his friends. No way he will just leave it all behind. He would if it's meant to be a sign of his growth from the Ever After. The Ever After showed us that Jaune's desire to be a hero are purely selfish and about feeding his ego. He even says himself that he only wanted the rush of being a Hero. Jaune was always selfish. And by doing all of that pretending to be a Hero Jaune actually got in everybody's way. Thats what the stuff with the paper pleasers showed his. He thought he was helping but all he was doing was getting in the way. He needed to learn that people don't actually need his help. With the lessons he's learned from the Ever After I think he would come to conclusion that he's not needed and needs to stand aside so the real Heroes can shine.

>>2770 >Jaune isn't a warrior What? Please explain your reasoning why you think he isn't despite Jaune fitting the definition of a warrior. >He needed to learn that people don't actually need his help In what way does Remnant not need help right now, let alone his help? >With the lessons he's learned from the Ever After I think he would come to conclusion that he's not needed and needs to stand aside so the real Heroes can shine. >he's not needed and needs to stand aside so the real Heroes can shine. >the real Heroes can shine. If I didn't know any better, I would think this is a very elaborate shitpost.

>>2771 >What? Please explain your reasoning why you think he isn't despite Jaune fitting the definition of a warrior. The show mainly tries to portray him as the weak inexperienced one who doesn't have any combat prowess. >In what way does Remnant not need help right now, let alone his help? I didnt say remnant didn't need help. Just not HIS help. >If I didn't know any better, I would think this is a very elaborate shitpost. I'm not trying to make a joke I'm just going with the way the show portrays him. There was even a scene where NeoCat punches Jaune to take him out of the fight so that Team RWBY can get this badass moment. It's like they were saying "sit your ass down loser this is a job for tough women!" It was cringe af. but it also shows you how the writers thing about Jaune as a character. I would rather not sit through another volume of this or fans saying that Jaune being in the background silently healing is "Jaune at his best". I would rather just have him realize none of this BS is his problem.

>>2770 >Jaune isn't a warrior and they just had an entire plot line about how military might is useless against Salem. Against Salem, because Salem is undying. Their might and weapons and technology can't undo the magic that binds her to this earth. Oz literally vaporized her (apparently more than once) back when their kingdom fell and she just comes back from literal nothingness after a while. We see it again with Monstro's destruction. Salem's freedom from her immortality and darkness is literally stated by the gods when they cursed her, obviously their curse and method is stupid and arrogant, but the point remains; humanity will not win through literal strength of power, but through unity, when humanity's attitude to one another is no longer 'Homo Homini Lupus Est'. None of this precludes Jaune not being a warrior or not helping against Salem, not winning the war through power, doesn't mean battles aren't sometimes won with it, or that they are unnecessary. Besides Jaune's Semblance very much applies to this narrative. Healing, or more accurately, helping one heal one's-self and enhance them, be the firm hand that keeps them from falling in the face of adversity. The men, women and children that toiled in Allied factories during WW2 were no less heroes for their effort than those that fought and died, because without their effort, those that fight would not be able to for long. No man is an island, no soldier is an army.

>>2772 >I would rather not sit through another volume of this or fans saying that Jaune being in the background silently healing is "Jaune at his best". That's not what anyone is saying, nor what the show is saying. Are you mad? >I would rather just have him realize none of this BS is his problem. To misquote a poem; to sin by inaction, when we should act, makes cowards out of men. Not doing anything when he's knee deep in the finale to a millenia-old conflict is out of character and foolish. This is what he signed up for, and is the right thing to do. >There was even a scene where NeoCat punches Jaune to take him out of the fight Rusted Jaune is clearly jaded and not at his best, from his sword, to his literal RUSTed armor to his complete lack of semblance use, to his commitment to being a story-book hero and broken obsession with not failing again is a reflection of his trauma. NeoCat is handily beating everyone, not just Jaune. Jaune is also the one who defeats the Cat with the tree's smoke; brains over brawn. >It's like they were saying "sit your ass down loser this is a job for tough women!" No, not really, I get why you think that, but Team RWBY are the main characters. Jaune gets his cool moments, but he's also flawed, he's a reflection of Ruby in a sense; A talentless guy working hard to improve and failing, while Ruby is a prodigy that also fails for different reasons and both are leaders who feel the world is on their shoulders and who want to be heroes for the sake of being heroes, and the initial mentality grows and changes as they gain experience. It also reflects Oz who falls but eventually gets back up again. >The show mainly tries to portray him as the weak inexperienced one who doesn't have any combat prowess. Not for a long while. Him being beaten in fights isn't because of weak inexperience, that's literally the opposite of what the message in V9 is; sometimes there's nothing you can do. Ruby failed too, she loses fights too, as does Weiss, as do Cinder and so on. TL;DR: The show's themes means Jaune is important, we even get this in V5/6 where Jaune's self-deprecation is disproven and/or scolded because of two main themes: "There is no victory in strength - a smaller, more honest soul will lead to victory" and the idea to Never Give Up - to "Keep Moving Forward."

Jaune would have been a better protagonist. Let me explain. He starts out hestitant like Ruby, but unlike her, he doesn't have the skills to back him up. Compared to him, Ruby is already a seasoned warrior who could take on a dozen of bad guys in the first episode. I'm mentioning this because of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey. In a sense, Ruby never follows his rules for a story. The entirety of team RWBY is already capable at fighting at high levels and have solidified motivations for each and every one of them. On the other hand, Jaune is inexperienced and incapable, starting from zero, like other characters from popular fiction like Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter. All of these characters grew up not knowing anything about their universe like Jaune, who doesn't even know about aura. Ruby and the rest of her team all already know about this, meaning their knowledge of the world doesn't help the audience understand what the setting is about. On top of that, there is limited potential of growth. I mention this because in storytelling, the growth (or deliberate stagnation) of a character is what makes a story in and of itself. Having Jaune be the blank slate he is helps with the story in that sense. Jaune is clueless, and RWBY is capable and ready to fight high level enemies. Contrast that to Jaune who only enrolled because he wanted to follow up his forefathers' legacy. Taken as it is, his call to adventure begins here. In Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, Pyrrha would be the wise person who calls him to adventure and motivates him to become a hero himself truly. She teaches him about semblances and aura, and helps him to become a true fighter. Even her death fits into Campbell's list of rules. She dies as his mentor, the same way Obi Wan Kenobi dies against Darth Vader. All of this works as motivation to be a hero. We see a bit of this in the show, but it's not fleshed out entirely. Of course Ruby's mother is also dead and serves as a catalyst for Ruby to be a hero too, but we never see Summer interact with Ruby, let alone spur her on to be a hero. From there on, Jaune would progress as a hero, rallying people like team RWBY and JNR behind him to face the big bad. Despite his nescience when it comes to Grimm and Salem, he actually pushes through and achieves heroic feats. This is important because, again, team RWBY and the rest of JNPR are already fighters. It is Jaune alone who has to learn and find his place in the world. In fact, you could have an interesting dynamic here with Emerald, who with the redeeming qualities Jaune has can be rehabilitated to be a good guy. In the world of Campbell, Jaune is the hero who is dragged into a world ending conflict in which he could potentially perform a "chosen one" type of hero like Frodo was in LOTR. The narrative tries this with Ruby, but simply fails because Ruby is already a high tier fighter. Imagine if Harry Potter entered his wizarding world already knowing most of the high tier spells. That's what Ruby is. She would function better as a deuteragonist to Jaune, an invaluable ally who never leaves his side and helps him develop. At the moment, Jaune is in an awkward position. After his time in the ever after, he's become a very skilled figher, but the question is: who is there for him to fight? Salem is obviously reserved for Ruby and her team, so what is left for Jaune? The only way I can see for him to gain a victory worth of a hero is to kill Cinder.

