>>1289101 (OP) Its general dislike made me realize how little most people actually care about dungeons, despite what they say. SS was all a dungeons and no overworld, and it sold terribly. BOTW was the opposite and is one of Nintendo's most successful games that they ever made. Normalfags don't care about dungeons.

>>1289146 Remember anon. People were just "tired of the Zelda formula" and Skyward Sword was the straw that broke the camels's back! Also nobody wants to come home from a hard day a work and flail around their house and get whiplash playing Zelda. Don't forget that anon. Seriously though, I actually do prefer SS to both WW and TP. I prefer it in dungeons, music for the most part, combat, gameplay, characters, side quests and a lot more I can't think of at the moment. Of the things I'd fix, I wish there were a way to make the "beneath the Sky" area interconnected since the sequence of finding a statue, going up to the sky, flying to the light beam, selecting where to land and then being able to go can get a bit bothersome. Also I wish taking off on your loftwing from Skyloft were as seamless as you do it when you fly from anywhere else in the sky (probably hardware limitations, but I also wish the HD Remaster would have fixed it). Even still, this one is one of my favorite 3D Zelda games and it always has been.

>>1289146 The dungeons weren't that great though. The Ancient Sistern and the Sand Ship were the only ones that really stood out to me.

>>1289101 (OP) Only worth one playthrough to be honest.

>>>/vb/ Jesus fuck dude, even after weeks you guys still haven't learned how to make threads here. sage

>>1289101 (OP) It's not braindead easy and that's all it takes to exceed the GC games.

>>1289101 (OP) Really? I thought that Wind waker and twilight princess was the better ones and skyward sword was tedious and actually boring for me to play.

>>1289600 You know you want that Ghirahim tongue

>>1289619 The thing I do like a lot about Wind Waker more than both TP and SS would be the sailing and the whole experience around it. Also I do think the art style holds up even now and I think everyone who freaks out about the triforce hunt horribly over exaggerates how "bad" it is. TP I can't think of anything other than the "Boss Defeated" song (one of the best piece of music in all of Zelda to me) and the snowboarding part. In both games I find that I get to a certain point, get bored, and then just stop playing. With TP it happens much faster than WW when I remember all I need to do. I just have a more fun time playing through Skyward Sword and, of the three, it's always been the one I have the easiest time seeing through to the end on repeat playthroughs. Could be the combat, the characters, the dungeons or anything else I mentioned earlier, but I really do prefer it to WW and TP.

>>1289439 >>1289619 Even when considering dungeons alone I'd say WW and TP had far more complex and engagingly designed dungeons than SS. SS was very weak in many aspects in lieu of focusing on motion controls as a gimmick.

>>1291349 (Dead) And no left hand mode in a game that ONLY has motion controls. Like, at least put it in a menu somewhere

>>1291082 Let me ruin WW's dungeons for you. They're all a trick, and in actual gameplay experience may as well be a hallway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuU6ojvBIic&list=PLc38fcMFcV_ul4D6OChdWhsNsYY3NA5B2&index=6 TP's dungeon formula is a lot stronger and less noticeable.

>>1293557 Maybe it's because I played them when I was significantly younger but WW and TP's dungeons just strike me as much more memorable in comparison. I can vividly recall the Forsaken Fortress and Tower of the Gods, and fondly recall the Lakebed Temple and Arbiter's Grounds, but if you asked me to I'd have a hard time recalling much of SS's dungeons besides the pirate ship that had time travel and whichever one had a cool suit of armor boss with six arms.

>>1293717 I would say there are many things that WW and TP do better than SS with their dungeons. They have strong atmosphere, some really stand out puzzles, they are good. On the opposite side, SS's dungeons constantly self sabotage, with skyview temple and the earth temple being painfully generic, and Fi constantly spoiling the few puzzles worth solving because nintendo was afraid of loosing the wii's causal audience. But while the complexity of what's in the rooms suffered, SS's dungeons have stronger navigational challenges, which is one of the two things that makes a dungeon a dungeon rather than just a series of rooms. (The other being resource management, but zelda has always littered hearts and arrows everywhere.)

>>1289619 Of WW, TP, and SS, I'd call TP as the best of the three. Wind Waker is good, but Skyward Sword is just decent at best. I'm not biased because I want to fuck Midna. Dungeons are shit, game is braindead easy, the gimmicks are half baked. Also the worst Zelda. I'll leave it as an exercise to the anon to see if I meant the character or game series.

>>1293817 >there are many things that WW and TP do better than SS with their dungeons >stand out puzzles

WW was underrated in it's time, but became overrated as the years have gone on.

I played BOTW recently and it got me nostalgic, remembered playing Phantom Hourglass as a kid (guess I'm a bit of a zoomer). it was really really really fun! Now I'm going back to play the Zelda games I never did play as I grew up. I'm almost done with OoT and it's incredible! I can imagine how revolutionary it was at the time and when I get in that mindset I can easily see why it's constantly at the top of "best games of all time" lists I'm gonna go for majora's mask next probably, Zelda has a really nice atmosphere that I thoroughly enjoy

>>1290726 >I think everyone who freaks out about the triforce hunt horribly over exaggerates how "bad" it is I replayed WW not too long ago and I really like that part. Exploring the ocean to find hidden treasure is an essential part of any pirate adventure. The strongest critique I've heard of it is that if you've already explored the entire ocean, then you won't encounter anything new. But most people aren't going to do that, especially not on their first playthrough, and if you did explore everything, you probably already have the charts at least since I'm pretty sure you can still get them even before the quest officially begins.

>>1289101 (OP) SS's Lanaryu Mining Facility, Ancient Cistern and Sandship are generally fantastic. If the rest of the game is as good as those dungeons then SS' reputation would've been improved.

