>>1823416 People who spend more time focusing on pet theories over learning are more about the "Japanese learning community" than actually learning Japanese. See >>1117508

>>1823416 At the end of the day, if you stick with it, all roads lead to fluency or something close. The only difference is the efficiency of the methods.

>>1823416 >comprehensible input stupid crutch. you'll be more concerned with "making sure the input is comprehensible enough" than actually understanding and learning stuff. take something you like and read it if you need help to get the hang of shit like どうせ then you either ask someone or you look up examples and shit until it makes sense. 勉強方法にこだわるやつはどうせ日本語を習得する前にとっくに諦めるだろう

>>1826515 >reading before being a fluent listener major NGMI

>>1828295 Depends on how you want to use the thread. Do you want to shitpost in broken japanese? I'd say it's dead and you shouldn't bother. Do you just want to ask questions? Go ahead.

>>1828736 lol, wth did my post get deleted? Anyway, I'm not a beginner to this, been years now, took N4, now gonna take N3 by the end of the year just wanted to say how much trap of the suggested methods are, core2k specially is quite bad.

>>1833439 Whats wrong with the core2k? I did the kaishi 1.5k.

>>1823416 >not a single mention of comprehensible input A meme reddit way of saying "Just do more immersion". >not a single mention of cold character reading The fuck is this?

>>1833439 >been years now, took N4, now gonna take N3 >years >s I will assume your are a busy adult with only 2 hours of free time a day or less, because damn that's pretty fucking slow.

>>1834038 >I will assume your are a busy adult with only 2 hours of free time a day or less NTA but what else would you assume? Fitting in time for language learning is really fucking difficult if you're a responsible adult.

>>1834576 Even working adults have a surprising amount of free time if you don't use social media. And yes, 4chan is social media.

>>1834031 Nah because immersion in something you don't understand isn't helpful >The fuck is this? Google exists

>>1838412 >immersion in something you don't understand isn't helpful It is if you actually focus and let your brain do their pattern recognition thing. It is indeed slower than just doing grammar QRD drills, some anki vocab and jumping into something with a dictionary on hand, but it does work.

>>1839004 >let your brain do their pattern recognition thing. Your brain can't just figure out the definitions to new words and phrases.

>>1839004 Your brain can't pattern recognition things it has no idea the meaning of. You don't need to know every word or even close to most to have comprehensible input, but you do need to understand what is going on in your content and how the speech relates to it for acquisition. immersing in something you have no idea about isn't helpful. >cold character reading I'm unsatisfied with the "just google it" answer. It's essentially waiting until you understand Japanese speech enough to listen and read along to a transcript of the audio. gives you great inner voice pronunciation and makes kanji understanding much easier than anki or other roate memorization techniques. hitting a kanji drill book after doing enough of this helps too if you want to physically write

>>1823416 >>1826951 >>1838412 >>1840539 Are you from 4/v/? Because running in and yelling at everybody for not using your methods is not how this thread has ever worked. Post your progress or ask for resources, don't be a faggot.

>>1838412 >immersion in something you don't understand isn't helpful you don't need to understand every single word. just looking at an article you can pick up some phrases. the main obstacle is always words with low semantic transparency >皆さんがご存じのように (as everyone knows) >ご存じのことと存じますが/ご存じかと存じますが/既にお聞き及びのことと存じますが (as you may well be aware) >○○をご紹介していきたいと思います (I'd like to present/introduce you to...) that's at the phrase level. languages are chock-full of those >>1839004 the main issue with just drilling grammar is that you don't learn to use it. you need to actually force yourself to use it >kanji drills fuck that. I just trace words with my finger 3 times (respecting proper stroke order, hooks, tapering strokes, whatever) and call it a day

>>1851849 Suit yourself and do another 50k anki reps and genki textbooks mongaloid. >>1888565 you don't need to KNOW every word but you do need to understand the meaning conveyed by the content's language

>>1278647 >becomes an LLM

>>1840539 >Your brain can't pattern recognition things it has no idea the meaning of. It absolutely can, it just will take way too much time to do so.

>>1889944 using context to understand is nice and all, but you also need to work on using the language. unless you're happy staying a half-literate mute.

>>1892987 >unless you're happy staying a half-literate mute. Unironically yes, as I have no intention of ever speaking with someone in Japanese, or even communicating with the Japanese people. >inb4 but what about when you will visit Japan? I have no interest in visiting other countries. If I am ever forced to visit it, then I will prepare myself enough to do the bare minimum of small talk.

>>1892987 most people in the west just want to consume/a/ & /jp/ shit besides your concern about being a half mute is concern trolling because being a fluent listener, reader or writer won't hinder your speaking skills or their development

>>1901519 >because being a fluent listener, reader or writer won't hinder your speaking skills or their development You can literally just read stuff out loud or ghosting while reading and get decent output accent/skills.