>>2857 This is correct. Jaune actually goes through growth while Ruby's only feat of development is learning she was perfect all along. If RWBY were a straight forward Hero story I would definitely agree with killing Cinder. Unfortunately it'd probably be more accurate to say RWBY is a criticism of typical male Hero stories. This is a female empowerment narrative. So I dont think Jaune using combat to defeat some big evil villain is in the cards for him. As much as I wish there was.

>>2867 >Ruby's only feat of development is learning she was perfect all along. That is the most hilarious way to put it, and sadly it is true. There has never been a moment where Ruby was shown to be wrong, which is (shock and awe goes here) bad writing on MKEK's part. Even when dealing with Weiss in Vol. 1, she was on the reasonable side. The biggest development she indeed had was in Vol. 9 where she realises the responsibility of saving the world might not be so easy as it seems, and like you said, the what we understand to be the ultimate god of this universe was like "Nah you're actually pretty good". >Unfortunately it'd probably be more accurate to say RWBY is a criticism of typical male Hero stories This is gonna go into more sophisticated literary analysis of RWBY (not sucking my own cock here), but I both agree and disagree with this. For RWBY to truly be a subversion of the male heroic narrative, we would need to see a female succeed where the hero fails, but not in a traditional sense. The female character would have to follow markedly different steps than presented in Campbell's hero narrative. Of course, we have this dynamic with Jaune and Ruby in the beginning, so that's a superficial reading of the story. However, to truly change the dynamic of a male/female hero story, we need to dig deeper. In the traditional male story, the male hero becomes powerful enough to fight the bad guy. This in itself is centered in violence, and at no point in RWBY's story is a conflict resovled between good and bad without violence except, if we can count it, Emerald defecting to the good guys. The defining traits of a huntsman in RWBY is how powerful they are in a fight. In a female centric narrative, violence wouldn't be the answer. Instead, the heroine's power comes from empathy and community. We do see this in Ruby herself, and Vol. 9 it even challenges her stance on this, so in that sense it could be a subversion. What does stand out as a female oriented story is that Ruby is not the chosen one. As the lyrics of the opening imply, she is nothing but a simple soul. In male centric hero stories (Harry Potter, Star Wars, LOTR) the male is a chosen one type of being. Ruby is kinda like this with her silver eyes, but never the same as in the media I previously mentioned. In this case, MKEK failed a bit by giving her said silver eyes, but we know she's not the only one who has them. Either way, she's not necessarily the one fated to defeat Salem. I could see Yang defeat Salem just the same, as well as every other female that features prominently in the cast. To credit this idea, though, is that Pyrrha faced an enemy in pure battle and lost, showing that fighting is not always the way to go. Where RWBY shines as a female centric hero story is that healing and connection are forms of resistance. From the start, friendship is a central theme of RWBY. However, to say that this is explicitly a theme that MKEK wanted to inject, or if it's a remnant of their anime homework, in which the power of friendship usually prevails, is to be seen. Personally I don't see their writing as anything more than copying anime, where female protagonists are dime a dozen, without necessarily having historically female traits be the defining factor in the story. The interesting thing about the female hero narrative, as seen in the Weaving of Nara, is that the protagonist girl might not even be able to defeat the big bad, but instead just provide temporary peace for the people in the story. If it turns out that Ruby can't defeat Salem and instead just, let's say, seal her away, that would stick closer to the female hero narrative. This all being conjecture of course. I 100% believe that Ruby will defeat Salem, though, if we really want to see it as a female hero's narrative, it would be through a reconcilliation with Ozma where Salem doesn't die but just stops being evil. This all leaves Jaune in an awkward position. He has all the qualities of a male hero, but he's stuck in a series where a female takes (mostly) all of the male heroic qualities. Jaune, in his bumbling failure of a hero he wants to be state, was always an anchor point for the audience, but because the rest of the cast has the same goal as him (defeating Salem) he never had a particular chance to shine. I don't think there is an avenue for him to be a traditional hero at all. This isn't bad in and of itself, but I can't see anything other than a knightfall scenario for him to have a meaningful ending.

>>2912 >That is the most hilarious way to put it, and sadly it is true. It's the unfortunate reality of a lot of modern female writing in western media. >Discussion on the flaws of RWBY I agreed on most of this. One thing I'd add is that RWBY kinda trips over it's own feet with this. It wants to be female-centric and be a female empowerment narrative but it gave all the females the typical masculine traits and gave all the key feminine traits needed to solve the narrative to the men(specifically Jaune & Ren). Ren's semblance being empathy and Jaune's semblance being compassion. Basically equipping the men with the tools to solve the plot. >I 100% believe that Ruby will defeat Salem, though, if we really want to see it as a female hero's narrative, it would be through a reconciliation with Ozma where Salem doesn't die but just stops being evil. Well yeah thats 100% what RWBY is building up to. Thats why the idea of killing her was taken off the table by making her immortal. It makes violence irrelevant. So the only remaining option is to change her heart & her mind. Which is exactly what the God of Light told them to do in the first place. Salem learns her lesson then the curse is broken. >I don't think there is an avenue for him to be a traditional hero at all. This isn't bad in and of itself, but I can't see anything other than a knightfall scenario for him to have a meaningful ending. I mean I wasn't gonna say it, but yeah thats exactly the scenario I think Jaune is going to get. I find it funny that any examination of the plot and the themes eventually leads people to this conclusion.

Gonna share this here, I paid someone to cover my AI Jaune-centric song. https://files.catbox.moe/qh5zt3.mp3

>>2935 That's the good shit

>>2924 > a female empowerment narrative but it gave all the females the typical masculine traits and gave all the key feminine traits needed to solve the narrative to the men(specifically Jaune & Ren). Ren's semblance being empathy and Jaune's semblance being compassion. Basically equipping the men with the tools to solve the plot. I'm glad you brought this up because you're right. It's too bad too, because, for example, Yang definitely had motherly qualities for Ruby, but they never expand on that end it just fizzles out. >it gave all the females the typical masculine traits and gave all the key feminine traits It's funny because this even translates to Jaune and Ren's love interests. Both Pyrrha and Nora were the ones to take the initiative in their respective relationships. >>2924 >any examination of the plot and the themes eventually leads people to this conclusion. Now we can only hope MKEK see this too. >>2935 Very impressive. Did you write the lyrics?

>>2971 Eyep.

>>2935 I really love the lyrics to the song. It fits RK Jaune so damn well.

>>2935 I like it a lot. It's really fitting for RK Jaune.

>>2912 >I can't see anything other than a knightfall scenario for him to have a meaningful ending. >Knightfall >Meaningful Pick one.

>>3014 U mad?

>>2935 Cool

>>3014 >redemption and forgiveness aren't meaningful fauner what are you smoking

>>2912 I disagree. The story is about Jaune abandoning his original selfish notions of just being THE hero of the story to learn to rely on others and grow with others. You can even see how badly the isolation in V9 left him - he didn't come out of it uber powerful like you would expected a Naruto or a Luffy to have, but rather just more competent, serious and even more emotionally broken somehow. Jaune's narrative is about doing what you can with the means you can and Weiss had it right when she called his new ways "Brave and Good" in V9. They're just doing what they can to live, to survive and it works best when they work with others. That's why the end resolution of the series is tied with the gods deciding if humanity is "united" or not. Because what matters is not personal strength ("there is no victory to be found in strength"), but strength together. So yeah I don't think KF is the only meaningful ending ship for Jaune at all. My personal opinion is, of course, that WK shows his growth the best over time from the very start of V1 to the end, but you can have a different opinion. Saying KF is the end all be all for narratives is just...disingenuous at best.

