>>1358732 Counterpoint: The Blue coins

>>1358795 Counterpoint: completing Mario Sunshine is not the main focus of the game. Completion wasn't a main focus in 3d Mario till Super Mario Galaxy (which is arguably even worse in this regard due to the tedium of completing the game twice) and Super Mario Galaxy 2. (Which did have a good reward) In 64, let's not pretend that getting 100 coins on every level was enjoyable. Let's not pretend getting a few one ups and a sparkle jump was a good completionist reward either.

>>1358732 >game begins >get fludd >spray peach with a hose while she meekly protests This probably is as good as it gets.

>>1358732 I remember having fun with it despite everyone I knew shitting on it at the time. Some anon suggested a big mod/romhack or something for it that I never got around to trying. I need to go look that up again and actually try it this time.

>>1358987 It's just another typical collecthon slop game like banjo kazooie

>>1358732 I was shocked to discover, years after first playing it, how "hated" this game was. Then I read about people calling that one bird level hard/impossible and suddenly it all made sense. People are retarded and should git gud. I love Sunshine to bits and no, it isn't because it was my first Mario game. It wasn't. My first Mario game was a bootleg version of Mario Bros I played on my Win95 PC. It might have been a ROM that came pre-wrapped in an emulator, actually. Anyway, Sunshine is great. It's my perfect summer game.

>>1358987 >Some anon suggested a big mod/romhack or something for it Super Mario Eclipse was what I was thinking of. I think.

I sold my copy off to buy this new "Animal Crossing" game that everyone was super hyped about. Ended up not really caring for Animal Crossing that much, and used the included memory card to make more PSO characters.

Nobody owned a Gamecube to play it

>>1358732 I have the version where the printed sleeve in the box itself is branded with a K-mart star because it came with a guidebook. I always hated that. Still do. But hey, free guidebook.

Loved it as a kid, but I did think the secret worlds were too hard. Played it when I was a teen, still loved it, difficulty was fine, did get stuck on retrying that manta ray ghost thing a few times which I don't remember having a problem with before. Its feeling about time to play it again, I think. To me it's weird that it was ever "hated".

>>1360083 >Bowser's Fury absolutely mogs it tho I would sure fucking hope so, given the difference in release dates and hardware.

>>1358850 >completing Mario Sunshine is not the main focus of the game Maybe, but it's part of the game. I always have fun 100% Mario 64. Just the thought of the blue coins makes me cringe at sunshine. And it isn't even the coins themselves, it's that you don't have a good tracker for them, so if you miss a single one, you have to do all checks. Other than that, I do like Sunshine a lot.

>>1359382 Same. Everyone I knew really liked it, but then you get faggots crying about fludd. Running around the island with fludd jet stream is fucking fun.

>>1358732 As a whole it's fine but there's so much janky parts and bullshit (especially for 100%) that it brings the whole game down. Like yeah I don't care you're le epic gamer and had no problem 100%ing it or whatever but as a kid parts like accessing the lillypad secret level, the pachinko or the village level in general were aids. The physics were so fucking jank, SM64 felt like smooth butter compared to this shit, you'd clip through shit or get pushed off platforms for no reason, this is especially egregious since a lot of levels involve moving platforms, especially the secret ones with no FLUDD where if you get pushed off for no reason you couldn't save yourself with your jetpack and you just fell like a brick. Mario without FLUDD feels so raw, in Mario 64 you had a wide range of moves you could perform but in Sunshine if you don't have FLUDD you're stuck with the weird snappy physics and like 4 moves. Even performing the spin jump is jank for no reason. Jank really is the word for this game, like even in the hotel where there is no platforming you'd have puzzles where you have to spray panels to flip them but if a drop of water touches a panel it could flip out like crazy and it was just frustrating. I remember as a kid I had to redo a whole questline of bullshit puzzles because I died near the end by falling off the map. Nothing feels smooth, it's all snappy and janky and frustrating. Easily the worst 3D Mario game.

>>1358732 It would have been enjoyable enough if the jetpack didn't trivialize any and all platforming. The rest of the gimmicks are fine, but it's still the levels without flud that play the best.

>>1360884 >lillypad secret level, the pachinko Any time I heard the music track that played in those types of levels, I knew I was in for cancer.

Sunshine definitely had its fair share of bullshit back when I replayed a few years ago, even if I obviously had an easier time compared to when I played it on the Gamecube as a kid.

>>1361382 Chuckster level isn't the worst but the fact it's mandatory to finish the game is just aids. Kids aren't gonna have the patience to align themselves perfectly with the chuckster to get thrown at the correct angle. Even as an adult it's tedious and not fun.