PH and ST are easily in the top 5 of any true Zelda fan if you can get past the touch screen controls, which aren't even that bad if you actually use a DS

>>1317538 I want to replay them and I'm considering buying a DS just for those 2 games kek. Still unsure, maybe the emulation is good enough

>>1289101 (OP) I respect Skyward Sword's dungeons and overall gameplay, but I still prefer Twilight Princess and Wind Waker over it, more so Twilight Princess. The story of Twilight Princess along with its aesthetic is what fleshes out the package for me. It's definitely lacking in the combat department, specifically when it comes to enemy intelligence, but the story just makes it way more fun to play compared to crawling through each step of Skyward Sword. I also prefer the music and art style. >Also I wish taking off on your loftwing from Skyloft were as seamless as you do it when you fly from anywhere else in the sky Yeah that also struck me as weird, I assume it had to do with rendering Skyloft or something like that. >>1291349 (Dead) This, though I thought the motion controls worked well for me. >>1289146 It really was demoralizing finally playing BotW, realizing it's one of my least favorite Zelda games ever, and then seeing everyone praise it like it's one of the best. I think the concept was cool, but the lack of context-dependent puzzles, sense of progression and unique enemies made the whole experience feel hollow. I remember the first time I played it asking myself for 60+ hours "this is okay, but surely it gets better eventually, right?" I have no idea why they thought it would be a good idea to go from little control over how you progress through the story to "let's let the player do anything they want, regardless of progress!" It's good for replayability, but the game itself felt so lacking that I didn't want to replay it ever again.

>>1318746 Yeah, seeing Breath of the Wild being praised to high heaven when it's one of the worse Zelda games really doesn't give confidence in the future of the franchise, for me anyway.

>>1317538 ST is but PH is genuinely not very good.

>>1318746 >>1318754 What did BotW/TotK need to be good? They're games where having the right resources trivializes every encounter, so they really needed to have tighter control over it. Decrease the disparity too. There's no reason the top level gear and enemies need to be so much stronger. A max inventory size, and less of the powerful stuff to go around. They also needed a story worth telling happening in the present, and triple the enemy variety. And if I could dream for a bit, both games would benefit a lot from a strategic layer. The games are about reclaiming ruined lands, so taking out enemy camps should actually do something. Instead we just get terry town and those pirates. TotK specifically needed to better incentivize vehicle building by making your last used vehicle not disappear every time you go into a shrine, and spacing out the shrines more so the next one isn't just a short walk away and building a car is worth it. Also make building bigger vehicles better by having enemies attack random parts disabling them, making the hover bike a death trap, and nonessential parts important. BotW and TotK are so close to being good, it really proves that nintendo is retarded.

>>1318746 >the game itself felt so lacking that I didn't want to replay it ever again. Everything after the first hour already feels like a reply.

>>1318746 That's almost exactly the same reaction I had to BotW. The first couple hours from the Great Plateau to Hateno was really fun and engaging, then after actually reaching a divine beast the game felt less and less rewarding as it dragged on. "Wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle" is the best description I've ever heard for it.

>>1338049 (Dead) You have convinced me to never play an open world game, good job.

>>1338049 (Dead) While I love BOTW, I wonder if… >they don't annoy you with Level Up rpg grinding mechanics. …they might not pull a Zelda 2 and do that with their next mainline game, specifically with it NOT being open world and going back to a more restrictive traversal model like Ocarina, etc.

I think every zelda game is fine but only some hold up on subsequent playthroughs. botw, totk and skyward sword fall under games I'd never want to start a new save file for, even after 10 years.

BotW was ruined for me once I realize outside a few circumstances fighting enemies is pointless due to how enemies attack. They run up to you pause then attack. So if you just run past them even if foes catch up to you they just pause to attack, your still safe if you keep running. In previous zeldas you had a reason to kill them, money. But you can get a decent amount of money by selling those glowing stones. So unless you're going for armor ingredients there's not a real reason to attack random monsters because your weapons will just break.

>>1342078 There's also only a handful of enemies in the first place. I imagine it was meant to be a dad game that you only play in one hour sessions so you don't notice that though.

>>1342078 >>1342083 Not to get too off-topic here or too BotW-specific, God knows every thread when that came out was about these same points but the design of BotW really fascinates me from a game design perspective because it feels like there was something that went wrong in the design phase, like the gameplay loop the devs envisioned wasn't fully thought through or realized to its full potential. In other open-world crafting games you're incentivized to fight enemies for a handful of reasons like gaining exp, gathering resources, or progressing through an area. Yet in BotW exp doesn't exist, resources are incredibly plentiful and for the most part unnecessary to gather, and like 65f933 said most enemies can simply be run past save for certain encounters or shrines/dungeons (and even then you always have bombs and telekinesis at your disposal, in case you run out of dozens of weapons that are plentiful everywhere). There's dozens of (((video essays))) that go over the game's design so this has all probably been said and analyzed to death but it still fascinates me, maybe just because in my mind TLoZ has always been a very carefully crafted and balanced dungeon-focused action RPG genre. I still think BotW is a good game, and it was fun the first time I played it, but it also feels like it falls flat in several ways by virtue of being an experiment for Nintendo and it's really disappointing seeing how highly it gets praised when it strays so far from and delivers so flat on the things that have always made TLoZ (imo) TLoZ.

>>1342817 Botw is forgivable for being experimental, but TotK is not for learning nothing from BotW.

>>1342817 TD;LR: shiggy has cracked his dream formula of zelda it's never going back. Shiggy always wanted this to be zelda. Well in one of gazillion video essays suggested Zelda is shiggy dream project to make a 'Hakoniwa' game, most of the time this translated as 'box garden' in interviews. 'hakoniwa' is japan cultural phenomenon it can refer those stereotypical courtyard gardens to mini bonsai trees and gardens to just dioramas which people are speculating that's what Shigeru Miyamoto wanted zelda to be. A small little world you can creatively mess around in. It also explains why Echoes of Wisdom returns to the style of the Links Awakening remake, the characters look like a nintendo version of lego or playmobil set while having a similar gameplay open endness as BotW and TotK. So zelda as shiggy see it is the sandbox gameplay 'TECHONOGLY' gimmicks not the well crafted dungeons. Now that's satisfied he's created a true 'hakoniwa' he's just going to tinkering on it instead of using it as a framework for an actual 'zelda game' at least how we know it. Video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dFAK3Owtg >>1342887 If were using lego or playmobil as a metaphor BotW is the first set they sold and TotK is the vehicle and cavern set.

