>>2006152 More than a decade actually! Last capeshit flick I saw was Guardians of the Galaxy, and that was enough to swear me off capeshit forever. Last capeshit comics I read physically were Startling Stories: Banner and Elektra (2001), skimmed some Marvel Civil War and just wanted to wipe my ass with the pages. Last digital capeshit comic I read was Irredeemable and all I can say is that the title is the perfect fit. My point still stands, nobody reads American comics anymore.

>>2005966 Sonic expies have been canon in the DC Universe since that one story where the Flash becomes faster than a dude with instant teleportation.

>>2006189 >capeshit >Sonic >canon

>>2006191 https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Krakkl_(New_Earth)

>>2006195 >people bought this

>>2006172 Nobody's read American comics since the '90s, but that was largely due to terrible distribution making it so you had to go to a special store just to see them. Also, if you ever did get one, by this point stories were many issues long and assumed you knew years of continuity, so your first issue would likely leave you baffled, and thus be your last. What anon is referring to a decade ago is the SJW takeover of the industry, where they largely shit on continuity, while simultaneously keeping it around, meaning that old fans are mad and new fans can't form because they're still unable to understand what the fuck is going on. But much worse, they deliberately destroy all the characters and stories that people loved in the first place, because they hate that it's a boy's genre and that it's old, offending their feminism and progressivism. And yes, there were many progressivist comics going back to the dawn of the medium, but that doesn't matter to them, because they're still old and a boy's genre. They'll talk about how they love Captain America because he's punching Hitler on the cover of his first issue, then turn around and make it canon that Captain America was literally a Nazi spy the entire time, because he is literally an old white man, so to them, the difference between him and a Nazi is trivial. It's things like this that drove off the few fans American comics had left. Plus they never did fix the distribution issues, and the prices only got worse and worse. Batman meeting Shadow the Hedgehog is precisely what they should be doing more of. You don't need to know decades of continuity to understand it, it actually stays true to the characters, has them interact in interesting ways, and it just gives fun adventures with characters people like. Was it the best comic ever? No, I had a few complaints. It was too slow, for one. And the very idea of making selling each chapter individually is stupid, when really each one sucks on its own and they only work as a single story. That ties into both writing and distribution. But these problems are near-universal for modern American comics. This particular one, though not my personal favorite, sidesteps most of the other problems with the modern industry. The current Sonic comics in general are some of the better ones being published these days. But they are ironically too slow, and since the head writer was promoted to writing the games, and the backup writer was promoted to head-writer of the comics (the game writer is now basically secondary writer of the comics), she has been doing way too much slice of life bullshit, and way too many original characters do not steal. The last arc got rid of most of them, but the current arc added a new one, that is awkwardly referred to as "they," as Stanley (the writer) trying to force some tranny bullshit into a comic for 10 year olds. But the way she got it that past Sega was by making the character have multiple personality disorder. But it doesn't even make sense still because the bit is that the parents aren't supposed to accept the character's wish to not be an acrobat (yes, that is the metaphor for being a tranny), but they still call him "they" even though the point is that they're not supposed to be accepting. And Sonic even does it, even though this is literally a mental health problem and the whole thing he is trying to help the character get over. It would be like if he told Chaos and Shadow that they should be angry and want to destroy the world. Anyway this was seemingly just a short filler arc, and hopefully is never referenced again after the next issue. In January a new arc starts where they finally catch up to the events of Sonic Frontiers, and are seemingly doing sequel stories to it, so hopefully things improve them. Also, though I bitch about continuity being too important, I also don't want it broken. I want it followed, but not focused on so much it becomes hard for new readers to understand. This was clearly never meant to be in proper DC continuity, but there are a few little things that any fan of the properties involved would have recognized. Like Tomar-Re and Kyle Rayner are both as being active Green Lanterns. Tomar-Re died years before Kyle Rayner ever became a Green Lantern. They could have easily just said it was Tomar-Tu, Tomar-Re's replacement, as his name implies. I really hope someone got fired for that blunder. >>2006189 >>2006195 This character is actually referenced in the crossover. Flash mistakes Sonic for him for a moment. Which doesn't make perfect sense since it's Barry Allen Flash, not Wally West Flash, who knew this character. Also when Sonic and Flash fight The Reverse Flash, it's Hunter Zolomon, Wally's Reverse Flash, not Eobard Thawne, Barry's Reverse Flash. Yeah, it's possible for Barry to fight him, but it's not like they go into it. It's a throwaway bit where they fight a Flash villain. At least make it the right one. And yes, those two characters look almost exactly the same except for minute details almost nobody would even notice. But if you're getting paid, then do your research and draw the right character. >>2006197 Not only did they buy it, but it's now a well loved classic. Grant Morrison and Mark Millar, who you see credited on the cover, are two of the most successful and influential creators comics history.

