>>1168910 If they add gamemodes that aren't 1v1 it's gonna blow up >>1255686 There's a new tribes-like game that I've been waiting for but I'm worried it's gonna be dead on arrival too. The Tribes revival wouldn't have died if game devs didn't compulsively make the dumbest fucking decisions possible. I don't get why they do that. Their players could say "yeah it's good, but we all think you should add __ and change __" and they'll go "counterpoint: what if we do the opposite, leave all the gamebreaking shit that everyone hates alone and add some microtransactions" and then it's a big surprise to them when people stop playing.

>>1205962 Maybe I shouldn't be so critical of it because when I bought it, it only cost 5 dollars. But still, it's now just an uglier CPMA. I remember when it initially entered early access it had a fully textured rocket launcher that looked great, which was promising as a direction for the game to take graphically. The ingame level editor referenced a bunch of placeholder textures with names that implied they would eventually be more than solid colors. They even added a stake gun that could add map manipulation and give a bit more identity but that was removed. It took them years to even add ammo boxes, and most maps are just amateur fan recreations of Quake ones. A lot of the 'development' was just pushing onto modders, there wasn't someone working on maps. It was just an engine. It got 80 hours out of me and I love the level editor but it feels like such a wasted opportunity. I doubt it would have been popular either way but man I wish they didn't give up and copout so quickly either. I felt very disappointed when they said the game was finished in 2017, yet it felt less complete than it did 3 years prior. And then there were cosmetics, very uninspired ones at that, it just feels so non-genuine

any shooters these days that embrace custom maps? the same maps every day gets old no matter what im playing.

>>1267664 It isn't an arena shooter, but Team Fortress 2 is maybe the closest thing I can think of for that. Granted dustbowl and 2fort are absolutely the most played maps by far, there is a big custom map scene and communities of people willing to try new things. If they are of good quality, they are also commonly officially endorsed by Valve. There are like, 20 new maps added to the official pool every year and you can usually find games in them. And some are fantastic, I am very thankful for the mappers and that Valve actually bothers to vet creations at all. They even added 'vscript' support which allowed custom maps like Saxton Hale and Infection to be hosted in maps so they have been added officially. Even in competitive, most maps played by RGL and UGC are custom, usually ending up in the official pool later. And there are frequently experimental brackets with new maps and custom rules. I can't say the same for any other game. Every Quake game has aerowalk, and every Unreal has facing worlds. Every shooter has their 'de_dust2' but TF2 really encourages trying new stuff. "New classic" maps are constantly being added to it. pl_pheonix and cp_altitude are fan favorites and have only been in the list for 2 years.

>>1168910 >lean keys >>1206116 what approach to marketing? rogue isnt even out yet just chill >>1093040 also shooters have to cater themselves to consoles now which naturally leads to ADS, which lends itself to slower games. i miss PC-exclusive FPS

>>1099457 You must be living under a rock if you think fighting games are dying. On the contrary, they are getting more and more popular thanks to every recent game lowering the skill ceiling to cater to literal babies. Though they are in danger of dying again, every single fighting game is currently facing a different problem. SF6 getting no content other than battle passes with avatar cosmetics, Saudis forcing SNK to include stupid guests, MK games having very low shelf life, GG players consisting of pedophiles and nothing else, Tekken doing a speedrun of how to kill a legacy franchise etc. No one, and i mean NO ONE is happy with the current state of fighting games other than redditfags and discuckers who don't even play fighting games.

>>1360838 >SF6 getting no content other than battle passes I mean, it's a fighting game. Do we really need new content forever? I thought the idea was to just keep playing the same thing honing yourself to the limit, like chess or arena shooters or... anything that isn't an MMO, ASSFAGGOT or Battle Royale either. Damn. Whenever people talk like that I get to thinking that the modern industry has really fried our dopamine receptors. I miss getting satisfied with a simple game and playing it for 900 hours without batting an eye, nowadays if a game isn't constantly drip fed with patches and content and constant attention by developers, people will call it dead, move on to the next FOTM fad and the original game dies out even though it's still perfectly playable and a nice experience. Fucking normalfags man.