Zelda needs catgirls to be in Link's harem in the next game

>>1343112 >TD;LR: shiggy has cracked his dream formula of zelda it's never going back. Shiggy always wanted this to be zelda. That's fine, because I too have already found my dream Zelda game. I just wish they'd make a sequel.

>>1343888 (Checked) Anon, every Dark Souls-formula game past Demon Souls is a sequel to itself.

>>1343381 (Dead) I've found every Zelda game that offers that style of design has to balance the freedom of choice in dungeons/areas with a far more basic and easier overall design, so that any average person playing doesn't come up against a wall they can't pass. Zelda games designed in the "classic" (see: Ocarina) style allow for the dungeons to progressively build on previous lessons and items acquired so the further the player gets, the more complex and challenging the design can be. Without a structured progression of lessons learned and abilities acquired, the player is left with a world that offers much freedom but ultimately little challenge. Sure, you can tackle each part of the game in any order but ultimately each part will always be the same difficulty and experience regardless of what you've done previously. BotW could have actually alleviated this with the inclusion of shrines, which by virtue of being disconnected from necessary progression might have taken into account which items, abilities and resources the player had at their disposal before marching them with a fitting challenge but instead only have preset layouts which suffer from the same issues I previously mentioned. I feel there could be a balance between that freedom and traditional design, maybe with something modular and adaptive like chalice dungeons from Bloodborne or similar but ultimately the static design Zelda has kept to keeps the games from finding a satisfying balance between freedom and difficulty.

I don't mean to be a contrarian, but remind me, why do people make such a big deal out of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, again? I've played most Zelda games up until the WiiU at various points of my life and I enjoyed them all to various degrees; I didn't care about most things people normally complain about, like style and aesthetics, controls and gimmicks, game designs, stories, you name it, I didn't mind them. ALTTP and ALBW turned out to be my most loved Zelda games, same for ST. But the N64 games? Ever since I played them on my teens they felt extremely dated and poorly aged, even when I normally don't care about those sorts of stuff in retro games. They were also not very fun to control, explore and interact with, everything was so jarring to go through. My first experience felt awfully shallow and wrong in a ways I never felt before. I touched the game again not so long ago when I was trying a rando with friends and my feelings didn't change at all, I didn't like it at all... but everyone kept creaming all over these games. I simply just don't get it. What's so special about OOT and MM? Am I missing something? Is it possibly a byproduct of having grown up with a PS1, which causes every N64 title that isn't Star Fox 64 to feel very weak, shallow and wrong?

>>1344368 People make a big deal out of Ocarina of Time because it was a big deal. It was essentially the game that brought The Legend of Zelda to a wider audience and codified countless tropes and game design standards both for the series and the industry in general. You can say it aged poorly which I disagree with but compared to other games of the era and even many games today it's incredibly well-designed and paced. It essentially set an industry standard and as a result is constantly referenced for that fact. >I didn't care about most things people normally complain about, like style and aesthetics, controls and gimmicks, game designs, stories, you name it, I didn't mind them. Uh... What did you care about, then?

>>1344419 I guess you make a point on them being a precedent for the standard, much like Mario 64 set a precedent for 3D games in general (Funny then, cause I don't quite like Mario 64 either lmao). That's fair, I still don't like them, but makes sense why people make such a big deal about them. >Uh... What did you care about, then? No, I meant I don't care about the most common complaints of most Zelda games. Like people love to bitch and whine about SS controls and other flaws, or TP/WW art designs, or Zelda 1/2 obtuseness... and I honestly didn't have any major issues with none of those things (I'm still yet to beat Zelda 1 legitimately and Zelda 2 period, though). I'm a pretty all-around vidya enjoyer, there aren't many things that throw me off, but both OOT and MM are simply an exception.

>>1344368 >What's so special about OOT and MM? Am I missing something? hard to answer without knowing what specifically bothered you about them

>>1349679 If I had to put it in a way, I'd say I simply don't like the way it feels. The controls don't feel right, the movement doesn't feel right, the music doesn't feel right (most of the time), the visuals don't feel right, menuing doesn't feel right, combat doesn't feel right, the exploration doesn't feel right, nothing about it feels right to me. It's mostly a sensory and interpersonal thing, I will admit, I'm not saying the games are badly designed or anything, like anon said, they set a precedent for 3D games and the Zelda series... and I'm genuinely not picky at all when it comes to videogames, I can play almost anything without thinking so much about it... but the N64 Zelda games clicked the most wrong way possible to me, so much that I don't see myself playing them ever again (at least MM, something tells me I have to give OOT a replay one of these days). That said, I wonder if playing the 3DS remakes would make a different, that'd be hilarious ngl.

>>1350194 There is input lag and what >>1350298 (Dead) said but the rest is just you. If you haven't played them to the end at least once, at least try to.

>>1343112 Why does anyone take what Shigeru Miyamoto says seriously? He's no more than a glorified hype/sales man for Zelda and Mario nowadays and constantly contradicts himself. He claimed Ocarina of Time was what he envisioned Zelda as when it came out. When Skyward Sword was released he claimed it was what he always wanted Zelda to be. He says this every time a Zelda is released. He has little to do with the games development outside of occasional advice. Shigeru Miyamoto has also constantly contradicted himself in regards to Mario. He previously claimed that Peach being kidnapped was the main story dynamic in Mario because he liked the simplicity and it was inspired by the Popeye cartoons. During the development of New Super Mario Bros and Mario Galaxy you had other developers trying to suggest more complex plots but he always rejected them. Now after the release of the Mario movie he claims he always wanted Peach to be a girl boss and only made her a damsel in distress due to the technical limitations of the nes.

