Cuckchan thread is shit and this should've just been in the souls thread, so sageposting, but I will contribute. I think the biggest problem with solo invasions and why they don't feel as fun in ER and DS3 compared to past games is the rise in popularity of net-decking when it comes to builds and all that. Following clickbait youtubers or looking up "most efficient PVP invasion build" and just following that. Ends up making things very stale in the long run since all the invaders end up feeling the same or just rushing to the most OP bullshit and not experimenting. That practice makes PVE discussions more boring too and leads to people skipping a layer of engagement when it comes to buildcrafting in these kinds of games, such as in Remnant 2 where 90% of people you'd encounter would be running one of the same few clearly-guide-made builds, but this shit hurts the PVP side the most by removing a lot of variety and thus the invaders get stale fast. Look at the launch of DS:Remastered compared to the launch of the original when it comes to invaders and the experience from such and the difference was massive. Like, I've been doing an ER run with taunter's tongue on and 95% of the invaders were using the bloodhound's fang and the same min-maxxed armor set in the earlygame. It's just fucking tiresome. I was so happy when I finally fought a guy using a poison sword and board even if it was a deadlier build (since no poison cures that early unless you route for them) it was a much more fun fight. Or when I ran into a bleedmaxer using an uchi and a nagakiba once I got past Godrick. I remember back in DS2 where nearly every invader would be on some wacky bullshit and there was a lot of build and fashion variety, but now everyone has a stick up their ass about meta, twinking, netdecking, and minnmaxing. DS3 was bad about that shit too, and I despised it, but at least you'd occasionally see some cool shit.

>>1597102 I remember better times when a large part of /v/ talked shit on QTEs and sony movies, nowadays you refuse to observe reality for what it is.

>>1596212 > spin up a private server for DS1 and invite friends

>>1598241 Don't you guys have friends?

>>1598261 No________ __ _ ______________

>>1597328 >blaming the players for netdecking How about you blame FromSoft for rewarding guidefags at every step while trolling honest players with nonsense quests, lolrandom loot distribution, and so much more? And that's before getting into PvP specific issues, such as players being intended to manipulate matchmaking via level/upgrade brackets. >I remember back in DS2 where nearly every invader would be on some wacky bullshit and there was a lot of build and fashion variety GEE, I WONDER WHY DS2 HAD BETTER INCENTIVES FOR GOING OFF-META, WHAT THEY COULD HAVE POSSIBLY INCLUDED TO STOP REDDITORS FROM PUSHING THEIR BELOVED UNOFFICIAL LEVEL CAPS THAT JUST SO HAPPEN TO REWARD THEIR OWN MINMAXED BUILDS, IT PROBABLY STARTS WITH "S" AND ENDS IN "OUL MEMORY" >>1597383 >only play shit full of pandering >complain everything is shit and full of pandering >get mad when people tell you to stop playing shit full of pandering If you wanted recs for games released in the last 10 years that don't coddle your ego, you could have just asked, have a few I played recently: AI War Fleet Command (yes it was more than 10 years ago, no I don't care, fucking play it) Cryptark HOLE Recursed The Final Station Nuclear Option (actually passable PvP)

>>1598261 Why do you think I'm here?

>>1598241 >almost 20 years of PvP >no group of friends to play together This is why matchmaking is cancer: it teaches you that you don't need to look for someone to play with because a machine will do it instead, and when the machine stops working you're helpless.

>>1599456 One could also cease being a faggot misanthrope and look for an active community wherever it is