>>2867 >Ruby's only feat of development is learning she was perfect all along. This is one of the things I dislike about V9. It basically has the main character commit suicide to reincarnate, only for her to stay basically the same, after a lame therapy session with the verse's primordial Goddess. Everyone was theorizing that she'd become literally older and more mature, or that she'd BECOME Summer Rose or in a darker direction, become an almost puppet like shell of herself (a Ruby Rose 2.0), SOMETHING to illustrate her changing. Frankly Ruby didn't NEED to significantly develop. Jaune did, he's the hero that goes on a journey of self-realization, Ruby seems to have been intended as the born natural, the chosen one that didn't need huge arcs of development, but merely an adaptation and evolution of her existing convictions (see her discussion with Oobleck and how she had the correct answer for being a Huntress compared to Weiss, Blake and Yang, who needed to self-reflect before understanding their purpose as Huntresses. Then again that Treeleaf smoke psychedelic episode was also flaccid.

>>2935 Sounds good and fits RWBY's music-song style too. Girl has some talent, very, very little if any autotune. Also you do know that you can upload mp3s right?

>>3068 >So yeah I don't think KF is the only meaningful ending ship for Jaune at all. My personal opinion is, of course, that WK shows his growth the best over time from the very start of V1 to the end, but you can have a different opinion. Saying KF is the end all be all for narratives is just...disingenuous at best. He's not being disingenuous. Regardless of preference anyone can see that the effect either ship would have on the narrative if they actually happened is dramatically different. They're not really in the same league at all. Besides he was mainly talking about something that speaks to Jaune's actual impact on the story. Thats what he was referring to. Meaningful in terms of contribution to the story.

>>3092 It is quite disingenuous, though. That's not how Jaune's narrative is at all. Saying it all hinges on whether or not he redeems one very specific villain is quite ridiculous too. >Regardless of preference anyone can see that the effect either ship would have on the narrative if they actually happened is dramatically different. Not really. If he went for the redemption route, that would be one story, but so would be following the development of his relationships with the others close to him. They all show the progression of his journey. Again, I'm only going to speak for WK here, but that particular ship emphasizes how Jaune has grown over time and his goal has matured from just becoming a hero to saving everyone he can. To be as good as he can regardless of what happens (and also to rely on others). And Jaune's impact the story as one of the main cast isn't really dependent on the ship at all. There are many ways you can write it out. Trying to claim it is restricted to one is very disingenuous.

>>3097 >Not really. If he went for the redemption route, that would be one story, but so would be following the development of his relationships with the others close to him. Dude, we're being objective here. You put these two cases side by side and they have wildly different outcomes for the story. We're not just talking about character development here. In the first scenario, nothing about the story changes. The second scenario can quite literally resolve the plot. Weiss and Jaune get together and you get cute moments here and there. If one of the main villains is on our side? the plot completely changes. These two scenarios are not remotely equivalent or on the same level at all. One clearly has far more drastic story ramifications.

>>3099 Yeah and objectively I don't see why Jaune inserting his dick in one specific villain narratively changes anything significantly at all. Those different outcomes you mention are all legitimate to Jaune's story. The plot can resolve either way still conveying the message I described about the story in my first post on this topic. It doesn't really have anything to do with cute moment either. Whether a villain does a faceturn or not too is not hinged on romance either as well...that's another reason it is quite disingenuous

>>3103 >Yeah and objectively I don't see why Jaune inserting his dick in one specific villain narratively changes anything significantly at all. Now THIS is being disingenuous. You're literally asking me why does changing a main villain change the story. Are you serious? Antagonists are the reason the plot exists. They antagonize the protagonists and create conflict. If they stop being the antagonist, conflict stops. This is basic storytelling. This is common sense. Cinder is a major antagonist 2nd only to Salem herself. You're really trying to argue that one of the actual major antagonists of the story changing sides ISNT a major shift in the plot? Are you actually being serious? >Those different outcomes you mention are all legitimate to Jaune's story. This isn't even my point, my point is that one of those things clearly has a bigger impact on the plot than the other one. Thats all. I'm not even saying WK is bad I'm just saying it doesn't change the story in the same way KF does. >Whether a villain does a faceturn or not too is not hinged on romance either Again, this is NOT the argument. The point was: if the two relationships actually happened only one of them leads to dramatic changes in the story, and the other does not. Only one of them leads to Jaune directly resolving one of the major sources of conflict in the story. Thus becoming a Hero through unconventional means. Him having some character development with Weiss has nothing to do with that.

>>3103 >hat's another reason it is quite disingenuous You keep using the word disingenuous.... I don't think you know what that means. >I don't see why Jaune inserting his dick in one specific villain narratively changes anything significantly at all. <Making a main villain 'see the light' isn't significant Ok lol >Whether a villain does a faceturn or not too is not hinged on romance either as well. If you're being broad, then you'd be correct that not all villain redemptions are hinged on romance. Cinder however is different; her entire mind-set, the avaricious pursuit of power is born of a lack of love, a reflection of the hatred, indifference and cruelty she received. The opposite of hatred... is love. Jaune's Arc is going from an action hero to a matured True Hero the show's overarching theme since the FIRST EPISODE has been finding a different way to victory. In many ways his story should culminate in a Christ the redeemer sort of position a la Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27, and Romans 12:20

>>3104 And I asked you again what Jaune sticking his dick in her changes yet nowhere in this raving post is an answer to that simple question. Cinder having a change of heart and KF are two entirely separate things. That's why it is disingenuous for you to say >this particular plot is connected to this ship Because that's completely untrue. Cinder could "turn good" without needing to be redeemed by Jaune. She could even simply make a decision in the end to not be like Salem. Also, again, I don't think redeeming Cinder is as major as you are claiming. Sure, she is the catalyst to the plot for what happened in Beacon but since the antagonist has expanded to Salem her direct role in the end of Remnant is lesser. Aside from her gating the final relic, if that is a plot point. Whether they kill her or redeem her, its certainly not as important as you claim it to be. Especially with how brutally the rest of Salem's cabinet has died so far. >Him having some character development with Weiss has nothing to do with that. It has meaning for his journey and learning the lesson of the series. That there is no victory to be found in strength, alone. But rather in simply being as good as you can be and working together with others. >>3106 >You keep using the word disingenuous.... I don't think you know what that means. I do and the post that responded to me still hasn't answered the very basic question I posed so it continues to be disingenuous. >why does Jaune putting his dick in Cinder have anything to do with redeeming Cinder? >Cinder however is different; her entire mind-set, the avaricious pursuit of power is born of a lack of love, a reflection of the hatred, indifference and cruelty she received. The opposite of hatred... is love. OK, this is a better answer. But its still a stretch The opposite of hatred is kindness, not love. Arguably, it is also forgiveness. So its not like Cinder finding love is inarguably linked with her "redemption" here in the first place and her backstory itself really has little to do with finding love either. Rather she just wanted to find a place to live. So its much more general kindness than it is love. I still don't see why KF itself is somehow superior in these themes when they can be incorporated with most other ship ends as well.