Hey guys, whats the best way to get used to all different grammar points? I mean not only memorize but, sharpen yourself so you can easily pick them up or use it during conversation.

>>1826951 >>1889944 Dude fuck off, all you're doing is bitching

>>1902266 >>1901519 you still need to use the language in real-time. I'm about to take the N2 and I perma-stammer and words come out wrong all the time (e.g. 捨てポイ instead of ポイ捨て. 末期試験 instead of 期末試験). but hey at least I can blurt out words like 膂力 and 聡明 randomly. that's gotta count for something right not to mention I can't compose a letter for shit (stupid seasonal greetings, weird keigo you've never heard of, completely different way of addressing people, etc.)

>>1903424 quiz yourself. do exercises. find memorable examples that will stay with you. e.g. >僕に勝てっこないさ->you won't (be able to) beat me (conjunctive form+っこない. in this case it's mixed with the potential form) このでかい機械は動かせそうにない->looks like we aren't gonna be able to get this humongous machine to run (alternatively, move) (～そうにない. with potential form in this case) >雪が崩れそう->the (piled up) snow is gonna collapse/close to collapsing/on the verge of collapsing (basically, the slightest disturbance could cause the snow to collapse) (conjunctive form+そう) 身長2センチぐらいさえ低ければこのワンピ着られたのに->if only I was a couple of centimeters shorter I'd be able (have been able) to wear this dress (さえ for wishes/if only. in this case it's showing regret) >神様でさえも過去にさかのぼることはできない->not even god can turn back time (lit. navigate upward against the flow of time) (さえ to mean "even". で used to avoid confusion (indicates that 神様 is used nominatively, i.e. it's the subject)) get used to that kind of shit. you start coming across the patterns so often they start getting engraved in your mind. lookups help of course. I still can't get N1 stuff down though (e.g. ～ったらない, ～かたわら, etc.)

>>1903438 >you still need to use the language in real-time. you're using it real time by listening the only way you'll get good at speaking is by being good at listening then actually talking until you're good at talking. still concern trolling to imply that being fluent at listening will somehow forbid you from speaking, the logic there is non existent

>>1903431 assblasted ankibro desperately trying to waste new learners' time is assblasted

Can someone recommend me a decently easy VN that isn't a dating sim or a eroge or melodrama? I just want something thats like a comedy. I guess it's fine if theres a bit of ecchi but I would prefer without.

>>1917957 I don't really know any comedy VNs, nor what "decently easy" means to you. I did try Hanahira, which seems to be a slice of life VN, and might be comedic, but it was too easy and boring for me so I dropped it. Utawarerumono, has some easy to understand sentences for the most part, at least the parts I played, and it does have some comedic elements, but it might not be comedic enough for you, or it might be too hard. There is also this list, maybe you can find something to your liking. My advice is to search for some japanese longplay of them first, to see if they are to your liking, before deciding to pirate/buy them.

>>1918913 Thanks for the rec and the chart. I'll check them out.

what do you do to get N1 grammar down. do you just read the n1 sou matome and the 文型辞典/DoJG and rawdog it or...?

https://ko-fi.com/post/All-Exercises-for-GenkiQuartet-Study-Resources-Wi-R6R81M8LLN did anyone save this?

>>1920772 I am somewhere between N3 and N2, so I don't know much about N1, but I can give you advice as an ESL with a Cambridge C2 Certificate, meaning I am about as good as you can get for a non-native. Going at least once or twice through a grammar book, to at least be familiar with the concepts will definitely help. Now it also depends on what your goal is, if it's simply watching anime, reading manga, and playing games, then you can just look up terms/grammar points whenever there is something you don't quite get, I mean it's what I do right now, so it will work. If your goal is to pass the N1, then I guess you should grind the books, until you can pass those mock tests. One small caveat about me and the english grammar. A lot of English I learned though immersion, as for whatever reason, the cartoons that were on TV were just in English, so I was doing immersion ever since I was born, plus videogames and much later Youtube, movies always had subtitles so they weren't good for immersion. At school I was very good at vocabulary, listening, essays, but shit at grammar. I was doing things "intuitively", but I was bad at it. Basic stuff like, "after did use verb in present tense, instead of past tense" was something the teachers had to spend years trying to correct me on, because I felt like it had to be the past form, it was what felt "right" to me. My father who thought I was good in English, because I could speak some words after years of watching TV, was horrified when I said stuff like "He go" or "She go", instead of "He goes" and "She goes", so he sent me to private lessons as well. What I am trying to say is that, it's possible to make wrong grammar connections, when just doing immersion. I basically grinded ground apparently "to grind" is an irregular verb, and I was unaware of it Grammarway 4 for years, before taking the Cambridge English Proficiency test.