>>1599323 It's not just fromsoftware's fault, blaming them alone for the netdecking issue is dumb. Yeah these games can be cryptic but that's half the fun, figuring it out for yourself and experimenting. Most people nowadays don't have interest in doing that though, and that's a problem across a lot of games, not just souls. I think it has something to do with normalfaggots not wanting to fuck around as much and something related to crowd appeal but I can't be sure. Oddly enough I think you have a point with the soul memory thing, the only games that netdecking/lack of variety wasn't an issue in that I've played lately were Lords of the Fallen (2023) and Salt and Sacrifice. Both had basically nonexistent level matchmaking and scaled invaders up or down instead. They still had their "metas" mind you but just like the Demon Souls, DS1, and DS2 days you barely saw them and instead found a fair bit of variety. Salt and Sacrifice was greatly helped by its covenant system though, with several different types of invaders and co-op summons with varying goals, another comparison you can make to earlier vs later Dark Souls games with covenants being lamer in 3 and then gone in ER. Of course Remnant 2 serves as a counterexample to the matchmaking thing regarding netdecking, however, since there is literally no matchmaking there, just world scaling with host's numerical power level (derived from weapon upgrades and archetype level). Remant 2 is a strange fucking anomaly in that regard as a whole though, it's pure PVE so you think people would be willing to experiment more, but you barely see any experimentation and you see EVEN LESS of such at lower difficulties, where you think you'd see people using wackier and less optimal builds and use off-meta weapons more. The netdecking thing with Elden Ring is also strange. As a guy who does a ton more jolly co-op than invasions/duels you see tons of variety in the PvE builds people run, minus the 110-150 range where most PVP builds are, but invaders have notably less than hosts. I think people running specific anti-gank setups could be a reason but I doubt it's the whole story. Duelists are even fucking worse and it gets to a point you feel like you're fighting the same ten or so people over and over due to the lack of variety. PVE builds still have their meta, I'd be a filthy rich if I got paid for every quad-buffing Varre-bullgoat/Varre-raptorcloack bleed build or every "haha comet azur go brr" build I saw after all, but you don't see clearly "I looked this build up on the internet" shit nearly as often.

>>1598241 >>1599456 can't tell if you guys are fucking with me, but to spell it out, obviously the entire point of random invasions is that neither player knows what they're going to get the whole fun of it is seeing what kinda builds and playstyles other people are cooking up, and maybe you see something you like and try to pivot into that, or make a mental note to try it on a different character if you're just playing with a small group of friends it'll stagnate very quickly This is such an effective tool to lengthen playtime, World of Warcraft for example keeps buffing and nerfing classes/specs on a carousel every 3 months so people get oneshot by an ele shaman and go "man I wanna play that" and make an alt, which is another 30h+ of gameplay to get ready, 1 of those being for leveling you really think none of these MMOs can figure out a fucking DPS sim that 90% of the playerbase uses and balance accordingly? kinda went off topic, but you get what I'm saying, running into randoms is more fun and more effective at stimulating organic replayability

>>1582464 Nope. Souls PvP was never good and twinks were a huge problem. No wonder the majority of players either played offline or were running around in hollow form (which breaks immersion, since the lore encourages you to preserve your humanity instead of running around looking like a freak).

>>1582955 Your second point was further proven right recently with the Lords of the Fallen PvP update that disables invasions by default. Now it's all gankers vs sweatlords and all casual PvPers quit. The PvP population took a nosedive and you'll only get matched with the same couple of cancerous players spamming meta shit with infinite heals.

>>1777864 >No wonder the majority of players either played offline Cowards >or were running around in hollow form A perfectly reasonable stratagem.

>>1777864 >and twinks were a huge problem you've never ran into a single one, you just watched them on youtube the time and effort to make one of those characters + the fact that they can never progress + the fact that you're curbstomping people without any challenge makes them a very rare occurrence you are more likely to run into a cheat engine kid than a twinked out character on DS1

>>1582464 Not just invasions, but it seems everyone suddenly turned against the From way of doing multiplayer. The truth is that Dark Souls is not a multiplayer game like Monster Hunter or Diablo. It was always a single player game where you'd occasionally teamed up with or got invaded by a complete stranger, with the rest of the player interactions being indirect such as with the ghosts or the messages. But thanks to the normalfag masses and the Seamless co-op mod, that's on its way out and the next game will likely be generic friendslop that your coworkers will watch their favorite streamer play live. >>1596304 is right. Modern game design is about not making the player feel bad in any way and constantly stroking his ego (as the anon above said), which is why PvP is falling out of style and people throw a bitchfit when a game like Silksong comes out that doesn't just spoonfeed progression to the player.

>>1582464 I would if most invaders I had to deal with weren't annoying turbofaggots hellbent on wasting as much of my time as possible. The moment they get any kind of pushback they would immediately start running all over the place, hiding behind enemies and other shit like that. There's a reason why invaderfags get all pissy once you remind them that arena duels are a thing if they're such hardcore PvPgods that just want to challenge other players. Invaders don't want fun and honest fights, they just want to bully retards and the moment they can't they start seething and wasting everyone's time out of spite.