>>1289146 Another great example of this is Majora's Mask. Majora's Mask has absolutely mediocre piss easy dungeons outside of the stone tower temple. I understand why they're easier. They had to be due to the time limit. But it's much worse as a game due to these mediocre dungeons. The side quests are also ABYSMAL in terms of actual gameplay. The only reason Majora's Mask is so loved is because of its story and themes. Wind Waker I find to be similar. Incredibly mediocre game. Yet people claim it's better than Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword because of its cell shaded art style. People are shallow and don't care about actual gameplay

>>1362844 Miyamoto has had no institutional power at Nintendo for like ten years at this point probably. Anything that happens with Zelda is because of Aonuma not Miyamaoto. He's the one pushing open world sandbox stuff. Remember this was the guy who was embarrassed Majora's Mask exists. He has always had a major disconnect between what he thinks Zelda is and what the fans do.

>>1362895 Unfortunately Aonuma is right now. Sandbox Zelda games are more successful financially than dungeon based Zelda games. Dungeon based Zelda games don't have a large appeal. Each game after Ocarina of Time became easier and easier. They couldn't reach their full potential because they were terrified of losing casuals like they did with the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time. Even if they continued making traditional Zelda games they'd be mediocre.

I just had an epiphany after two decades. The whole quest in Majora's Mask where the Deku Princess runs off and her father blames monkeys is meant to be a metaphor for her being a coalburner?

>>1362884 It's 3D Zelda. They're rarely ever not shallow by absolute standards. Relatively, OoT and MM by extension to this day have the most depth in their combat. It's just a shame the enemies aren't engaging enough for that to shine through. WW and TP have the same engine, so they're not as far off as they seem, and TP is genuinely worse in terms of difficulty with no punishment for death. In terms of puzzles, I could probably count the number of interesting ones before SS on one hand. At best, you can get the occasional confusing to traverse dungeon like the Water or Wind Temple. >>1362980 TotK already suffered worse reception than BotW. I don't think they're going to continue with the open world meme without massive changes, unless Nintendo has genuinely lost all sense they used to have for "innovation."

I haven't been interested in this series since Twilight Princess. These games have gotten progressively less fun and interesting since then. I completely skipped Skyward Sword because it looked like the gayest shit ever and then I played Breath of the Wild because it was making everyone pog their champs and it ended up just being >Big vast expanse full of fucking nothing >Link that dies if he gets sneezed on by an enemy, have to find some basic clothes for the faggot so he isn't just in his underwear >Retarded constant scavenging for weapons since they all break, this apparently doesn't end even if you get the Master Sword >Shitty gameplay flow, stuff constantly added by the devs just to dick over the player, homosexual character designs >No actual temples, just a bunch of mini-challenges scattered throughout the map >The bosses are just boring element-themed variations of Ganon Breath of the Wild is abject dog shit that gets boring quickly, I played up to the second heavenly beast or whatever and I gave up because there was just this pervasive feeling of "okay I get it" and never powered it back on again. The last game in this series I truly enjoyed was Link Between Worlds on the 3DS.

>>1366510 It's time for your annual walk in the woods anon.

>>1367317 TOTK is the second best selling Zelda game and did amazingly while being $70. Nintendo would be dumb not to continue

>>1368304 (Dead) A link between worlds wasn't a traditional Zelda game. It lacks meaningful item progression. The dungeons in that game were incredibly mediocre and easy. It was the proto botw

>>1366510 This bait is so bad it's good.

>>1343112 I'd never heard of that goal of his before. I get how that fits the design of the original LoZ and stuff like LA/ALttP/OoA/OoS with their boxed-in tile based design, but that doesn't really fit OoT and MM, which he also worked on. I'll have to read more into that but I have my doubts since he's also explained one of his biggest goals for TLoZ was to capture the feeling of exploring the woods as a kid. Like >>1362844 says, he's sort of the mouthpiece of the company and has to say what helps sell the games.

>>1369468 (Dead) You get the item outside the dungeon and each dungeon can only require one item because of the dumb rental mechanic. This means there's no ramping up of dungeons. Every single one is the same amount of difficulty because it can be first and each dungeon only features one type of puzzles because you might not have other items. And because of stupid fucking renting they can't even do a thing where at least the three main items from the first three dungeons can be used in the second set because you might not have those items anymore. The "I wish you can do any dungeon whenever" crowd were disastrous for Zelda. The games were better when they were linear.

>>1289101 (OP) It's not hard to be better then WW but TP is still the better game.

>>1369928 This. It's funny they try to claim that the original Zelda was nonlinear when starting with dungeon 4, the game starts gating dungeons behind items, meaning you have to complete them in a certain order. It's so obvious they didn't even finish the original Zelda. "Muh freedom"ers would rather play mediocre kindergarten tier content in any order vs linear carefully constructed high quality content

>>1362980 I just find it funny how butthurt he is at Koizumi doing better then him and trying to remove everything Koizumi added to the series.

>>1371644 (Dead) In every Zelda from at least LttP through Skyward sword EVERY dungeon contained an item and almost every one of those items was a progression item used for some kind of puzzle solving. And when dungeons were linear you could then, imagine this, have dungeons that require multiple items to solve puzzles. I know, it's deep concept.

>>1371875 (Dead) Yes, and? That's part of a linear sequence. You get the hookshot outside a dungeon in OoT too. Every dungeon still has an important item you use for progression all the same. The argument was never that all items must be dungeon items. Just that dungeons should have an item. If you want to have more progression between dungeons then great.

>>1374402 (Dead) >At the sacrifice of replay value, sure. That's exactly the argument people give for why they prefer BotW over TP/SS. Sure, there's more replay variety but that itself is at the sacrifice of shallow depth and lack of complexity. I think the entire crux of this issue is whether someone prefers a game with deeper complexity or wider freedom of choice, and generally speaking the Zelda games have leaned towards the former, whereas larger audiences (see: casuals) prefer the latter.