>>3108 >nowhere in this raving post is an answer to that simple question I literally did. I'm not sure how you can miss it. I even simplified it for you. What part are you not understanding? >Cinder having a change of heart and KF are two entirely separate things. Except they're not. Thats very literally the whole premise of the ship. >Cinder could "turn good" without needing to be redeemed by Jaune. Even if this were true(it's not) it's also not the point. Because the point is that if KF is a thing at all it's inherently going to involve a conversation about that. >I don't think redeeming Cinder is as major as you are claiming. Then this is either ignorance or dishonesty. Because as I've stated stopping a main source of conflict in the story is objectively significant. > Especially with how brutally the rest of Salem's cabinet has died so far. Irrelevant. These are minor villains not major villains. The main villains of the story are Salem & Cinder. >It has meaning for his journey and learning the lesson of the series. Which is again, not the point. We're talking about actual impact on the plot. Resolving narrative conflict. WK doesn't do that. Also Jaune ALREADY has the development you're talking about without anything romantic with Weiss. >So its not like Cinder finding love is inarguable linked with her "redemption" here in the first place and her backstory itself really has little to do with finding love either. Ok so this is the fundamental misunderstanding we're having here. Yes. Love is inherently linked with Cinder finding redemption. Her backstory isn't about "finding" love it's about how the utter lack of it broke her and resulted her seeking power instead. Because no one loved her. Only power saved her. This believe causing her to in turn hurt others because she herself is still hurt. This contrasted with Ruby & Cinder's arcs in V8 & V9. Love saves Ruby and gets her to continue choosing herself. While the lack of it broke Cinder and leads her to become a monster. Love is a major theme in the story and a key part of Cinder's arc as well as the fundamental tool through which the characters will resolve the conflict and restore balance.

>>3110 >I literally did. You did not. You didn't address it until the end of your current response now. KF and having a change of heart are two entirely separate things. Does KF involve it? Yes. But that doesn't mean Cinder turning coat is inherently linked to it. Or was Hazel turning coat inherently linked to him falling in love with Oscar or something? That's what is disingenuous about this argument. >Even if this were true(it's not) it's also not the point. Because the point is that if KF is a thing at all it's inherently going to involve a conversation about that. It is true, though. Cinder could be redeemed through kindness...or she could be make a last second choice to back out of her decision or turn her back on Salem realizing what exactly it is she desires. There are plenty of ways for Cinder's story to play out here and some are redemption, but stating that the only path to redemption for Cinder is through Jaune's love is just...crazy talk. Also, yes, Cinder is not as major as you claim here to be. It's not dishonest to say that, either. She was the main villain of RWBY for V1-3, sure. But since then Salem has taken over and Salem is the source of all the conflict here, more specifically her immortality and control over the Grimm. Cinder...is just one of the minor villains under her. We've already seen two of those die in various ways now, too. You're placing a lot of importance on her story when its already expanded far past that. Also, if this is about Cinder appearing in V1 or something, so did Roman but that man died a horrible death. There's nothing saying Cinder has to be redeemed for the story to have merit, it really hinges on what happens to Salem not her. >Which is again, not the point. We're talking about actual impact on the plot. Resolving narrative conflict. WK doesn't do that. The narrative conflict is, in and of itself, divorced from the ships. You try (badly) to inherently link KF to changing Cinder but there is nothing stopping Cinder for changing for many other reasons besides finding love and even then finding love specifically with Jaune. Who, arguably, she doesn't pay as much mind as you think. In V8 she certainly didn't until he killed Penny and at the end it was only out of sheer pettiness that she went after Jaune and Weiss like she did. >Also Jaune ALREADY has the development you're talking about without anything romantic with Weiss. It's true that he has STARTED to have that development and Weiss brought into view once more that he can be good without succeeding, but Jaune was isolated for many years. Him coming back to Remnant and becoming a part of the group that saves it from Salem is also important to his journey. Again, not linked to a specific romance like I stressed above, but WK in particular is significant at least because its extremely emblematic of the changes Jaune went through since V1-2. >Yes. Love is inherently linked with Cinder finding redemption. Her backstory isn't about "finding" love This is contradictory. Once again, love takes many forms, I don't see what Jaune sticking his dick in her has anything to do with her receiving general kindness or forgiveness or redemption for her actions. Or why Jaune in particular when his story doesn't have anything to do with that and also Cinder isn't even the main crux of the story either. >Love saves Ruby and gets her to continue choosing herself. Yeah, a MOTHER's love. Not romantic at all. So really it has nothing to do with KF unless for some reason you're insisting Ruby wants to fuck her mother or something.

>>3111 >KF and having a change of heart are two entirely separate things. Again, no. they're not. It's the premise of the ship existing in the first place. >Or was Hazel turning coat inherently linked to him falling in love with Oscar or something? This has literally nothing to do with Cinder. >Cinder could be redeemed through kindness If that were enough she'd be redeemed already. And the argument isn't about whether Cinder could be redeemed through other means. The argument is that if Jaune is responsible then it's a much more significant change in the story and says a lot more about the actual impact he's had on the plot. >Also, yes, Cinder is not as major as you claim here to be. It's not dishonest to say that, either. She was the main villain of RWBY for V1-3, sure. But since then Salem has taken over and Salem is the source of all the conflict here, more specifically her immortality and control over the Grimm. Cinder...is just one of the minor villains under her. We've already seen two of those die in various ways now, too. You're placing a lot of importance on her story when its already expanded far past that. Now we're pretending as if Cinder isn't a main villain. She's been a long standing antagonist since the start of the story. Not only is she the cause of the Heroes greatest tragedy in the story that literally becomes the inciting incident that causes them to go on this journey in the first place but is also the cause of their second major defeat in the fall of Atlas. What are you even talking about? Theres nothing "minor" about any of that. Hazel, Watts or even Tyrian haven't damaged the Heroes anywhere near as dramatically as Cinder has. It's not even a comparison. Being the #2 of the Big Boss is not a minor role in the slightest. Quite the opposite. This would be like calling Obito a "minor" villain because he's second to Madara. >The narrative conflict is, in and of itself, divorced from the ships. Only the ones that don't directly influence the plot. An antagonist falling in love with a protagonist, someone they're directly involved with, influences their motivations and goals. Since they are the ones causing the conflict, this directly affects how the plot will play out. >This is contradictory. No it's not? finding love wasn't the point of her backstory it was about the lack of it. >I don't see what Jaune sticking his dick in her I...never made this claim? Only person talking about that here is you man. >Yeah, a MOTHER's love. Not romantic at all. Nobody made that claim? My initial comment was about love's overall role in the story. Of course its going to take different forms and appear in different ways. In the context of KF it would obviously be romantic. But we're getting side-tracked here. The ultimate point that I and the initial poster were making is that Jaune being the one to ultimately end the long-standing conflict with Cinder through love not power would be a way of him becoming a Hero through non-traditional means. Doesn't matter whether you don't personally think Cinder has to be redeemed with romantic love or not because the argument is that IF he did the results would change the narrative in a much bigger way than simply getting with some other girl. Theres no need to take personal offense that WK doesn't do that. It has it's own merits.