>>2006172 >Last capeshit comics I read physically were Startling Stories: Banner and Elektra (2001), skimmed some Marvel Civil War and just wanted to wipe my ass with the pages. Then you don't know nothing; pray you stay ignorant. >My point still stands Nah, your point fails because it was propped up by the idea that things like collabs were what destroyed comics and not the fact the big two replaced all their talent with cheap fanfiction writers with little interest in anything but food, activism, and gay relationships, with people who barely know how to draw doing the art.

>>2006203 >>2006204 I never stated that SJW cancer infesting the hobby (which to be fair, was a hobby already filled with subversive numale queers) wasn't the core issue. Just that crossovers like this that aren't a single issue for fun are fucking retarded and just add more lore/canon fuckery to the mix. I shall continue to read Asterix

>>2006212 This is five issues, but it's clearly not in normal DC canon, so if you're a DC fan you can ignore it. It's made by the people who normally do Sonic, so maybe it would be canon to that, but I strongly doubt it will ever be referenced again. I agree that making it five issues is silly, the whole monthly model is outdated. But I'm sure by now they've published the regular collected edition, and that book would be pretty good. You don't need to know lore and canon beyond the basic backstories of the main characters. Since being a crossover between Sonic and Justice League is the point, it's assumed you know Shadow and Batman's backstories, and that Knuckles and Superman are both the last of their kind. That's pretty much all you need to know. And if they didn't reference that stuff, it would be boring and lame. Pointing out the similarities and using them to further character relationships is the fun part. As for SJWs, they definitely were a problem for decades, but they got worse and worse, and in 2015 went full mask off. Not only did they stop even trying to actually tell good stories which also pushed their propaganda, but they started blacklisting everyone who wasn't a pod-person out of the industry.

>>2006219 >You don't need to know lore and canon beyond the basic backstories of the main characters. How would I know that outside of reading it in the first place? Plus many crossovers add lore bullshit to it. See what I mean? It's all garbage with no consequence, writes can just pull shit out of their ass out of convenience with no regards for any kind of in universe laws, it's terrible. >and in 2015 went full mask off Because of the MCU, it meant they could keep afloat without any regards for a quality product, so they just hired their friends or whoever fit the DEI criteria for more funding from investment companies. SJW faggotry is just half the shit cake though, the USA has had a capeshit problem for fucking decades.

>>2006257 >How would I know that outside of reading it in the first place? I can understand why you'd think it's a problem, given DC and Marvel do huge multiversal crossovers all the time, all meant to be a culmination of each individual series' story, while also changing everything forever for the future (though they rarely actually do either of these things). But intercompany crossovers are different. By their nature, they're more standalone, because neither company can assume that they will even be allowed to reference the events ever again. Even when Sonic met Mega Man, with both series published by Archie Comics, since the actual characters were owned by Sega and Capcom, respectively, the events were only lightly referenced in future issues of either series (oddly enough, even when they crossed over a second time). >It's all garbage with no consequence Do you want consequence or not? You said you don't want "lore/canon fuckery," but that's basically just another word for consequence. Does it do anything that makes it so you need to know it for future stories? That's lore/canon fuckery. Unless you mean things like DC Crisis events, where history gets changed, but those are rare. Also, if you actually read the stories, they don't really make things confusing, and what you're supposed to do is just keep reading like normal. They make things confusing if you don't actually read comics, though, because having the stories explained to you after makes them sound retarded (which they are. I love explaining them and highlighting how retarded they are). But usually those events make it so the next issues after are easier to understand, not harder. Also, yes, the first Sonic/Mega Man crossover was a crisis event that changed history. It erased things like Geoffrey St. John, a character Ken Penders created with the sole purpose of cucking Sonic the Hedgehog. That alone makes it the best and most justified Crisis event ever. >writes can just pull shit out of their ass out of convenience with no regards for any kind of in universe laws, it's terrible. I don't know about that. Most of the ones I've read have the problem of tying in too hard with too many in-universe laws, making them incomprehensible to casuals. Even with this Justice League/Sonic crossover, I complain that they said Tomar-Re instead of Tomar-Tu, and they drew Zoom when they clearly should have drawn Professor Zoom (who are both Reverse Flashes but totally different characters), but I'd hardly say those are cases of writers just pulling shit out of their asses with no regards for in-universe laws. More research could have been done, but it's not terribly egregious. >SJW faggotry is just half the shit cake though, the USA has had a capeshit problem for fucking decades. Yeah but I like a lot of them so I can overlook the ones I don't. Until the ratio got too bad. Then I had to give up.