>>1092808 Let's also address a big, overlooked aspect of these games. Not only did they require hours of practice to master weapons, maps, and spawns, they also required some physical acuity. It's no secret that in the past 20 years, most of the population in developed countries have been getting corpulent, and less likely to exercise to develop the twitch fibers and dexterity to reliably pull off trick shots. But it get's worse. Display technologies have been trying (finally) but still come up short in the motion blur department against the over 100-year old technology of CRT's. Gains have been made with black frame insertion to mask over the sample and hold nature pure digital displays have, but you're still fighting the body's natural pursuit reflex, which expects a smooth, predictable sine wave when instead your still getting a choppy square wave instead. Display resolutions and graphical fidelity, while pretty to look at, are actually a hinderance to competitive play, not just for the hit to raw framerate, but just the sheer amount of distraction, be it weapon particle effects, physics effects on scenery, and overly busy textures(as ugly as UT4 was in it's pre-alpha, I always did better in the greyboxed maps than the overly detailed maps). But an ugly game attracts even fewer players than one with the latest visual tech. Another tangent is the move away from 4:3 or 5:4 to wide aspect ratios and non-fixed FOV's, this is both a blessing and a curse, because if you can get over the nausea of greater than 120 degree fields of view, you gain a huge tactical advantage, but then again, you lose the casual audience that won't or physically can't adapt.

>>1092808 If something as niche as Ratz Instagib still has a playerbase now I'm pretty sure you can find an arena shooter to play >inb4 "Ill get bodied by the autismos with 18khours" Yes, but those older players tend to be a lot less cunty about it, so even if you get absolutely annihilated it won't feel quite as bad as playing anything with a modern player base full of retarded cunts, granted they do expect you to behave as well so you can't just go in and scream nigger like an edgy 14 y/o and expect things to go well. > I can play UT99 all day against bots UT99 bots aren't that interesting to play against, I recall that while trying to play around the Unreal franchise I tried max difficulty bots and they're kinda just okay, compared to UT2004 ones which are spinbot-tier and raise my blood pressure just thinking about them.

>>1360863 Back then, games were made as a complete package though. And expansions were just that, content expanding on the original. In the CURRENT YEAR game developers intentionally release half baked games and drip feed you the remaining content to artifically elongate the lifespan of their games By content in fighting games i refer to new characters and balance patches mainly. Tekken 8 right now is sticking a dragon dildo up its ass with too many changes, but it's the complete opposite for SF6. Except for new characters (which there are so few of, 3 months is too long of a time) the game had absolutely 0 balance patches to shake things up. For close to an entire year, people have been playing the exact same game in the exact same way to the point of monotony. Hell, Ken has been terrorizing everyone since day 1 and still remains the most popular pick among both pros and casuals. Despite that the battle passes and the avatar costumes inside are frequently updated each month. If they want to cater to casuals that badly, maybe they can expand on extreme battles by adding new modifiers? I'm sure you can struck a middle ground between Tekken 8's drastic changes and SF6's little to no changes.

Very few new games, and these games don't usually have singleplayer content to attract new players. Multiplayer-only games have to compete with hero shooters, MOBAs, battle royals ect.

Simple as: Why would anyone play any arena shooter when there's already quake and unreal tournament?

aren't Battle Royale games just shooters in BIG arenas?

>>1092808 I'll be honest, as someone who doesn't play any games with guns on the screen, what are the differences between the "arena shooters" and the ones he is against, unironically curious.

>>1363003 Multiple factors, COD has a more grounded, realistic movement system, realistic weapons, a low time-to-kill, and, as much as people say they don't buy it for it, a single player campaign. Arena shooters define themselves by their unique movement systems (bunny-hopping in Quake, double jumping and dodging in UT), outlandish weapons (lightning gun for Quake/ link gun for UT), and at least in UT's case, tuneable game parameters (low gravity, vampire health where hitting opponents heals you, faster weapon speed) and a higher time to kill usually measured in multiple seconds instead of COD's split second deaths. UT does have, for it's time, competent bots, so you can practice, but you buy an arena shooter expecting to fight other players, often on player-run servers, as opposed to modern matchmaking that throws players together, usually based on their win:loss ratio for team based modes.