>>3112 First off, let's establish something. This is what the poster I originally responded to said. >This isn't bad in and of itself, but I can't see anything other than a knightfall scenario for him to have a meaningful ending. Let's start from there. Why is he connecting knightfall to a "meaningful ending"? It seems like you're connecting it to the idea of him being a "Hero through non-traditional means" but this is already something Jaune has begun establishing and is in no way necessarily connected with Cinder. Nor is it a hard requirement that even romances Cinder to help her, nor does it have to be Jaune that helps her. And as I said above, I contest the need for Cinder to be the central plot element here. She is simply not after V3. It's Salem and Ozma. Other villains, in the same position Cinder is in, have already died ignominious deaths too so her dying one would hardly be the plot impact you are claiming it is... And again, I want to establish again what exactly the premise I was replying to was. Why is it "KF-only"? It simple is not. Your point about him becoming a hero through redeeming Cinder is fine and valid but that original point is not. OK, now let me address your actual post again. >KF and having a change of heart are two entirely separate things. >Again, no. they're not. It's the premise of the ship existing in the first place. Cinder can be redeemed through other means than just KF. Cinder being redeemed does not require KF nor does it even require Jaune. This remains true, you're not rebutting this. >This has literally nothing to do with Cinder. It has everything to do with Cinder because Hazel is the direct example of one of Salem's lieutenants going back on her and it was out of trust, not love. So you can already see someone in Cinder's exact same position was not treated the way you are claiming. There are many paths. >The argument is that if Jaune is responsible then it's a much more significant change in the story and says a lot more about the actual impact he's had on the plot. Jaune has already had an impact on the plot through his journey. You're marginalizing Jaune here for some reason. Besides that, again, Cinder being redeemed and KF are still two separate things as I addressed above. Even if its a near requirement for KF, that doesn't change it from happening with other ships, so claiming KF is "the only one" is highly highly disingenuous. >Now we're pretending as if Cinder isn't a main villain I never said that. But Salem is the villain behind her. Hazel, Watts and Tyrian are directly comparable to her as they confront the heroes themselves under the command of the actual final villain many times. Cinder is just a Starscream instead of a Megatron, as an example. Plus if you're trying to place importance on her because she appeared in V1 whereas Salem did not technically (Salem was only narrating), then remember that so did Roman and he was a total wet fart of a redemption story. A pawn of Cinder's as she was a pawn of Salem's in turn. Also, comparing Obito to Cinder is wayyyy too much credit to Cinder. Obito turned far more actions that Cinder ever did for Madara and influenced a lot more. Cinder is just one of Salem's footsoldiers in the end, not the central point of Salem's plan. Salem could have disposed of her whenever she wanted to... >Only the ones that don't directly influence the plot. No, because again, Cinder being redeemed doesn't require KF at all. And also, the alternative, Cinder being killed, is not the tragedy you claim it. They already killed off Watts and Hazel, the story could easily do the same to Cinder and resolve in a meaningful way for Jaune as a hero. >No it's not? finding love wasn't the point of her backstory it was about the lack of it. Cinder's story was not about lack of love, but more specifically lack of kindness. Romance had no part in it. Actually, romance is pretty divorced from Cinder in the story of RWBY completely, even her interactions with Emerald are just her using her for an ends to a means. Compared to someone like other characters like, say, Weiss who have romance as a central element to their character development and story, I don't see the need here for that specifically. >Nobody made that claim? Yeah but when you talk about love and then try to convert it to specifically romantic love, the comparison falls flat when you comparator is Summer loving Ruby (absolutely non-romantic). Among other comparisons. And I also contest the point that WK doesn't advance Jaune's story as a hero. Weiss only comes to appreciate Jaune when he changes his aims to become the hero wanted to be all along (not some doing it just for looks and as a poser, but to genuinely help people). And she may only come to love him when he finally takes that finally step to cement his status after being misguided in the EA. She is the only who catalyzed him to understand his goals were never wrong all along, after all.

>>3112 And actually, after looking back at the naruto comparison for a second, I realized that Cinder is not just not Obito, she's Orochimaru. Who also, ironically, gets a redemption himself. Except its basically played for laughs and he stays away from the future cast, its actually pretty close to how the Scarletverse handles Cinder and Adam. Lol.

>>3114 NTA How the fuck is Cinder anything like Orochimaru? Narrative wise she's closer to Obito, from being a powerful international terrorist undermining society, down to being the manipulated pawn of an even more powerful final boss (Madar/Salem) that is only surpassed by literal God(s)/goddess(es), with motivation closer to Sasuke (seeking power and rejecting bonds). The closest to Orochimaru is Watts and even then it's loose. In terms of immortality he's like Ozpin, but that's about it. >inb4 Cinder v Oz is like Orochi vs Hiruzen Obito vs Minato

>>3115 >being a powerful international terrorist undermining society, This is also Orochimaru, though. They were both part of Akatsuki too. >down to being the manipulated pawn of an even more powerful final boss (Madar/Salem) You can also argue Orochimaru was also manipulated but one reason he feels more Cinder-like in comparison is because of his large presence in Arc 1 of Naruto, including even infiltrating the exams multiple times to mingle among them. He also has a confrontation with the protagonist he escapes from. >with motivation closer to Sasuke (seeking power and rejecting bonds). Well, Obito's goal is actually peace, not power. Cinder has no such "unselfish" conceptions and so she's more like Orochimaru who is also seeking more power (and immortality too). I get the feeling Cinder would also want Salem's immortality as well. I don't feel like Watts is close to Orochimaru outside of their whole inventor thing. Watts is a...hmm...maybe a Kisame or a Pein or something? I'd have to think about it. >Orochi vs Oz is like Orochi vs Hiruzen Not wrong actually. And remember Minato beats Obito's ass in that fight so that's inaccurate though, Cinder smashed Ozpin instead. With no injuries too, which is still pretty retarded.

>>3116 Orochimaru was always a minor part of Akatsuki, and his terrorism was primarily consigned to beefing with Konoha. Obito's goal was power to remake a 'perfect' world with Madara's Tsuki no Me illusion, and the rest of the world could die in the process because it made Obito to be the killer he was. His motivation was hatred and selfish desire born of heartbreak and suffering, while Naruto did not break in the face of adversity, like Jaune didn't. Also Uchiha are tied closely to fire as is Cinder. Orochimaru was broken inside on a human level, sadistic more like Tyrian in that regard. Watts is only loosely like Orochimaru; being an arrogant 'genius' scientist that deserted his home country to pursue his own aims, also fits Sasori. Kisame, Hidan and Deidara are more like Tyrian, minus the fanatical god worship. Pein and Konan were more like Hazel, minus being puppet leaders. This is all not 1:1 however (obviously) >Minato beats Obito's ass in that fight Not really, he landed one good shot, but in the end Obito achieved his goal; killing the 4th Hokage, causing chaos with the Kyuubi and damaging Konoha by throwing shade on the Uchiha, weakening the village and depriving it of a mature jinchuriki. Besides Hiruzen also nearly killed Orochimaru, so both could go as examples.

>>3117 Well, Orochimaru's terrorism wasn't just constrained to Konoha though. He had bases all over the world, he killed the Kazukage personally and he took over an entire country basically to rule as its supposed hidden village. Obito's motivation was never based on destruction, it was something based on a perfect world as you said and although it was selfish it's still nothing like Cinder's goals. I do agree the Uchiha are connected to fire much more than Orochimaru though. But the role Orochimaru plays is much more similiar to Cinder's. I thought about Sasori for Watts, but not sure. Sasori was pretty minor all things considered. I disagree on Kisame being like Tyrian at least, Kisame isn't mentally broken at all, he just needed to find a place to belong. I guess he is as loyal to Obito as Tyrian is to Salem though. >Not really, he landed one good shot And nearly murdered him. Yeah, Obito got what he wanted (kind of), but he still got his ass beat. Orochimaru did something similar too but he actually won his fight.