>>1831417 the reason you get fags instead of normal people trying to fight is because of the changes they've made to how invasions work in DS1 there was gear you could get by doing invasions, so any normal player going through their playthrough would set aside 2-3h to invade here and there and it was organic and fun but if you can only invade into a team of 3, nobody normal is going to do that. The only players who would engage with that system are people who want to waste your time, and twinking fags. Nowadays if they put any gear behind invasions people would piss and shit themselves on reddit and start posting guides detailing how to get around it with cheat engine. Covid absolutely raped videogames and anime, the most retarded niggers ever are sharing the space now and it sucks.

No because I work a wholeass fulltime job now, and I have a entire house to take care of. The cooking, dishes, laundry, and yardwork ain't gonna do itself. After all of that I don't have the time or energy to deal with some meta build following minmaxed faggot absolutely destroying me in the minuscule scraps of game time I have to play before exhaustion drags me to bed. If I wanted to deal with some failed abortion being annoying as shit and wasting my time I'd work overtime at my job and atleast get paid extra for it. Back in DS1 I used to enjoy messing with invaders alot so I can see where invasions are fun at times, but I'm too damn tired for that shit these days.

>>1837801 >Back in DS1 I used to enjoy messing with invaders alot >complains about getting insta-shrekt by invaders nowadays lolz

>>1837801 >I work a wholeass fulltime job now, and I have a entire house to take care of. The cooking, dishes, laundry, and yardwork AHHH PLEASE KILL ME OH GOD MAKE IT STOP sir this is vidrogames wow sily invader is gonna extend your playtime by 1 hour the kids are gonan fuckin die

I'm just here to say that Bloodborne had the best invasion system. Shame thst the covenants were unfinished.

>>1837801 >I'm too damn tired for that shit these days. Low test faggot. Your wife is ready for the bull.

Souls invasions don't work now because they were invented in the context of body form/soul form white tendency/black tendency. The further they have strayed from this the less sense it has made. I'm guessing though they're sort of trapped by their own success and can't just enforce their original design intent. This is why I think ER has blue phantoms even though there is no fucking reason for them to exist ether mechanically or in the narrative. Their only hope is to pull a Sekiro and do Souls adjacent games that are completely different and allow them to experiment again. Both the people who think Souls games are fighting games AND the people who think they are Hobbit walking parties need to be put in a corner for the sake of everyone else and for genre integrity. I personally want a Souls game with NO conventional PVE or PVP (i.e. no reds nor whites/golds). I want mad phantoms. I want gravelording. I want vileBloods vs ExeCriptioners starting shit with each other on sight and then have a HunterXHunter come in and tard wrangle them both for you. I want area invasion covenants. I want to invite people to my magical realm just to try and make ratdaddy happy. I want crypt spelunking buddies who've sworn a oath to kill centipedes. I want to be another players boss fight, or have them be mine. I want thing's I haven't even thought of.

>>1583464 I agree anon, it was a lot better back then even though it was more "unbalanced". I was one of the few people to actually do a SL9 run in PtDE on PC in order to max out my twink pvp toon as much as possible. The reward for accomplishing a difficult low SL run to invade others was really cool and easily gave me another 50 hours of gameplay. Maybe it was just a different time, but a lot of "noob stomper" invaders were actually pretty chill. I RP'ed as a darkwraith with the full set and a +0 scythe. I would fight with fair gear against any noobs I came across, but kept a +15 half-zatoishi in the back pocket for other twinks who would bait my invasions. I feel like I gave a lot of good memories to new players who got to experience a dynamic challenge instead of the same boss run over and over and over again. Soul level and gank squads ruined later game's pvp and turned it into a gay ass 3D fighting game. I pvped less and less with every installment. I barely touched pvp in elden ring despite it being filled with players who didn't know what they were doing at all. Modern players just aren't cut out for ANY friction in their game design. I miss boss runbacks so much, but if you look at online discourse over similar games like silksong, "gamers" can't STAND spending 45 seconds to get to a fucking boss. Pathetic really.