>>1374402 (Dead) The dungeons are so medicine you won't feel a desire to replay the game. I replay Ocarina of Time because it has the best dungeons in the series. I never touch A Link Between Worlds because the dungeons are so simplistic and overly easy. I could barely beat the game for the first time last year without breaks in-between due to how utterly bored I was.

>>1289101 (OP) >Skyward Sword got a lot of things right. Kys. The only thing it got right was Ghirahim's karen haircut.

>>1289619 Normally I can play through Zelda again and again, but I haven't been able to do that for games post TP. That was the last one I could play over and over again. BotW/TotK do not have much replay-ability at all surprisingly. Exploration is it's only positive and after you've done that... there's not much else.

>>1366510 How dare you compare MM monkeys to niggers.

>>1374402 (Dead) >muh replay value Go play a different game if you start complaining about having to complete OoT for the 12th time. Nobody is forcing you to play the same game over and over again. Nobody but Autism.

Started playing TotK a few weeks ago. At Ganondorf now. Holy shit is this game fucking tedious. I just wanna be done with it and move on. And I absolutely love how the final fights throw a bunch of gloom at you taking away all your hearts and making all your healing items useless. It's great that I have to go back and do several hours of side quests just to farm an item that can actually heal me for the boss. Good job nintendo at least I didn't pay for it

>>1378129 It's not about being forced to replay, it's about it being fun to replay. More replayability means more fun. But that guy is being ridiculous. Link Between Worlds is nowhere near as good.

>>1369422 That's why it'll be clear how hard they've fallen. In the past, they'd pivot all the time and money was only ever a factor in switching from WW2 to TP. >>1369928 The dungeons definitely ramp up. Hera is harder than the other 2 and Turtle Rock + the ice one + Lorule Kakariko were harder than the rest. Echoes is similar and the difficulty curve is even more clear there. A better complaint would be having a negative difficulty curve if you go out of their suggested order. >>1377690 It's because they're naturally so repetitive. If you do half the game, you've essentially experienced everything it has to offer several times over.

>>1377687 And Fi's design.

I know why not, but I wish we got more references to Sheik in other games. Like, other than BotW outfits which barely count for anything. Ninjas helping you out thoughout the journey would be cool

>>1384949 >Second pic >No tri force Wasted opportunity

Is there even anywhere for the franchise to go at this point? You've got 2D Zelda, 3D Zelda, time travel Zelda, alternative universe Zelda, Zelda underwater, grimdark Zelda, Zelda in the sky, steampunk Zelda, and now open world Zelda. Making anything that isn't a massive departure from the series would almost definitely be rehashing the same territory but then that'd risk alienating Zelda fans. I'm sort of surprised there hasn't been a Paper Legend of Zelda at this point.

>>1393157 THey haven't done grimdark yet.

>>1393157 >>1393195 Zelda Souls.

>>1393157 >Is there even anywhere for the franchise to go at this point? To war.

>>1393210 Yuck.

>>1393195 That's what I recall people criticizing Twilight Princess for back when it came out. You could definitely go darker than that though. >>1393252 Hyrule Warriors already exists.

>>1393157 You don't need to innovate super hard to do something good. I think going closer to the classic Zelda formula bit with a larger scale world like BotW and TotK had could be an interesting thing to do and a new enough approach to not be seen as a rehash. If you need some big innovation maybe a game focused hard on a buddy system like those two dungeons from Wind Waker, but expanded into a whole game where your switching out partners for various dungeons or working as a team for them.

>>1393157 Like I said earlier: make a spiritual sequel to Zelda II. A proper RPG Zelda with levels. That fills the "we want something new!" whining while not actually traveling outside of Zelda's wheelhouse.

>>1393157 sci-fi Zelda like the original concept

>>1420399 (Dead) Everything about that rumor seemed fake.

>>1420399 (Dead) >>1420410 >>1420428 (Dead) Apparently the rumor was spread by a PR firm hired by the tranny to get hired as Zelda, lmao https://archive.ph/Qbix2

>>1395560 >Live action Zelda movie I can't really image any way that this will turn out good. >>1422353 >Tranny has to make up lies for attention Imagine my astonishment.

>>1422353 I could have told you this was fake buzz to try and push Nintendo to do it via guilt from the start.

>>1422353 It'd be a big shame if someone sabotaged any of HIS chances to play Zeldo.

>>1289146 >and it sold terribly This isn't true at all

>>1367411 TPfags are a fucking plague

I just went back and started enjoying my older games. Did a rando run of LTTP, and had a real blast, up until I realized that I got to the very end of the game and have no idea where the silver arrows are.

>>1582620 Did you look under the bridge by Link's house?

>>1582910 Yeah, found some bombs.

>>1582620 You get them from the fairy in the pyramid. You have to blow up the crack in the wall with the giant bomb you get from the house that's where Link's house is in the Dark World.

>>1583791 I'm doing a randomizer, so the fairy in the pyramid only gives me some rupees and a bottle. I can't even remember if I've left any chests unopened, and I've long since lost the spoiler log. So I guess that's it for this run.

>>1583806 Oh hey, it's (You), from that other thread! I'm sorry to hear that you still couldn't find the silver arrows. If you need help finding locations that you haven't checked yet or forgot to check again, you could use this tracker: https://dev.alttprtracker.mfns.dev/ It looks complicated, but assuming you're using normal settings, you just gotta set map to normal and launch the tracker (the chests on the left are the number of item checks in dungeons assuming all keys/compasses/maps are in their respective dungeons). Hopefully you didn't set it to hard mode, because you don't get to use silver arrows until the Ganon fight. If you got armor upgrades, then you aren't on hard mode. Anyway, I did another randomizer and got my in-game time down to 2:23:07. Still not great, but it's improvement. A lot of weird stuff in that seed: Had to do the entirety of Eastern Palace (red pendant) just to get the flippers so that King Zora could give me the flute. I had to do the first item check of Swamp Palace (green pendant) just to get the mushroom that I traded for the Cane of Somaria. The fire rod and silver arrows were both trapped in Ice Palace (which I did vanilla, because I couldn't find the Cane and it was a crystal), which was locked behind Bombos which was just hanging out on the Pyramid. The Bumper Cave check had the hookshot, which is normally required just to get the item (thankfully you can just walk along the outside edge). Finally, one of the armor upgrades was locked behind the Master Sword pedestal, with the other being on top of the post at the start of Ganon's Tower basement (a small key and the big key were also in the neighboring chests). Gonna do another run soon after this, not sure if I'll do as well, but hopefully it's shorter than 2:30.