>>1363503 Thank you for the reply, so, it's basically a "WRPG vs JRPG" type of thing where one is grounded, gritty, slow, and the other one is a whimsical forest of magic. So, I want to to further ask, what's with the derogatory tone for Call of Duty, I've legitimately never bought into any gun games, and the thread really seems like the correct place to ask.

>>1361050 >Back then, games were made as a complete package though Not only that but they actually tried adding extra modes all the time like the beat em up mode in Tekken 5 or strategy in Soul Calibur 3. Sometimes I see some glimpses of hope like how Soul Calibur 6 had a pretty big chronicles mode but then I see others wasting potential like how Grandblue Fantasy has those boss battles with platformer gimmicks but it's just that, only like 3 and they never added more.

>>1364326 >what's with the derogatory tone for Call of Duty COD is mostly brought up because it's successful, but also, has been running for so long that it's jumped the shark, multiple times. The big reason arena shooter folks are so salty is because FPS was almost exclusively a PC only genre. Starting with the likes of Goldeneye and Halo(yes, there were early attempts in Doom and Quake, but those were all single player focused), the FPS made the leap to consoles, especially in the multiplayer sense. But console controls are ill-suited for precise, snap aiming, so aim assist was put in place so that just shooting in the general direction of your opponent is sufficient. Naturally, to balance this out, mechanics like weapon bloom, where the weapon accuracy decreases if you don't let off the trigger, which randomizes the damage you can do. On top of that, analog sticks can't pull off fast movement, so the game speed is slowed down, limiting your choice of tactics in aiming and movement. Now you have a game not based on quick reflexes and pure skill, but a slower game with skill and dice rolls. Further erosion of the genre came with the switch to more tactical, realistic shooters and the obsession with WWII in the late aughts into the 2010's with Counterstrike, Battlefield (1942 and 2) and Call of Duty.

>>1364825 The WW2 obsession started in the late 90's with Medal of Honor though.

>>1364326 Arena shooters usually had a fuck ton of skill expression and balance in skill between players, with the players having to combine different weapons for different contexts, switching between a ton of buttons to use the advanced movement mechanics in the game as well as switching for several specific weapons, while also managing resources in the map and between players. A lot of balancing in the arena shooter genre also essentially came from the fact that even if you got shot first, you had time to react, adapt, shoot back, and maybe still outskill and win. CoD started simplifying the FPS genre from the very first installment into a "you walk, you shoot with main gun from cover, repeat" that would plague the next decades to come (Halo too), but went even further beyond by simplifying to such a huge degree that it's like comparing chess to checkers, map control does not matter to gameplay, only for scoring, weapons are simplified to the point that they're all equal to each other and have aim assist, time to kill is so short that the first person that sees another often wins by default, and the general decreased speed not only reduced the skill expression, but also incentivized shitty, boring to play against tactics like defensive play by camping. Then, when CoD got popular and the arena shooters started dying out because they both compete for "players interested in shooting mechanics", there's always been this pervasive angst against CoD from older FPS players, and with good reason. That's just it.

>>1364827 >> Medal of Honor >> Playstation (October 31,1999) Close enough. But if we break away from just FPS, the WWII schtick has been well worn on the PC side even in the early 90's with multiple releases from Dynamix from Aces over Europe/Pacific and Chuck Yeager's Air combat in the flight sim department.

>>1092808 >Why did arena shooters die off? Esport cancer which made normalfags think rankings are somehow important.

>>1092808 PvP in general is dead outside of very cancerous forms, and even those cancerous forms are barely functional due to how widespread cheating has become. Arena shooters in particular are dead because, like RTS and fighting games, their developers fell for the compfag memes and completely disregarded the newcomer experience, and once they didn't become gigarich from esports money they wrote off the whole genre. >>1364326 Most of the seething about CoD is second-hand autism that always had questionable accuracy: notice how nobody mentioned the controversy about MW2 killing LAN play and dedicated servers yet, or the removal of bots as an option for multiplayer (later reintroduced), or the killstreaks and the way they snowballed matches... The funniest thing is, nowadays CoD is far more about movement than shooting, but in the worst way possible since it all boils down to hitbox displacement and high angular rates messing with aim assist.