>>2006282 >But intercompany crossovers are different. By their nature, they're more standalone But again, you're just assuming >Do you want consequence or not? I do anon, comprehensible consequences in a single story that doesn't need sidestory/backstory exposition every page. But capeshit doesn't work like that, Batman which is for the most part, pretty grounded, will somehow be resurrected by the Justice League of spacefaring aliens and magical creatures because some cunt feels like it. Which is why the the fucking animated series were so good and why some of the past movies were good, they gave 0 fucks about comic continuity which is about as convoluted as a 5 year olds imagination and makes 40K lore blush. I just think it's fucking retarded nonsensical bullshit with added complexity due to the fucking things being cashcows with little no no in universe rules. At least the 80s/90s added some edge to it and tried to dial back on that trash but after that phase it only got worse. Just the fact that we're seeing these walls of text is telling, it's useless over complex autistic shit with no long term consequences for any of the characters. >Poof Dimension 230139183819XXYUZ Superman isn't dead this is a completely new thing <10 issues later with decreasing sales later >Holy shit 30139183819XXYUZ Superman just met 6897908805OPGHEYNEGER Superman that we thought was dead to fight the evil spaceman from another dimension Fuck that shit

>>2006212 >Just that crossovers like this that aren't a single issue for fun are fucking retarded and just add more lore/canon fuckery to the mix I can understand that but by the time period where you left off was already had both of them with pretty fucked multiverses, even without involving Army of Darkness, Predator, Alien, Sonic, each other, etc. At this point Disney and whoever ends up with Warner will be better off outsourcing it to Shonen Jump if they can't get any old blood to return, with a completely rebooted universe.

>>2006302 >But again, you're just assuming Yeah, casuals might not know as much. Fair enough. But I'd still rather have crossovers, I'd just rather they not all be ones that are absolutely baffling to said casuals. Ones that are just fun standalone things are precisely what most crossovers should be. You could take this Sonic/Justice League crossover, or the first Sonic/Mega Man crossover, and hand it to someone who never read any comics at all before, and as long as they have basic familiarity with the characters, they'll understand it. That's what most crossovers, especially intercompany crossovers, should be. And most intercompany crossovers are more like that, even if only because business necessitates it. >I do anon, comprehensible consequences in a single story that doesn't need sidestory/backstory exposition every page. Then you might like these Sonic crossovers. If you like the basic franchises involved, that is. >Batman which is for the most part, pretty grounded, will somehow be resurrected by the Justice League of spacefaring aliens and magical creatures because some cunt feels like it. Batman can be a lot of things, with a lot of different tones. I think that's one of the things that makes him such a good character. You can have Adam West and Christian Bale and they're both good. But I like when a lot of different series can tell stories with very different tones. Really most American superhero comics end up like this, just by nature of being long running. They change with the times, and often I end up liking many different styles from different eras. The same thing happened with Sonic. Yeah, I like some of the lighthearted stuff (though the original games weren't as lighthearted as localizers tried to make them), but also Shadow the Hedgehog is awesome, and I'm tired of pretending it's not. >Which is why the the fucking animated series were so good and why some of the past movies were good, they gave 0 fucks about comic continuity which is about as convoluted as a 5 year olds imagination and makes 40K lore blush. The best superhero cartoons are the DC Animated Universe, partially because they were able to adapt more of that continuity and get more convoluted. That's not the only reason it's good (excellent animation in Batman: The Animated Series, and sometimes having better writing than the comics, like with Mr. Freeze), but being able to build character relationships over longer periods of time, with more crossovers and continuity, does add depth. The fact that Justice League could do arcs that were sequels and prequels to things that happened in Superman: The Animated Series and Batman Beyond was cool. >I just think it's fucking retarded nonsensical bullshit with added complexity due to the fucking things being cashcows with little no no in universe rules. The complexity is precisely because they are usually dedicated to making sense and following the rules, so much so that you are expected to know tons of rules so that you can understand why it makes sense. That's part of the problem. When they do just blatantly break the rules, as some modern SJW writers do, there is some autist waiting in the background to retcon a way for it to actually make sense. >Just the fact that we're seeing these walls of text is telling, it's useless over complex autistic shit with no long term consequences for any of the characters. I gloss over the things with no consequences. There's no point mentioning them, most of the time. There are long term consequences here and there. That's why Batman's on his fourth Robin. >alt-universe Superman I'll have you know there are really only three or four important alt-universe Supermans who are called such, in main continuity, at least. Really it's just Superman of Earth-Two (the original from 1940s comics) and Superman (the main one from all the in-continuity comics since). Every once in a while there's a storyline with a new alternate universe or timeline, but those are isolated stories and not long-term characters. Also there's Ultraman, who is technically an alt-universe Superman, and there are like four different versions of him, but he has a different name so it's hard to get him confused with regular Superman. The thing about the multiverse that modern movies get wrong is that true fans realize two versions of the same guy from different universes are actually totally different guys. You can't replace Superman with Superman from Earth-Two because he's a totally different person with a different history, and the fans won't see him as the same person. The idea of replacing someone with their alt-universe doppelganger is ridiculous, and if anything should only ever be used as a horror motif, or a supervillain plot. You know what really bugged me? In Deadpool and Wolverine, main timeline Wolverine is dead, so Deadpool goes to get one from a different continuity, and he gets a new one we haven't seen before, and we're just supposed to act like he's the Wolverine we know. But he's not. I don't care about this guy. He's not the Wolverine I followed through like ten movies. He's a new person who just looks the same. And the worst part? There was already a moment when Wolverine went back in time and changed the future, in Days of Future Past. They could have just said that that resulted in a split timeline, and Deadpool could have gotten the version of Wolverine from the bad future, which would have even worked with the backstory they gave the new Wolverine, where the X-Men died. Making a new universe just to introduce one new character, who is meant to functionally be the same as an old character, is just about the worst way to use the concept, especially when there was already an old character that could have been used. >>2006321 >completely rebooted universe That would make things worse, not better. They already publish many comics that aren't set in the main universe, that are easy to understand. Nobody reads those either. The history is the reason the few people who do still read comics like them at all. Get rid of it and they'll have no reason to keep reading. They don't like Batman because of his name and costume, they like him because of his history and relationships. That said, manga publishers at least seem to know how to distribute comics properly, so that would be a significant improvement.