>>1584219 I don't remember anything about the seed I used, made it a long time ago and finally broke it out due to boredom, but something good came up. >decided to try fighting Ganon anyway >long battle since I still only have the lvl 3 sword and medium armor >approaches the darkness phase of the battle >ganon says "did you remember to get the arrows from death mountain" i should've tried fighting this guy earlier. Let's hope this lead works.

>>1584415 Oh yeah, the reminder! It's good you checked that. That also means you're not in hard mode. Don't forget to check Death Mountain in the Light and Dark Worlds. I think there's also a chance it could be in the Tower of Hera, Turtle Rock and Ganon's Tower (note: there are 20 checks in Ganon's Tower).

>>1584430 I can't believe it. The damn thing was hidden in a room that i didn't even know existed. 25 years of playing this game, and this is the first time knowing of this location. Or maybe my memory sucks. >get to the final room after a scuffle with Ganon >triforce literally says, and I'm not joking, "did you like that bow placement" as a final middle finger Very funny. The floating pieces of cheese have a sense of humor. Infact, this whole run was having a giggle at my expense. >have to beat 90% of the game to get the Pegasus boots >which means several dungeons can't even be entered or finished >backtracking everywhere is a nightmare >unlocking the ocarina was also late I promise that's why my time is so bad.

>>1584530 Nice, well done! Glad you were able to finally beat it. Mimic Cave is often the place people get their last heart piece, not just because it's hidden behind an outdoor passage in Turtle Rock, but because people completely forget about it by the time they get to Turtle Rock. >And the sprint shoes sleeps again... Forever! Holy shit, did it really hide the boots behind the pedestal? That's awful; the only time the game has hidden mandatory items behind pedestal for me is during crosskey settings (all entrances and exits are randomly reconnected, also keys, maps and compasses are scattered throughout the world), so you have my condolences for that too. I also did that next run I said I would do earlier and HOLY SHIT it was bad. It turns out the game wanted me to walk all the way up to King Zora, after getting the gloves from Eastern Palace and the flute from Hyrule Sewers (it expected me to do the dark sections blind with just the fire rod), just to get the hammer, then use the hammer to go to Thieves' Town and get the flippers, just to go back to the waterfall next to Zora's domain to get the silver arrows. Go Mode was also locked behind boots, because I couldn't get the Desert Palace key without ramming the post in there, and I didn't end up finding it until the last check I was going to do before starting Misery Mire (blue pendant). I'm surprised my time was still so low, but that's probably because I didn't do Misery Mire or Turtle Rock, some of the most grueling dungeons in the whole game. I did do Skull Woods even though I got nothing out of it.

I really, really liked the concept of Phantom Hourglass (and to a lesser extent Spirit Tracks) but man their execution was awful. There's so much more that could have been done with a seafaring pirate concept, the games could have even become a Zelda take on something like Sid Meier's Pirates! or an actual Wild West concept (which TP almost did with the one abandoned village) if it wasn't relegated to such shit hardware and stymied game design. You guys think Nintendo is ever going to revisit the concept? It's insanely unlikely I know but these were from before Hyrule Warriors and the Ace Attorney N64 mod which I'm sure is already C&D'd to a bloody pulp which really helped show TLoZ can work in other genres if the effort's put in.

>Randomizer Seed #56 >Kept dying over and over again because it always felt like I was one sword upgrade short of where the game wanted me to be >Also annoying because Sahasrahla was guarding a mandatory item (Cane of Somaria for green pendant) >Never found a third sword upgrade, so I did Castle Tower after beating Ganon's Tower just to get the sword upgrade from Lumberjack ledge (tried getting it after getting the hammer, but I apparently suck at fighting Agahnim with the hammer) >In-game time was a little under 2:40 (20-25 minutes above average) >Look up where the last sword upgrade was >Bottle merchant had it >Mfw I completely forgot to buy the bottle at the start of the game

Anyone know if there are any fan made mods for TP, Skyward Sword, or any of the GBA games? I know there's that one Wind Waker unflooded mod that's still in the works and Skip of Harkinian but I haven't seen a lot of other big mods for Zelda games probably because most people don't want to get sued out the ass but I digress. The WW one and stuff like the Ace Attorney mod give me hope though.

>>1289101 (OP) too bad we now have the tech to actually make skyward sword right. and instead we have... blue link.

>>1703788 He's really more of a turquoise Link, or as I like to call him, Twink.

>>1703788 Skyward Sword with modern tech would work just as well. You still won't feel your sword actually hit things, your real arm will just slide through while your in-game arm will not. I loved Skyward Sword and thought the complaints were silly, because this is the fundamental issue here, and we are nowhere close to solving it. I don't think people would want it to actually be solved. Something that could actually make it feel like you were hitting things with a sword could hurt people. Smash a sword into a rock and you'll probably hurt your arm.

I've heard the general sentiment on TOTK has gradually turned into "it's a worse BOTW". TOTK doesn't seem to have anywhere near the cultural longevity BOTW had. I haven't played TOTK, so why is this? I thought it looked like BOTW but with more content.

>>1732973 It's literally the exact same game but you can build cars now, and you have to dedicate *even more* time to scavenging weapons/shields.

>>1732973 >expansion sold as a more expensive sequel near the end of the consoles lifespan Not hard to see, though I have no idea on its quality as I'm not interested in either of them.