>>1364962 They're controversies because it's an impactful decision in what was an extremely popular game at its time. If CoD weren't popular and came up with these things, then no one would care in the first place because it would have basically no impact in the industry. Besides, it's their more popular and approachable game design that killed arena shooters, simple as that, none of the things you mentioned would impact the existence of arena shooters in a vacuum, CS still uses LAN at tournaments and does okay with online only for competitive, and bots have always been a huge meme in all games other than UT and Q3 in regards to bot competency. >nowadays CoD is far more about movement than shooting People saw that Titanfall 2 was well received and a decent attempt at giving depth to CoD-likes and started copying shit from there without understanding why it worked there in the first place. I physically wince every time I see a player sliding during my first impression of a new FPS. Nu-CoD is as detestable as it has ever been because it didn't fix at all the main issues that the game has when it comes to comparing it to any other decent FPS.

>>1365115 COD is dying and seeing Microsoft buy out all this AAA trash is great because it will only accelerate their demise.

>>1099457 >Same reason fighting games are dying i used to love fighting games for the single player and story modes and both are much much worse these days compared to what they used to be.

>>1365133 >COD is dying I'd love for it to, but what are you basing this claim on?

>>1129972 >and a battlepass Why do you think this is a good thing?

>>1364825 Hit take: every >>1364825 >Naturally, to balance this out, mechanics like weapon bloom, where the weapon accuracy decreases if you don't let off the trigger, which randomizes the damage you can do. Ah, haven't encountered an "every weapon should be a laser beam with 100% accuracy" retard in a while, well met.

>>1609670 The fact that Fortnite is bigger, Activision is trying to compete with it and failing and the fact that both sales and whales have not only plateaued but are actively decreasing. Do you honestly think Bobby would sell Activision to Microsoft if he didn't know how it was ending up?

>>1609749 "every weapon should be a laser beam with 100% accuracy" I loathed that the last, dying years of UT2k4 the playerbase played nothing but instagib. But if your game is going to have a lazy aim mode, with magnetism, using high-ROF, full auto weapons, you need to add something to the formula to keep the game from devolving into "see opponent before they see you-target said opponent-pull and hold trigger-win".

>>1205837 This. If the dev's weren't releasing content, the playerbase was. UT would be an afterthought without Epic giving you the SDK and enabling the community to create maps and mutators for the games, greatly extending the life of the game (you'll never see modern Epic do anything like the Make Something Unreal contest again, feels bad, man). For UT, you wouldn't have Killing Floor or Rocket League or on the Quake side, Team Fortress without the community.

>>1610804 Nor Counter Strike, nor Red Orchestra nor GMOD Shit we could go on all day here, plenty of Medal of Honor Allied Assault and COD1 devs were Quake modders as well. Battlefield Vietnam and Battlefield 2 were made predominantly by modders. It used to be synergetic before Microsoft and 7th Gen arrived and raped everything.

>>1206326 There have been better written versions of this explanation, but this is it and has always been it. Arena shooters were only truly popular for two or three years, quickly became an niche, and died out. They were never some staple or mainstay of gaming. The first true arena shooter is probably 1999's Unreal Tournament and the last big one was 2007's Unreal Tournament 3, an usual outlier released years into the genre's decline. There is only 8 years between "first of its kind" and "belated swansong". Overwatch has been around longer than arena FPS. Let it go, 35+ anons.

>>1610848 Other part was, when these games came out, PC gaming and multiplayer were a novel concept. You had a steady stream of new players getting their first PC and a 56k modem and wanted to try playing against more than one person (It was common to connect to someone local because the phone charges back then would have killed you for long distance). The lack of competition from other games also helped.

>>1610915 As said, this has been much better explained. And as you mention, the reason arena shooters even took off was the novelty and lack of competition. I'd argue there were already better MP FPS like Team Fortress and CS, but for the masses arena shooters were a good entry point. Very simple, easy to learn, high skill ceiling. Another reason they died is because the wider genre evolved while arena FPS didn't, it was hard to compare UT3 to TF2 - both 2007 - and decide "UT3 is the game I want to main". That goes for a lot of other MP FPS of the era. Arena shooters were a fad early in the history of online shooters, and not even a long lived one.