>>2006363 >Batman can be a lot of things, with a lot of different tones. I think that's one of the things that makes him such a good character Nigger that's literally every capeshit character, they're not even characters, just a cool backstory at this point. > fact that Justice League could do arcs that were sequels and prequels to things that happened in Superman: The Animated Series and Batman Beyond was cool. But again, it had a clear cut timeline with no side story bullshit. At most a reference, you were still watching the same show with the same tone made by many of the same people pandering to the fans who likely watched the previous 2 shows and had a set of rules, a set of standards and a clear defined fanbase, which the comics don't have! >The complexity is precisely because they are usually dedicated to making sense No it's not! It's used to justify lore raping ass pulls and retcons, nothing else. And if it's that complex why even make it or reference it? Make smaller issues with isolated continuities and none of this would happen, but no, got to keep THIS PARTICULAR VERSION OF THE CHARACTER alive so it prints money for the retarded monster mash issues with 300 other capeshit heroes. The issue with SJWs is that they still do that while breaking whatever little consistency there is while adding their dose of political garbage into it. >I'll have you know there are really only three or four important alt-universe Supermans I don't care and just knowing that makes me care even less, and that's the crux of the issue because I'm not alone in that and the people thinking like me are not a minority. I fucking find Skibidi Toilet lore more interesting and endearing than capeshit, so you know it's bad.