>>3113 Every time you respond to me it's you misunderstanding my post by responding with counter arguments to points I never made. >Why is he connecting knightfall to a "meaningful ending"? What he's ultimately referring to is the sort of ending akin to having the hero save the day where they get their big contribution to the plot in ending the conflict with the villain. In Hero stories this is typically defeating the villain. When he refers to KF he's talking about Jaune being the one to finally put a stop to Cinder. Just not in the way that most Heroes would. Sayng that Cinder has nothing to do with Jaune's story is a little silly since his entire story is wrapped up in his antagonism with Cinder. >I contest the need for Cinder to be the central plot element here. No one said "central" but she is a main plot element. Undeniably so. >Other villains, Are not as important as Cinder. Cinder is objectively a bigger villain than every antagonist except for Salem herself. >Why is it "KF-only"? It simple is not The ship has different requirements and a different impact on the story than WK or other ships. Thats why it's different. It's not the only form of Heroism he can preform it's simply one of the biggest ones. >It has everything to do with Cinder because Hazel is the direct example of This doesn't have anything to do with Cinder. No one was making the argument that Hazel was redeemed because of romantic love or that all characters will be redeemed because of romantic love. >Jaune has already had an impact on the plot through his journey. No one said he didn't. I'm saying that him fundamentally changing the allegiance of one of the villains through romance is an even BIGGER impact on the plot. >I never said that. But Salem is the villain behind her. You literally called her a minor villain dude. And so what? Being 2nd to Salem isn't minor. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon >Hazel, Watts and Tyrian are directly comparable to her They're objectively not. None of them have had the impact on the plot that Cinder has. They were introduced, caused problems for the Heroes once and then were killed off. >Also, comparing Obito to Cinder is wayyyy too much credit to Cinder. It doesn't have to be Obito. You can literally pick any other #2 to the Big Boss in fiction. The point is that Cinder fulfills the same role. Which again, isn't a minor one. >No, because again, Cinder being redeemed doesn't require KF at all. This is irrelevant. Whether you think that Cinder can be redeemed with or without KF doesn't change the argument. Because the argument is that IF she is redeemed through KF then it outright changes the course of the story. The involvement of KF affects the plot. Thats the point. >the alternative, Cinder being killed, is not the tragedy you claim it. ??? I never claimed this. >Cinder's story was not about lack of love, but more specifically lack of kindness. No. It was love. Thats the point that the story is trying to establish about what leads characters to break when they suffer trauma without love and support. Thats the contrast we get in V9. The whole point is that Cinder didn't have that. >Romance had no part in it. In regards to her backstory I wasn't specifically talking about romantic love I mean love in general. The point is that love in any form is completely absent from her childhood. >Yeah but when you talk about love and then try to convert it to specifically romantic love, the comparison falls flat when you compare it to Summer loving Ruby (absolutely non-romantic). Dude, comparison does not mean literally EXACTLY the same. You can compare something without needing them to be 1 to 1. It's just the general idea that love, regardless of which form it takes, can save people. >And I also contest the point that WK doesn't advance Jaune's story as a hero. Once again, not the argument. No one ever made this claim. The argument was that KF results in Jaune significantly impacting the plot. WK doesn't impact the plot. For some reason, you're taking this as some sort of slight against WK. >And actually, after looking back at the naruto comparison for a second, I realized that Cinder is not just not Obito, she's Orochimaru. Ok? Orichimaru isn't a minor villain. Nor was he teamed up with the final boss of his world. This is moot. We're beginning to splinter off into too many tangents. So in any future replies I'll be ignoring anything I consider fluff and trying to stick to the core of the argument. Otherwise we'll get lost in all the little detours and lose sight of what we're even talking about. lol.

>>3118 He killed the Kazekage to gain control of the Sand's military forces, but he didn't destroy it. He ambushed Rasa when he was alone. Similar to the WF trying to kill Ghira and rally Menagerie's faunus into war. His covert bases are only more evidence of more similarity to the White Fang, and he doesn't really rule a country, the Hidden Sound isn't really a village like Konoha as it is more of a loose set of ninja groups. >Obito's motivation was never based on destruction He wanted to destroy the Ninja World because it was flawed and produced people like him. Cinder similarly has no love for Remnant's people, as their society produced her and people like her. Obito's goals are also not really his, but Madara's who instilled them into him when he 'rescued' him just as Salem did with Cinder, it's Salem's plans to get the Maidens and Relics, and instilled this into Cinder. Both played on granting and playing on the need for power. >Sasori He was a genius Sand nin that basically went rogue with his mastery of puppetry, and having no love or loyalty to his village. Watts similarly was a top military scientist of Atlas, and abandoned it for his own goals, the difference being that Watts is much more self-absorbed. >Kisame isn't mentally broken Kisame enjoys fighting and killing just for the fun of it, he seeks a 'true' world in Obito just as Tyrian sees it in Salem. Tyrian is more deranged though. >nearly murdered him He damaged him significantly, but Obito was restored pretty much completely since all Minato damaged was the Zetsu portion of his body which is pretty much unkillable conventionally (see Kakashi putting a hole in Obito's heart and the latter not really reacting to it as a fatal wound). Orochimaru may have killed Hiruzen, but Konoha overall wasn't significantly weakened and defeated his forces, while Obito's plan forced Minato to sacrifice himself and even then that couldn't reverse the immense ramifications.

All that other stuff aside, I thought I'd bring this up as a reasonable semblance evolution for Jaune. <--picrel MKEK would never do it obviously but I do think it's fitting and deserves to be mentioned.

>>3077 Honestly didn't know that

>>3153 Now you do lol. I even made custom thumbnail icons for files without their own thumbnail. >>3152 That is an interesting idea, for some reason it reminds me of Jujutsu Kaisen's Reverse Curse technique, and Mahito's Soul manipulation, though for the latter only in the capacity to repair the body.

>>3156 >That is an interesting idea, for some reason it reminds me of Jujutsu Kaisen's Reverse Curse technique, and Mahito's Soul manipulation, though for the latter only in the capacity to repair the body. The advanced healing is given but I'm interested in the Power Bestowal aspect. Him being able to give out power but actually take it back. It would make sense as a reflection of Jaune's growth. So far he's been far too selfless. Always giving to other people. Him learning to actually take his power back(which would also make him stronger) would be a great way to show him finally having value in himself and put himself first for once. Thats one of the big pieces of development he needs as a character.

>>3157 >I'm interested in the Power Bestowal aspect. <being able to give out power but actually take it back. Very God of Light like

Y'know I was feeling pretty bad for stinking up this thread with shipping discourse. I know people don't like that so I try to avoid it as much as possible. But then I thought about it, and realized...it's kinda necessary? I mean this thread is about Jaune. So discussing what relationship he's likely to end up in is pretty relevant to him. As well as talking about how he's going to handle Cinder. Who is a big personal antagonist for him. Can't really talk about that without talking about either powerups or Knightfall. It's all ultimately relevant to Jaune. So it kinda needs to be talked about to some extent.

>>3287 I mean shipping talk is part of RWBY, it's part and parcel of the fandom. So long as we don't JUST talk about it, I think we're doing fine - the story, world-building, characters etc. are being discussed.

>>3288 Alright. Going back to powerups for a sec. It's actually insane that MKEK ignored this potential sword powerup for Jaune. I don't know if they forgot or if they're saving it for later but a sword like this with Light-Dust stacked on with amplified aura would do insane damage. To anyone. Even a maiden.