>>1582464 Remastered has invasions but they fucked with the matchmaking so if you pick up some magic items or level up your weapons too much you can't bully noobs that easily anymore but it's also harder to get summoned for co-op on lower levels and if you don't understand the system. If anything they should have try and figure out how to make the pvp good and not just a retarded side game filled with bugs they won't fix.

>>1839999 >they fucked with the matchmaking so if you pick up some magic items or level up your weapons too much you get matched to your level* tftfy, killer of fun

>>1839672 >I miss boss runbacks so much, but if you look at online discourse over similar games like silksong, "gamers" can't STAND spending 45 seconds to get to a fucking boss. Pathetic really. God I wish gaming would go back to being a niche thing. I can't stand these casuls and the current gay ass generation complaining the second they hit any kind of wall they need to overcome. Invasions were one of the best thing about dark souls and even though I like DS2 a lot, I can't deny that soul memory was the most retarded concept out there. Speaking of, when are they gonna make invading as a boss minion a thing again? Destroying people trying to make it past the mirror knight was very funny

>>1840370 >God I wish gaming would go back to being a niche thing Me too. So much in design is lost because most retards blame the games rather than themselves, to the point that most companies don't even try to add any depth to their designs, or even shy away from the more common rules that we see replicated everywhere. The moment anything is slightly different the casuals will cry a storm, especially because they will mob up and rally behind some fucking retard on youtube with the shittiest of takes that agrees with them being absolute fucking mongrels.

>>1840566 Whoever edited that second picture to say Dark Souls instead of Dwarf Fortress should be shot.

>>1840258 In Ultima Online they've created a copy of the entire game world for carebears and most of the playerbase moved there. That's when I've realized that if you mix pve with pvp you have to cater to pvpers because pvers are rigid babies who don't see getting pkd as a thrill and beginning of a story where you try to get revenge or overcome your nemesis who you then quite often befriend etc., basically healthy dynamics in male spaces. No, pvers are like women. Pvp is fine if they win but the moment they lose it's bullying, trolling and rules have to be changed in a way they're guaranteed a win and then it spills over into pve between gamers and retards who refuse to learn from their mistakes and get better. All conflicts between gamers and posers (culture war included) can be reduced to internal and external locus of control.

>>1840657 >No, pvers are like women. Pvp is fine if they win but the moment they lose it's bullying, trolling and rules have to be changed in a way they're guaranteed a win Would you really be so surprised to know that this happens even in STRICTLY PVE games? The most famous recent example is Silksong, but Helldivers, Darktide, Spelunky 2, Destiny, Remnant 2 to say a few. If it got slightly popular for just a minute, you can bet your ass there will be casuals complaining about the game and lacking and kind of introspection. Even Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Armored Core sort of count in this, in that they've nerfed several PVE only encounters just... because of pure mob drama. Retards having any sort of voice was a huge mistake.

>>1840835 What happened with Darktide?

>>1841449 Somehow, even in spite of people constantly asking for more difficulty everywhere you'd look, there's still posts of people complaining about the difficulty and Fatshark answered over time by buffing everything up to eleven for "build diversity" and nerfing the "annoying parts" like ranged enemies dealing damage, and so now everything blows everything up and nothing short of an Auric run with modifiers is any fun if you have a brain.

>>1840835 That's what I was addressing with >then it spills over into pve between gamers and retards who refuse to learn from their mistake Complainers succeed because these games cost so much money to produce/maintain and marketing and production will push for trivialization until you cave or quit. Games like Darktide, Destiny or Helldivers have another problem - they try to get you on a hamster wheel and that attracts the worst audience that only cares about having better rewards for their mindless grind. People who play for fun are second class citizens who don't play the respective lie service nearly as much as the hamsters and that only incentivizes more dark patterns to keep the chore-doers playing.

>>1582464 I miss them. the main complaints about invasions have always been bewildering to me since in order to get invaded in literally any souls-like you'd need to consume a resource first, you are completely able to avoid getting invaded by simply not consuming that resource. Sure the trade off is less hp or w/e but thats the whole fucking point. It's a risk/reward resource that your consuming, the risk being getting invaded.... Casuals tend to not think about the risks or reprecussions for their own actions and will blame anyone else but themselves. It's anoying and i'm not even a hardcore "git gud" sympathizer. I just hate when casuals take a fun and interesting mechanic and ruin it for everyone else cause their baby ass didn't understand it.