>>2006404 >Nigger that's literally every capeshit character, they're not even characters, just a cool backstory at this point. Well you have a point. "Batman" can refer to many different characters who just happen to have a similar costume and backstory. But the main universe Batman is a character. DCAU Batman is a character. Earth-Two Batman is a character. They're different characters from each other, but with similar backstories. But main universe Batman, who is a singular character, still has different eras with different tones, and different adventures with different tones, and I think that makes it fun. It's explained in universe as different trends and eras of history and the character's life. Things were lighter for a while when Dick (the original Robin) was still a young kid, because he influenced Bruce to have a lighter mentality. Then Dick grew up and became a moody teenager, influencing Bruce to again get more moody. That's just one example, of course, and we could keep going. >But again, it had a clear cut timeline with no side story bullshit. At one point, Justice League, Static Shock, and The Zeta Project were all airing at the same time, part of the same universe. And actually there was a web-series called Gotham Girls, and another about Lobo, also on at the same time. All canon. And a solo Batman movie that came out in that era. I wouldn't say these shows at all have the same tone. Static Shock is clearly aimed at a younger audience than Justice League, yet they cross over multiple times. The Zeta Project is aimed at a younger audience than Static, yet crosses over with Batman Beyond (which it spun-off from) which seems to be aimed at a slightly older audience again. Organizing the proper timeline of the DC Animated Universe is a total clusterfuck, and I think I'm the only one whose ever done it. There's even an arc that goes between Static and Justice League that I'm pretty sure nobody's ever noticed because it was aired out of order, but it exists, I swear. Richie is missing from the Justice League part of the crossover because he was out of commission between the two episodes of Static, and people don't realize that Justice League episode goes between them, but it totally does. >No it's not! It's used to justify lore raping ass pulls and retcons, nothing else. Retcons aren't inherently bad. It just means "retroactive continuity." It's when a story reveals things that happened in the past that you didn't know about before. That's a perfectly valid storytelling technique. Can it be done wrong? Of course. But it can be done well. And yes, it's been done sometimes because someone screwed up, so then later someone else had to come along and retcon in an explanation for something that didn't make sense at first. A famous example is how in an early Justice League story, someone mentions Adam Strange, who they shouldn't know about because he lives on another planet. Nerds wrote in complaining that it made no sense, so the writer did a story, set before that previous issue, where The Justice League went to Planet Rann and teamed up with Adam Strange. A mistake originally, but led to a perfectly fine story. Or there are just regular retcons not done to fix mistakes. Batman was introduced in Detective Comics #27. His backstory wasn't given until Detective Comics #33. That's a retcon. People like Batman's backstory. I don't like it less just because it wasn't told before his first adventure. >And if it's that complex why even make it or reference it? It becomes that complex due to time simply adding more and more stories on top of each other. It's referenced because the writers are themselves ascended fans who understand it, so they can appreciate the depth given by referencing things that happened decades ago (and decades apart) and adding them together to explore new implications. The problem is if you're a casual who doesn't understand, or if you're a business who actually wants new people to be able to understand what the fuck you're publishing. >got to keep THIS PARTICULAR VERSION OF THE CHARACTER alive so it prints money for the retarded monster mash issues with 300 other capeshit heroes. Yeah, because if it's not that version of the character, then it's a different character. If you erase Batman's history, then he's a different person. This is why comics fans don't tend to buy those comics that aren't in continuity. They're about characters they haven't already grown attached to, who don't have the depth of history. They're adaptations. Some adaptations are great, even better than the source, but not all. You have to earn the affection from scratch. Batman: The Animated Series was a great adaptation. Whatever one they're airing now isn't. I haven't seen it, never even heard of it, but I bet it exists and I bet it sucks. Also, many elements fans like are so reliant on history that adapting them at all is difficult. Has there ever been a TV show that actually had all four Robins adapted well? I don't know of one. Because just having to explain who they all are, and how they're all actually different people that you should like for different reasons, would take forever. You'd need to do a very long adaptation. Batman: The Animated Series got to do two Robins, and that's the best adaptation we have. If you reboot things, you're losing Robins, and people want to see all the Robins. They like Nightwing and Red Hood and Tim Drake and Damian Wayne. They also like Jay Garrick and Barry Allen and Wally West and Bart Allen. They like the relationships between the different teams that all exist because they're from different eras and generations, and if you reboot, you lose that. Also, sometimes they do reboot characters, and sometimes that's fine, but sometimes it's not. They didn't fully reboot Superman in 2011, but they erased major parts of his history, like his marriage, and people got mad, because it erased a great deal of depth from his character, so they brought that history back in 2016. Of course the more famous example of erasing a marriage was with Spider-Man, and people got even more mad, and that never got fixed. From the same era, they rebooted Wally West, the third Flash. Yeah, there was some new version of Wally running around, but without the 50 years of history, what's the point? He's not the same person. He's just someone with the name and the suit. So they had to bring back the original Wally, and that was the right decision. They rebooted Supergirl and Superboy at the same time, too. Nobody seemed to care because I guess they aren't major enough characters and Supergirl was already rebooted in like 2006, so I guess the lesson is that you can reboot characters that are minor enough, but I'd rather they didn't, even though I thought the 2011 version of Supergirl's origin and early adventures was actually very well done. Now we get to see James Gunn's new version of Supergirl in the movies. From the cameo in the new Superman movie, it's already shit. I'd rather have the original, or any of the previous versions. Rebooting that one didn't make it better. >I don't care and just knowing that makes me care even less, and that's the crux of the issue because I'm not alone in that and the people thinking like me are not a minority. The point I was getting at is the adaptations haven't done it correctly in recent years. They've treated the alt-universe versions of characters as interchangable when they're not. The whole point is that they're different people. Superman and Superman of Earth-Two are different guys, and when Superman-Two shows up it means a lot because the point is that he is the pure original hero. There's meaning behind it. Meanwhile modern movies and shows just have a character die and then have another guy who looks like him pop over from another universe and they act like he's the same guy as before. It completely defeats the point. When Superman-Two died, there was no replacing him. Even when they made a new Earth 2 with a new Superman, it wasn't the same universe or the same guy. That Superman didn't have the same meaning and thus wasn't used in the same types of stories. Each of these characters means something, and the modern adaptations are too soulless to get that. If you like the cartoons, surely you've seen Crisis on Two Earths. If you haven't, you should. It's good. Or the Justice Lords episodes of Justice League. Those are the multiverse done right. So is the episode with the Justice Guild. These are all just adapting Earth-Three and Earth-Two crossover stories, and they're good. But they had to simplify them immensely to make them make sense in these adaptations. They're good adaptations, but the originals are still better, especially with the Earth-Two stories, where the heroes meet their own childhood heroes. The fact that the originals actually had real history, and could continue to meet and build new history, added a lot. Right up until they made Alan Scott gay. When I remember that I want them to not continue anything, or reboot anything, I just want them to go fully out of business. But of course even once they do, many of these characters, including Superman and Alan Scott, will be public domain in a few years. Then we can make our own. But it still won't mean as much, because we won't be allowed to reference all the adventures they had together up to the modern day, and just ignore the one where they had Alan explain to his kids that he loves butt stuff. We'll only be allowed to reference the earliest stories, before many of the most beloved elements, and much of the depth of the characters, were invented. >I fucking find Skibidi Toilet lore more interesting and endearing than capeshit, so you know it's bad. Not an insult. I'm sure Skibidi Toilet lore is awesome. I haven't had time to get into it myself yet, but I bet if I did it would be great.

>>2006460 I'm not reading all of that, sorry anon Capeshit isn't worth that much, and neither is it worth your unnatural obsession with it. Cheers!