>>1732973 It's basically BOTW but with more stuff. In most regards, saying it's somehow worse is bullshit. However, I do think there is one significant issue. In TOTK you can get shot up into the air and then skydive to basically anywhere you want (at least on the overworld). It makes traversal trivially easy, while traversal was basically the entire point of BOTW, at least in my opinion. This makes sense if you've already played BOTW, since you would already be familiar with the world, and once you are, you start warping around the map anyway. Not making you explore the entire place on foot again makes sense in that regard. But I do think that actually exploring on foot, and climbing all those mountains, was the main thing in the game, and now it's largely gone. That said, the underworld area is a lot of fun, even if not as fleshed out as the overworld. The sky area is fun too, but very sparse compared to the other two areas. But I suppose the two new areas combined are almost as fun as base BOTW, and it's not like there is no new stuff to do in the overworld of TOTK. I think the people saying BOTW is better might not be saying that if they hadn't played it first. However, TOTK seems to assume you have played BOTW first, so it might be a somewhat fair criticism. Also, I 100%ed both games, with all koroks and all the other stupid bullshit to do. Even with all that autism, the building mechanic in TOTK was still almost never necessary. I suppose if I wanted to just fuck around for no reason, if I had that kind of autism, I might enjoy it. But my type of autism wants actual goals to use the mechanics for, and the actual goals of the game only ask you to make a few very simple machines here and there. It would have been better if there were harder challenges that really made you explore the system to its limit.

>>1732973 It's interesting to hear that people are now thinking of ToTK more critically, since at release, if you didn't think it was the best game out there, you'd be ignored or berated. What really captured player's interest in BoTW was the mystery that the world had, the openness, the unknown. Not only because it was the first time the Zelda series had done this style of game, but because the wide open and sparsely populated world really made the player feel alone while also fostering a sense of adventure. On top of this, Link himself was without memory of his allies, life, and most importantly his princess. Most of his power and skill were gone, and he had to find armaments and supplies along the road as he traveled, picking up scraps to do battle with as he picked up mental scraps of his memories. ToTK had none of this. It was the same landscape with a few changes to the terrain. This is also where the game fails as a sequel. No one acknowledges the heroic efforts of Link in the previous game, nor do they treat him more than a decently skilled knight who helps Zelda. The Divine Beasts are gone and no one talks about them. That horrible Calamity Ganon that Zelda spent 100 years holding back (which nearly killed her) and Link worked with her to defeat after a 100 year coma? No one talks about that either, and guess what, the real Ganon was actually in the cellar of the castle the whole time :^). Not to mention that the plot is pretty much the whole Sage thing from Ocarina of Time all over again. And worst of all, the house you work hard to buy in BoTW is Zelda's house all of a sudden in ToTK. Link is left with chinese quality prefab housing materials. It's as if the writers wanted to make the game familiar to BoTW players and save time by reusing a ton of assets, but didn't want new players to feel left out if they didn't play BoTW. They wanted to make a sequel and a new-ish game at the same time and failed at both. The sky islands are a neat concept, but they are a bit sparse, and the only things to do there are collect items for crafting, open some chests, and maybe fight some mobs. The underground area is pretty cool as a concept too, but again, the main activity involves finding checkpoints to light up your map and finding items to craft with or sell. The reason ToTK didn't have as much cultural longevity is because there wasn't much new "meat" to dig into. Finding out what happened to Zelda is cool and all, but helping an amnesiac Link get powerful again and finish what he started 100 years ago, making good on the sacrifice of all of his closest friends, is a lot more satisfying.

>>1732973 TOTK's problem, and BOTW by extension, is that they wanted to try so many new things, but nothing feels focused. Like they wanted to make a giant sandbox where you can do a ton of stuff, but no challenges to grit your teeth on. so a puzzle becomes instantly invalidated once you figure out that you can fly right over it, or a majority of quests can be trivialized if you unlocked something earlier than you should've (zonai hover stone makes a complete joke of every addison sign quest) Even when they tried to impose limitations, like not letting you make any vehicle inside shrines, those could still be trivialized because there's too many solutions that let you just bypass the entire shrine, and many shrines suffer from this. Some say the freedom to make your fun is good, but if you can hop over an obstacle, it feels like an oversight more than an intentional choice. BOTW would occasionally have a funny little moment where you sequence broke and the game would actually acknowledge it (like reaching the Zora kingdom before meeting Sidon). TOTK doesn't offer that same feeling. Story-wise, it's a mess as well. You can view those memories of how Zelda is trapped in the past and became a dragon, and yet Link never tells anyone about them, so we're supposed to be shocked when "Zelda" in the present turns out to be Ganondorf. You'd think they would take into account the player learning this beforehand. Not to mention the whole time travel plot is just lame. It doesn't add anything, it just puts some furries into the lore and promptly removes them, thus invalidating the whole point of putting them in. Overall ambitious, but sloppy.