>>3290 Yeah I agree, the Hardlight Dust and then add his Aura being extended and we basically get an ethereal Buster Sword-size slash. The Aura slashes from that would make Qrow cutting off a roof when fighting Tyrian look like childs play. Monty would have loved that shit. Just imagine Jaune pulling a Xenovia (vid rel). I would reckon more that they forgot it, or deliberate ignore it. PS. Long response was because I was clipping vid rel

>>3305 Dope. The writers have nerfed the characters to building lvl so we'll probably never see anything of that caliber tho. I still really don't like how the fandom pretends Jaune's semblance can't do anything offensive. It objectively can. Jaune just hasn't figured it out yet.

>>3346 Well yeah probably not on THAT scale, but still I would suspect it could go quite high. Also add the "extending aura" effect. >the fandom pretends Jaune's semblance can't do anything offensive. Most of the fandom that thinks that are Jaune haters to begin with, or people who just want to bitch and moan because Jaune isn't being Goku and beating up Frieza Salem all by himself

>>3347 >Most of the fandom that thinks that are Jaune haters to begin with, or people who just want to bitch and moan because Jaune isn't being Goku and beating up Frieza Salem all by himself Yeah I really don't like that about the fandom. Both sides take two opposite extremes. One side acts like they think he should be a literal god and the other side as a reaction to that, tries to paint Jaune as an ordinary guy who is just supposed to remain a weakling forever and never get stronger. Whats even more annoying is how they'll try to spin that into a good thing for his character like he should just stop making progress and remain a weakling. Obviously the real answer to this is somewhere in the middle. Jaune is clearly supposed to get stronger and be really powerful. But above someone like Salem? probably not. It's disingenuous on the part of the fandom to pretend that aura amplification can't be offensive or have the potential to magnify his attacks.

>>2622 Nah, that would be lame. He's dedicated to being a hero one way or another to the point he cheated to be in Beacon and never faltered. My fauner also didn't kill Penny and spend 30 years in the ever after to say fuck it. If there was ever a moment for him to head back home we've passed it in vol. 7 when the gang was kinda falling apart.

>>3415 To be fair him being dedicated to being a Hero is being portrayed as detrimental to his health. But I definitely agree that it's unlikely that he's going back. If he did though? I honestly wouldn't hold it against him.

>>3440 >him being dedicated to being a Hero is being portrayed as detrimental to his health. While true, it's detrimental in part because he's growing into the role and learning to balance things out.

>>3290 Pointed and edged weapons are just nerfed to fuck against people. Yes, sometimes they get through but for example when's the last time that Weiss actually landed an attack with her rapier point against a human target. I haven't combed through the show but I feel like it's never happened. Meanwhile who hasn't Yang punched who she's fought. Like, the fighs have to be somewhat balanced, so the more devastating the attack feels like it would be, the less it's going to happen.

>>3563 >Pointed and edged weapons are just nerfed to fuck against people I mean Aura does really blunt it's effectiveness, kinda how plate and chain-mail made sword design change to either be heavy and so have the weight to cut through, or become small and narrow, to punch through or get into the cracks. Alternatively war-hammers and maces worked better. Then guns made armor become more and more obsolete as the power of firearms improved. Characters in general have been nerfed to shit. Ruby was creating Tornadoes in V2 just by running fast, now she never does so. Yang's punches against the Paladin shook the thing even before her semblance activated, yet later she's barely doing shit against smaller people and even grimm who have no aura.

Anyone read "A Villainous Arc" by barsev or any of his other fics with Jaune as the MC? what´s your opinion

>>3760 Like Coeur, barsev writes a PRODIGIOUS amount and in terms of technical skill is quite good. However I Personally don't care for most of his fics, because (like Couer) good ideas and plot threads get derailed into directions that are kinda just lame and edgy, and many characters feel caricaturesque or even completely out of character at times. Villainous Arc, what I've read of it (I dropped it at some point) is an encapsulation of this. The idea is good but the further the story goes the less it feels like RWBY and more like an edgy 90s parody of Heist and Vigilante movies, with Remnant world-building being little more than window dressing half the time. Replace RWBY and Remnant with 1990s New York City and perhaps a Spiderman-Daredevil rogues gallery and there's little impact on the story most of the time. Maybe this changes later on in the story but in-so-far as I read, that's the conclusion I drew. Honestly for a gritty Jaune on the streets of Vale fic I prefer something like https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14045606/1/Money-and-Cigarettes-on-the-Streets-of-Vale Again this is my personal opinion, nothing more.

>>3764 >>3760 Doesn't he cuck and/or dunk on Pyrrha a lot in his fics like Coeur does? Or am I mistaken. I do know there's Schneekos-dom in some.

>>3563 > when's the last time that Weiss actually landed an attack with her rapier point against a human target. When's the last time she's landed a proper attack against anything that isn't complete fodder?

What kind of armor should adult Jaune wear?

>>4734 Honestly I think a cleaned version of his Rusted Knight Armor was peak. It had extra chainmail protection and and covered more of his body (such as the belly), yet clearly didn't hinder his movements.

>>4126 https://youtu.be/du6jnp12BFs?feature=shared >>4734 I think he should drop it altogether. It doesn’t actually do anything to protect him, and he should dress like a stylish French man instead. His current outfit with all the armour looks way too hot for Vacuo anyway, I’d like to see him without it at least once.

>>4764 >vid <Weiss going up against a very reluctant Marrow Does that really even count?

Do you guys think Jaune will actually do anything in the story going forward? or is he ultimately destined to be a background character.

>>5846 Are we really doin' this shit again? He's always done stuff in the story, and obviously he's still going to do things.

>>5846 He’s one of the most important characters in the show, definitely he has a lot more of influence on the plot than Weiss who is a titular character. The whole lore of him being the Rusted Knight is a pretty cool thing, he’s only really behind Ozma and Salem in terms of mythical status. And he’s the lead male character, more or less, in a show which has a dearth of male characters and plenty of single ladies. So he’s all but guaranteed romantic relevance. He still needs to progress his semblance further, and lead his team again, at minimum. He’s almost certainly going to face off with Cinder again. They can’t drop him anymore, barring another lame political divergence plot line which basically everyone shat on the conclusion of last time. If I were a Jaune whiner I’d feel much more demoralised by Volume 9, and what that indicates about the trajectory of the story, than be thinking that Jaune is going to return to be a genuine background character, which he only remained as for a single volume (Volume 7). Eddy and Kiersi are just massive Rubyfags and Jaunefags, and don’t give a fuck about WBY. There’s no two ways about it. Monty would unironically be proud.

>>5850 It makes sense to ask. Just out of curiosity. Most of the RWBY fandom doesn't seem to expect anything.

>>5890 >Eddy and Kiersi are just massive Rubyfags and Jaunefags, and don’t give a fuck about WBY. Whoa is this true? Thats hype if it is.

>>5892 Volume 7 - Volume 9 has given WBY absolutely nothing outside of the fact that Blake and Yang get to suck face. When Miles and Kerry were the only writers, they at least made Blake and Yang relevant to the plot, through Raven, the White Fang, and Adam, even if they didn’t bother with Weiss. Eddy and Kiersi don’t even bother with BY and are seemingly satisfied with them just being lesbians. Oscar and Cinder are more like main characters than any of WBY these days. I’m being a little tongue in cheek with the whole Eddy is a Jaunefag thing but still…

>>5891 Most of the fandom is retarded ('specially the jaune haters) And sorry, kinda tired of the Jaune downplay even from supposed Jaune-stans.