Protip: don't close the quick reply box after clicking reply, it deletes all the text you were gonna post, and now I have to retype this whole thing before I forget everything again god damnit. >>2006460 >But the main universe Batman is a character. And at what point is he allowed to retire, let his story end, have no more wild events in his life occur? The original Batman was going on crime fighting adventures before WW2 started, even by comic book time he should be approaching senior citizenship. This is where a large part of capeshit fatigue comes from, characters aren't allowed to fade out and let new things fill the void they leave behind, so we've been beaten over the head with the same few names from the big two for decades. People like us are the exception, for every nerd who can "get" the full history, there's at least forty going "I don't really care about the full 80 year lore, I just wanted to see two buff dudes punch each other with a compelling narrative for two hours" Could be Spidey, could be Ryu from the Streets, could be this ugly son of a bitch >>2006404 for all they care. Granted I know there have been a few attempts at "replacements" that have failed for stupidity induced reasons (*cough* Marvel late 2010s), but thanks to corpo retardation, new thing failing means must do old thing forever and ever "DIG UP THE OLD POPULAR IPs, WE NEED ANOTHER BLOCKBUSTER 80s NOSTALGIA BAIT FILM!" It's all so tiresome. >Has there ever been a TV show that actually had all four Robins adapted well? I don't think a show has ever had three Robins let alone four (DCAU is just Dick and Tim IIRC), but didn't Damian only got created within the past ten or fifteen years or something? Since this is the FIGHTAN GAME thread, my first exposure to him was Injustice 1, terrible first impression from what I've seen since. Maybe some mega crossover game has done it, only other DC games I know well enough are the Arkham games, only three Robins there too. >Because just having to explain who they all are, and how they're all actually different people that you should like for different reasons, would take forever. Skill Issue. Yes this is a very rapid fire introduction with no significant substance or backstory, but the most important details and characteristics are upfront before the story really kicks off where Bats beats alternates of his four adopted pseudo children. >Even when they made a new Earth 2 >Earth 2 Version 2 We've had this discussion before, but shit like this is also why comics have problems just fyi. And the worst part is I still feel like I forgot something from my first response

Knew it. >people want to see all the Robins Hardcore fans want to see all the Robins, how often are brand new series designed with fans who even know there's four Robins in mind? A lot of people making adaptations have to assume their work is going to be the onboarding point for new viewers who'll treat it as their first exposure to a particular story/world. They can handle Batman, Alfred, Gordon, a Robin, maybe Batgirl, but to toss the names of over a dozen characters you're supposed to give a shit about in the intro to a new work is a sure way to lose people. With showmakers seeking return on investment, they can't afford that initial wall being there. The alternative is to drip feed those characters in over time, time a show might not have or might not want to waste without good reason, and has its own issues of bad potential execution. If the entertainment industry as a whole can go back to "by nerds for nerds" without all the bullshit of bureaucracy, politics, economics, and the culture war, maybe your wish can come true. And in that timeline I'd get a Playstation All Stars 2 that doesn't suck ass. Yes, your comment from a month ago critically injured me.

>>2006610 >Hardcore fans Redditor numales.