>>1740767 >Like they wanted to make a giant sandbox where you can do a ton of stuff, but no challenges to grit your teeth on It begs the question, why is this the case? Was the team limited by time? Money? The fact that they were reusing the same map as the previous game with just a few changes and tweaks? >You can view those memories of how Zelda is trapped in the past and became a dragon I can't decide if it was too easy or not to figure out that the dragon is Zelda. The tears that contain the memories clearly come from a dragon that has "hair" a lot like hers, and the only constant in each memory is Zelda. So the memories are clearly hers, and thus the dragon is her. Did anyone else start to figure it out only after collecting only a few tears? >so we're supposed to be shocked when "Zelda" in the present turns out to be Ganondorf. You'd think they would take into account the player learning this beforehand. There could have been an option to approach things differently if the player already figured things out. The characters really seemed to be tricked by this fake Zelda all to readily, given how dangerous and corrupted the world around them has become. Maybe the writers just really wanted the player to have a climactic fight against the fake Zelda and not deal with her too early by warning your allies. >Not to mention the whole time travel plot is just lame. It doesn't add anything Since Zelda wouldn't be trapped in a castle this time, it seems like the writers wanted to make sure she had an important role that resonated with players, without being a constant companion in Link's quest. Being stuck as a dragon for millennia, slowly and steadily healing the Master Sword with her own power, seems to be an attempt at having her make a risky, epic sacrifice that would hopefully get a strong emotional reaction from the player. Even though Zelda plays a crucial role for the final fight, this way she would be an essential part of the entire story, not just the end. Part of what makes this lame on its own, even though the concept is fine, is that Zelda sees no consequences. I'm not expecting extreme mental damage, crippled limbs, or similar things afflicting Zelda in an official Nintendo game, but once she becomes hylian again she just feels like she had a long nap. No emotional impact from being in the sky for so long in a different form, not even a scar or anything. Yes, with her help the world was saved, but there is no lasting personal impact from the huge risk she took by swallowing that stone. Which makes for lame, unsatisfying writing. >it just puts some furries into the lore and promptly removes them, thus invalidating the whole point of putting them in. Guess Zelda had to talk to someone when she went back in time, to gain the powers she needed to heal the Master Sword. And it was the perfect chance to shove in some random lore about the beginnings of Hyrule. They are only there to get some emotional reactions, power up Zelda, and maybe the player thinks it's cool to see who built all of these Zonai devices long ago. If you could have somehow played as Zelda, controlled her as she explored the far past, it would have developed a much better parallel between the thriving Zonai world she is in and the ruined Zonai world Link is exploring in the present day. Maybe the player could have helped her train her powers by completing puzzles.

>>1741340 I really like the dragon Zelda twist, and the way it leaves you to piece it together. Even if it's a really easy mystery, it's the kind of mystery that works really well with the way you can find the clues in any order. With the exception of the secret stone exposition cutscene and the last cutscene after you get all the memories, it never shouts the answer at you. I think everyone remembers the moment in their playthrough when they put it together clearly and fondly. That said, they really did stumble in two places. First, what you already said. The player can figure it out long before link can act on it, and it really takes a lot out of the main story. This is worse because even if you don't figure out the dragon part, the Zelda being in the past part is obvious. To fix it, they should've put in red herrings that could explain Zelda being in the present. Just a couple of cutscenes about her experimenting to find a way to time travel back to the future with limited success would have worked. Changing the cutscenes once you figure out Zelda is the dragon so that the four region quests focus on stopping phantom ganon rather than finding Zelda would be good too, but it's really hard for the game to ask you to show them you know it without giving away the mystery by the prompt. Maybe adding a way you can present an item of Zelda's to the dragon, which prompts the story change? Or maybe just when you find the last memory. If the climatic fight against fake zelda is that important, have her show up and fight you at the location of the last memory instead, and if you don't get it make the fight against her in the castle harder. Second one is that turning her back really makes no sense. "These ghosts show up for no reason, and they light blast her which turns her back even though the dragon transformation isn't dark magic." It's lame and so easily fixed. When I was playing through the game, I had expected that the way you would turn her back in the ending was with recall. Zelda before eating the stone stored away her time power so you could claim it on the great plateau 2.0 revive, and once you steal Ganon's secret stone in the ending, you'd be able to do it, rewinding her thousands of years to before she ate the stone. Would've been a much better ending. It would highlight Zelda as an active character who didn't just eat the stone on impulse, but planned out to give Link the best chances in the future. It would also have poetry to it, since Ganon's stone was Sonia's, making her death more heroic. The version of the story we got instead is frankly shit.

Also, the Gerudo town defense mission got my hopes up so high and smashed them so hard. It's bullshit that they encourage you to build defenses to defend, then force you to go out to the towers to finish the mission which causes your defenses to despawn. How hard would it have been to increase the despawning range for that mission? Or just change it so you have to hold out instead of abandoning the guard to take out the towers? That could've been so cool but instead it's lame.

>>1344419 >>1349679 Remember me >>1344368? I Just finished Ocarina of Time 3D! I already mentioned I played OOT back when I was a teen and I truly didn't get it, it was an awkward experience through the whole run... Still, I wanted to give the game a second chance and see if I could learn to like it the same way everyone does, so I booted up the 3DS version. How did it go? I started the game feeling a little refreshed by the graphics and the QoLs, but knowing it was the same experience as the N64 overall, I treated it as such. The music was also very sweet too, I never had a complaint about the music. It wasn't until the end of Dodongo's Cavern that I was beginning to become numb about the game, I did the child section exploring as much as I could and everything went relatively fine, but I wasn't exactly hooked... Then I made it to Forest Temple; that point was when I realize how much of a slog OOT is in general, which was one of the reasons I didn't like it the first time. However, Forest Temple and onwards was when the game started to grow on me like a slow burn, the words "first of it's kind" started to resonate and I noticed all the little things it did for being part of the industry's foundation, suddenly I was being more lenient on it's flaws and commending it more for it's virtues. I enjoyed the pacing of the dungeons, the cutscenes, the side quests, the general aesthetics, the music... It was funny to think I ditched Silksong, a game I was highly anticipating, for a game I didn't even like as much such as OOT. When I got to Spirit Temple the first time as a teen, I realized I didn't like the game... but in this playthrough, Spirit Temple was when I realized how much Ocarina of Time had grown on me, I actually liked it. I finished Shadow Temple and then Ganon, I just wanted to wrap up the adventure, rather than get the game over with. As a teen I finished the game with apathy, but just now I ended up finishing it with a smile and a little emotional, same as I was during A Link Between Worlds. Is it my favorite Zelda now? Absolutely not, but I like it more now and respect it a lot more too. It was a solid adventure and for its time I see how impressive it actually was, so I will give it that. Now I'm looking forward to play this game on a randomizer, cause I can see the potential given how much you can do with it's mechanics. ...Also, it's funny I cycled through all the main girls, liking each one over the other while completely skipping Malon out of the equation. I dunno, man, canon choice and most realistic of the whole and all, there is something about Malon that simply doesn't convince me; which is hilarious when I prefer CREMIA better AND THEY ARE PRACTICALLT THE SAME CHARACTER LMFAOOO.