<picrel Jaune fans every Volume:

>>5935 >Gayass strawman bait Shut up Neo

>>5936 It's true tho. People can't even imagine him doing anything in any volume. I think V7 was the last volume where he was a background character. He's gonna be super relevant in V10 after that setup he just got in V9.

>>5971 >People can't even imagine him doing anything in any volume. Because most people lack imagination, nor pay attention to detail. >V7 was the last volume where he was a background character. He was only a background character in so much as he wasn't making massive decision but he was still a key member of the main cast, as opposed to Ren or Blake.

So whats Jaune's next character arc? Your best guess.

>>141 >>6821 Jauneral Cheek clapper, no cheeks unclapped.

>>6821 God's own chosen warrior. Really, he was told by the maker of what are gods to his people that he would be taken to when he was needed most. I don't know what other than a religious experience that would be taken as, once it really settles in to him.

>>2739 Don’t be stupid. Jaune unironically has more of a purpose both narratively and thematically to be there in the final fight than any of WBY do, as well as the dozens upon dozens of worthless side characters populating Vacuo at the moment.

>>2758 >selfishly sit on his ass while the whole world is about to end. Hey now, that’s what our great Messenger of Hope Ruby Rose and her faggot sister were doing during their Beyond episode, so clearly there’s nothing wrong with it!

>>2971 >take the initiative in their respective relationships. >Pyrrha (tell my love interest how to woo another woman) Nikos Wut

>>2935 How am I only hearing this now? This is kino of the highest order, great work anon. Jaune really is one of the redeeming things in this entire shitshow.

>>3157 I’m glad you used Yhwach as a reference because on the Superpowers wiki both he and Jaune are the only two recognized users of “Soul Healing” on the entire page Kek

>>6993 This is true. RWBY fans hate it and think he's just an NPC but Jaune has a lot more going on as a character than they do. The rest are just walking talking merchandise.

>Jauneral >Still have the occasional fag spouting "Jaune's actually not that important lmao. He should just leave the series" This always happens whenever Jaune gets discussed anywhere and I don't get it. Are Jaune fans supposed shit on him in between praises or else they're just a "delusional Jaunefag" and not a real Jaune fan? Why aren't the other characters get the same treatment. It's honestly frustrating seeing this weird demoralization even among Jaune fans on each other too.

>>7044 >Jaune fans supposed shit on him in between praises This sounds really gross. <Wants Jaune to fuck his sister.

>>7048 >Wants Jaune to fuck his sister. I see nothing wrong with this, carry on.

>>7044 I think this is some fans way of actually protecting Jaune. They expect the worst from the writers and think it's better for him to at least leave with some dignity before the writers eventually ruin him.

>>7054 "Protecting" Protecting in the sense of shitting on him before others do? Not how that works. >>7044 People are always gonna bitch about something., there's always that weird category of haters that claims to like a character but really shits on them every chance under the guise of criticism.

>>7055 >Protecting in the sense of shitting on him before others do? Not how that works. I think saying that he sucks and saying he should go home are two different things. Maybe I missed a post but I don't think anyone was arguing the former. I dont think he's gonna go home. I think he's gonna do something super important and epic that actually outshines Team RWBY. I believe that unironically. Theres no way they kept him around for this long and gave him all that focus all for it to amount to nothing. If they end up dropping the ball on that then I think him going home would be a decent alternative.

>>7052 Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Headcanon Jaune routinely breeds his sisters. Fuck it, his mother too.

>>7060 The conversation transplanted from another thread where people were saying the same trite /r/RWBYCritics garbage of "Jaune is useless" and shit like that. Saying he should leave amounts to the same thing as saying he's useless. His power not being offensive in nature is the argument and it's shite. >I think he's gonna do something super important and epic that actually outshines Team RWBY. I believe that unironically. Theres no way they kept him around for this long and gave him all that focus all for it to amount to nothing. Agreed >If they end up dropping the ball on that Then they're retards with a dumb agenda listening to vocal haters, just like with how they killed the extra Lancaster moments in V4 and broke up BlackSun to have CatPiss.

>>7064 >And not just the men, but the women and children too!

>>7074 And his name is Jaune the impaler!

>>7079 Because he's gonna impale Ruby and Cinder on his 'sword'

>>7073 Even if Jaune is useless I would say the same is true for most of the main cast. So to an extent I can understand why they see it that way. Because if you just look at the story theres no clear purpose that he serves. A lot of people really have no idea why he's being kept around. If you had to ask someone what they thought Jaune was going to do in the future or what goal he was going to achieve most people simply wouldn't have an answer. Thats just the reality of it. Theres no hate in acknowledging that. But what these people miss is that the very fact that they're hiding his true purpose in the story from the viewer means they're setting up for him to do something incredibly shocking. >>7087 >Because he's gonna impale Ruby and Cinder on his 'sword' Correct!

Another thing people miss about Jaune that makes him significant is his family. This is one of the things that straight up prove his importance in the story. The simple reason for this is because it's a mystery. That might seem irrelevant to some people but you don't make mysteries out of irrelevant information. If his family is nothing special and nobody important then they would just tell us and move on. Instead they've kept it hidden and only vaguely alluded to them. This is something the writers have been withholding from us for a long time to the point where they can't even publicly speak on it or give hints about it. Again, you don't keep a secret for that long if the secret is nothing special. That means that Jaune and his story is so significant that revealing it too soon would spoil too much about the story.

>>7131 In addition to that, theres also the Cinder story line. Jaune has to be the one to settle that. Anyone else doing it simply wouldn't be interesting.

>>7131 >Another thing people miss about Jaune that makes him significant is his family. Dare I say more.

Is Jaune really the best male character in the story? >Pic rel

Does anyone have a webm of Jaune vs Cinder from the Blu rays? I hear there’s some extra scenes where the choreography isn’t complete shit and Jaune is fighting using some Pyrrha inspired movements.

>>7171 I've never heard that but I doubt anyone is willing to actually purchase RWBY with actual money let alone the Blu ray version.

>>7135 >Dare I say more. Say more.

>>7135 You must >>7162 Yes

>>7162 How the fuck did one of my stupid pics when phoneposting make it onto here?

>>7212 Magic of the internet

>>7175 >>7178 >The simple reason for this is because it's a mystery. Ooooo~ How mysterious. Like a conquering warlord, you are not allowed to see the lords harem and the women at his disposal. >Jaune was a man born into the Arc family whom began to fade into obscurity but you can easily see the pedigree that flows through his blood. Carefully nurtured by the sensual ministrations of his mother he knew the touch of a female more than the back of his hand. I starting to write anything at this point. >Jaunes original purpose was to become the one to continue the bloodline and he was so close to fulfilling his destiny with the announcement of Saphrons pregnancy after he left. Of course he did not know of this, he just accepted the lesbane magic thing. >Falling in love with the stories about his ancestors on how they were heroes. He set out on an instinctual quest to claim lands for himself so he can begin another dynasty much like his forefathers before him. >Pyrrhas and weiss's ovaries quiver in the presence of such a pure Aristocratic bloodline. >Miss Goodwitch can feel the ancient blonde blood inside her gravitate towards the young Arc, she feels the urge telling her that he needs to be stronger and more capable before she can give him a strong heir. >Cinder who is a lowkey chuuni, knows all about the ancient bloodlines. She tries to seduce him with the goal of intermingling her peasant blood with his pure Aristocratic royal blood.

>>7232 Hawt.