>>2006509 >unnatural obsession Where do you think we are? We're only here because we have unnatural obsessions with various video games. This is just one of many other unnatural obsessions I have. And those are the ones that lead to the best conversations. It's like when /v/ discusses porn and suddenly everyone becomes extremely literate and articulate. >>2006576 That happened for the original Batman back in 1979, in Adventure Comics #462. The current Batman is technically the second one. The one who died in 1979 is the one who starred in the earliest comics up until the mid-'50s, and the current one is the one who has starred in all the comics since then, who has a very similar history to the original one, but with some differences. This was done to account for how Batman could have been on both the Justice Society and the Justice League even though they're in different universes. There must be different Batmans, and the series must have changed which one it was focusing on at some point before the first time he teamed up with Superman (there's a story about this in the '50s), because he was already said to have teamed up with Superman in the Justice Society in the '40s (even though they only say it happened, but never actually do a story with them together). So for all intents and purposes, pretty much all the old comics are canon to this day, so the main Batman's universe is called Earth-One, but if you want to be technical, the original Batman from the original comics is a different guy from Earth-Two, and his life is a bit different, like he was on the Justice Society instead of the Justice League. And once they decided this, they figured they could set the point when the stories started being about Earth-One at a point that would make their lives more different. So there are periods in old comics when Catwoman and Two-Face were reformed, for example, but later they relapsed. Well the relapse was an Earth-One story only, so Earth-Two Batman is friends with Harvey Dent and married Selena Kyle. By the time they decided to say Earth-Two Batman was a separate character, it was like 20 years after the last story that was officially about him, and they were after showing the Earth-Two characters aging in real time during the period when there were no stories about them, so it was now the '70s and Bruce Wayne was older, and his life went in a different direction than the other one. He got married to Catwoman and they had a daughter, Helena Wayne. He retired from being Batman and become police commissioner. Robin grew up but never changed his name to Nightwing or Batman, he was just grown up Robin. Catwoman got blackmailed into one last heist and got killed. Helena, motivated by the death, became Robin's sidekick, Huntress. Then Bruce got roped into one last case and killed, and a few years later both Robin and Huntress died fighting the Anti-Monitor. There are later characters called Huntress, from other universes (and a later character called Helena Wayne), but they're different characters. Also I think this version of Batman did appear as a ghost once or twice, but I don't think that means his story didn't end in 1979. So my point is you could read all the adventures of the original Batman. Those would be all his appearances up to May, 1952, which is the first appearance of Earth-One Batman, in Superman #76. So the issues you'd want are Detective Comics #27-183, Batman #1-70, and World's Finest #1-58. Oh and World's Fair Comics #1-2, which was essentially World's Finest but only published once a year at the World's Fair. Also he gets mentioned in Justice Society stories as an honorary member, but I don't think he actually appears. The Batman you're following then doesn't appear again for like 20 years, but eventually shows up again as an old man in 1970, and he dies in 1979. All the post '50s appearances are not starring in long running series, they're particular spotlight stories about him in anthology series, or times he appears in Justice Society stories. Also there are stories from the '70s and (first half of the) '80s set in the past when he was still young. If you want you can ignore them all, especially the ones published after his death. But post-1986 nobody remembers him so there are no more stories about him, not even set in the past, except for two where he appeared as a ghost. But you can read them all if you want. His story is over, and even if his ghost ever reappears, I don't think that's enough to say his story isn't over. I don't think it ruins everything. >The original Batman was going on crime fighting adventures before WW2 started, even by comic book time he should be approaching senior citizenship. The original Batman was old by the '70s and died in 1979. As for the main Batman, yeah, comic book time is a factor, but also the World War II stories don't apply to him, specifically so that they can not have his early adventures set in any particular time period. In 1986, with Man of Steel, they established that it had been 10 years in-universe since Superman's (the first superhero's) first appearance. Batman (the second superhero) appeared very shortly after. I think I could accept that the first 50 years of stories took place in 10 years, and Superman and Batman were both in their early '30s. In 2011, after Flashpoint changed history, they said it had only been six years since Superman's first appearance. They tried to say that you just had to figure all the main stories just happened really closely together now. But that was bullshit, because that meant Batman was going through like one Robin a year. Eventually they said Doctor Manhattan stole time from history or some bullshit, and that's why it literally didn't make any sense, and then they got the time back, and now it was like 16 years since Superman's first appearance. This does imply that everything from 1986-2016 happened in just five years, but since the style of comic book storytelling got much slower, meaning instead of one (or more) story a month, you got one story every six months, and often it led directly into the next story, I can accept that less time passed. Except there is canonically one year when Batman (and Robin and Superman and Wonder Woman) took a break, after Infinite Crisis, so every Batman story is only in 15 years. But okay. That's sort of doable. It does mean the DC Universe is a horrible hellscape where the universe itself gets threatened (which usually means Earth getting conquered by evil gods or aliens) about once a year in the last five years, but okay. Also Batman has bathed in Lazarus Pits which keep him biologically younger than he is. And he's rich and friends with aliens and wizards and gods, and can afford all the best medical treatment in the universe. So chronologically he's like 40, and in-universe has been doing this for almost 20 years, but he's the fittest 40 year old ever. >let new things fill the void they leave behind I see that as a market issue. The market wants more Batman. If they didn't he'd fade out and new stuff would take his place. It happened to many other characters, but not the most popular one. If you want superheroes who die and stay dead, read the more obscure ones. If you're less popular than Hawkman, you're allowed to die and stay dead. And Hawkman's a special case since coming back to life is his superpower. The related issue is that the creators aren't good at making new characters anymore, and haven't been for a long time. Who is the last American superhero character people actually like? Maybe Jon Kent? He's from like 10 years ago, and they ruined him very quickly. And before him, maybe Damian Wayne, who I guess is still around and liked, but he's from 20 years ago. And these aren't even main characters, they're sidekicks, new versions of old sidekicks. Old comic creators are too autistic and just like playing with the old characters, and the new ones they make usually aren't that great. The '90s had Deadpool and Harley Quinn, but Deadpool is a parody of Deathstroke and Harley is just girl Joker. I think the last really original character people actually like is Spawn, and he's from the early '90s. And despite people liking that character and him being very iconic, they've failed to produce anything good with him, including comics, since Soul Calibur II. >People like us are the exception, for every nerd who can "get" the full history, there's at least forty going "I don't really care about the full 80 year lore, I just wanted to see two buff dudes punch each other with a compelling narrative for two hours" Yes, but some of those stories of two buff dudes punching each other are more effective and successful than others. Some bomb. So yes, you need a good concept, but I do think the story and characters matter. I do think the most successful adaptations are usually the ones that get the characters right and focus on them with more depth than others. The MCU was partially successful because people liked seeing the characters play off each other in ways that couldn't be done without the shared universe. You already knew Captain America and Iron Man, now you got to see them interact, and their characters, and their relationship, builds over sequels, both solo and team. Even the solo movies that are the most classic and successful are the ones that get the characters right. Raimi's Spider-Man successfully condenses about ten years of comics into two hours, then focuses on the core relationships, so people like how the main characters in that movie play off each other, and it is pretty much the relationships from the comics adapted accurately (except they change Gwen's name and hair color, but whatever). Obviously these are action stories, but story and character obviously matters to their success. >didn't Damian only got created within the past ten or fifteen years or something? He's pretty much from 2005. Technically the story where he is conceived (Son of the Demon) is from 1987, so later in Kingdom Come, set in a possible future (later canonically made an alternate timeline), he appears as an adult. But he didn't show up in main continuity and become Robin until like 2005. And yeah, he was well liked enough to make it into Injustice and other adaptations. And yes, I agree that Injustice fucking sucks. I'd overlook the stupid story if it played well, but it has the stiffest controls outside of turn based games. >pic That pic still assumes you know an awful lot, you have to accept that Batman just keeps getting new kids and calling them Robin, which is fucked up when you're just told it with no context. And even then, that amount of info given on that page isn't enough to make you give a fuck about the characters. Yeah, you can accept the plot, but you won't care. Technically Earth 2 isn't Earth-Two Version 2, but it is sort of Earth-2 Version 2, and Earth-2 was Earth-Two version 2. But yes, it's stupid. Earth 2 sucked and got destroyed. Good. I assume there's a new Earth 2 now, or it came back somehow. But it's not as important as Earth-Two. That's the good one.

>>2006610 Your points are actually furthering my points. The people in the know know all four Robins are pretty cool characters, but they'll never be adapted correctly if you keep rebooting the adaptations. And you won't even get to see them in the comics anymore if they fully reboot the comics. The added time allowed for more neat characters, and reboots prevent that. People talk about these series retreading the same ground over and over, but reboots make it worse. Do we need yet another new Spider-Man in the movies? Another Superman or Batman origin? No. Reboots are essentially done so you can re-do stories. Otherwise, just continue from where you left off, and if you don't want to reference an old story, then don't. But if you want to, you can. A reboot doesn't add new options except for retelling old stuff. It does take away the option to build upon old stuff. >PS All-Stars 2 What do you want to bet Spyro wasn't in it because Activision was in the middle of making that Skylanders money? If he was in, he would have looked like that disgusting burn victim from those games. >>2007279 >implying Redditors actually play vidya or read comics, rather than just watching streamers and reading wiki pages.

>>2007912 Videogames are worth the autism, capeshit is not

>>2007946 How about this video game? I like this one.

>>2007960 It's ok but pales in comparison to this one, I liked the playing as Venom and creating chaos, but otherwise it's mediocre. The cel shading and the bad animations just kill it for me personally.

>>2007970 *the gimmick of playing as Venom

>>2007970 I was gonna post Spider-Man 2, but I chose Ultimate because I think the graphics are way better. The cel shading looks great. Spider-Man 2 has pretty mediocre graphics, by standards of the time. Pic related is the actual best capeshit video game, though.

>>2007981 I'm just glad we're back on topic Wonder if we'll see any Virtua Fighter news at Geoffs shitfest.

>>2008268 Nope. Sorry gamer.

Do any fighting games from the last 10-15 years have good single player content? It feels like everyone kind of gave up on interesting single player modes around 2010.

>>2019809 Tournifags are 100% to blame for it.

>>2019809 As much as I dislike how netherrealm designs their games, MK and Injustice are pretty much standouts when it comes to SP content. Robust stories, gameplay modes like dungeons, and tons of costumes make the games more than just platforms for grinding matches. Tekken has some good sp content iirc, but I haven't played the latest entry. >>2019864 Only in the case of SFV. Most fighting game releases were originally just arcade ports with a few extra modes, so they were just as barebones as they have been today (usually moreso). Its only been true from gen 6 and 7 (PS2/Xbox - PS360) that fighting games started to get more robust options since they weren't made for arcades first, but rather console first, and as such, would have to rely on what appealed to console players like alternative modes. As online has become easily accessible, it has returned to being focused back on the multiplayer content.

>>2019809 Yes, search and research more

>>2019895 PS1 and Dreamcast had some fighting games with good single player modes. Tekken 3 comes to mind, and Soul Calibur is a major one. Even Soul Blade had pretty good single player content. Then tourneyfags decided that it was all pointless, and they'd happily buy a game with much less content, so now we don't get it.

>>2020148 Nigger over here >>2019809 said Fightans from the last 10-15 year ago. Even if you say "MUH LE DREAMCAST", her last ACTUAL GOOD GAMES, and fighting games, are 20 years old, and even more if you can say; and thats even without saying the PS1 games, or even PS2 games, which are more tan 20 years old right now. 10-15 years ago, its, unironically, PS3/360 gen games

>>2020168 But the post I was replying to said >Its only been true from gen 6 and 7 (PS2/Xbox - PS360) that fighting games started to get more robust options since they weren't made for arcades first That's what I was replying to. 15 years ago is even after Soul Calibur IV, which was already practically devoid of single player content, in a franchise that used to focus on it heavily. 15 years ago is already in the latter half of the PS360 generation, and well after the PS2/Xbox.