I played Sunshine like 2-3 years ago with a broken, screwless, duct-taped, drifting, chinese PS2 controller. My first experience of it was a huge nightmare for the controller alone, and some shines being too bullshit only made most of the experience worse. The Pachinko machine, the first Sirena Beach shines, Pianta Village as a whole, Lillypad Hell, last Pinna Park shine, Sand Bird... fucking Blue Coins. I think I have all the fair reasons to viscerally loath this game... and yet I don't. The controls were smooth and so freeform you could do a lot of stuff with them, FLUDD was fun to use, the locations and platforming were nice to look at and traverse when it wasnt unbearable. Sunshine was the most recent 3D Mario for me and I loved it way more than Mario 64 despite the bullshits simply because it was fun to immerse yourself in the world of Delfini Isle. That said, I think Sunshine's unpolishnesd is what sours the experience for most. Some levels are unreasonably hard, not in a way that makes you reflect for your mistakes, but in a way where the conditions of the game simply screw you over. If the difficulty was more reasonable and the jank wasnt so much in the way, I believe nobody would complain about it; it'd be hard still, but in a way that's fair for the player. This game was just a couple fixed and patches away from absolute glory, but at least its still fun for all its worth.

>>1359382 It basically got hated on because 64 boomers were filtered by a game that required actual platforming skill. Reminder that 64 boomers also hated all the difficult platforming in 64. >>1360031 Never heard of that. Can you send a picture? >>1360083 No it does not. Bowser's Fury has the same problem as odyssey: repetitive copy and pasted missions and lack of any interesting or memorable missions. It's fun the first time but I have no motivation to play it. When I play Sunshine I look forward to replaying all my favorite missions. >>1360300 The manta ray was probably the hardest part on my replay as well. >>1360884 I find the game controls better than 64 and Galaxy. I never really understood the complaint it was jank control wise. No it's not the worst 3d Mario. 64, 3d land, 3d world, and Odyssey are all worse. 64 is way more janky. >>1361011 64's camera was god awful. Let's not pretend it was a perfect game. >>1361382 The switch version has glitches unique to it. They used a beta build instead of the final release. Same with Galaxy. Apparently Nintendo lost the code to the final release. >>1361808 The worst levels are Pachinco machine (which you don't need to do) sand bird (which you need to do) and chuckster (which you need to do) I understand why people dislike those levels but the good still outnumbers the bad

>>1359382 >I was shocked to discover, years after first playing it, how "hated" this game was. Then I read about people calling that one bird level hard/impossible and suddenly it all made sense. Yeah I was surprised too. I played it and beat the game as a kid so it's crazy to hear others saying how that the game was "too hard".

>>1362242 A lot of people today are absolutely shit at games. There's so many times where I hear something in a game is insufferably hard only to discover it's mildly challenging.

That Chuckster (Next known as Sneedster) Secret level which was MANDATORY before Corona Mountain was just plain mean.

>>1362565 I'm not sure how that level was approved. The gimmick is shit. The only way to actually beat is by trial and error.

The reason why collectathons are becoming more relevant again with games like Super Mario Odyssey isn't because they're superior in terms of gameplay. It's because they're incredibly easy to make. Super Mario 64 itself (although I wouldn't consider it a collectathon) was made around the technical limitations of the N64. They couldn't do the linear obstacle courses they originally wanted to so they compensated by making a few open sand box levels with multiple objectives. Banjo Kazooie which was inspired by 64, chose to spam hundreds of collectables throughout their map and make collecting these things a main focus as a way to stretch their games length out and make it seem bigger. Donkey Kong 64 pushed this lazy and repetitive style of design to its limit. Instead of taking inspiration from Mario 64's mission based gameplay. More games mimicked banjo kazooie because it's much easier to make a game filled with mindless copy pasted collectables than it is to make a game with genuinely interesting missions and a word that changes somewhat with each. We've seen the resurgence of this genre recently with Super Mario Odyssey. It's obvious that the reason Nintendo chose this method of game design isn't because they thought it was right for Mario as it's completely opposed to the kind of design the other Mario games used. They chose to make Super Mario Odyssey and Bowser's Fury a collectathon because it was much easier to just copy and paste a ton of missions in a sandbox to give players the illusion the game was massive. When in reality it's a very shallow game with barely any content worth while. I wish we'd see the return of actual meaningful 3d platformers like Rayman 2, Super Mario Sunshine, Galaxy, and Crash Bandicoot.

>>1362938 The fact that you've stated so few examples is enough proof that the genre isn't particularly in a renaissance of any kind. Beside Nintendo and the ilk of Kickstarter games that are relying on nostalgia, the only real collectathon we've seen in this generation has been Astro Bot. Even then, that might not even fit since those are more linearly structured with asides where collectibles exist. I think Collectathons have value because they have to work to help the player recontextualize the space they are participating in from a number of different perspectives. They lean into the aspect of games as interactive toys because you're actively in a contained and purposely built sandbox where you try approaching the area with a different goal in mind depending on the collectible. Between the collectathon and the Open World, I would prefer the former if only because in each of those containerized worlds, there is greater density and variety of gameplay before going to the next venue / hub. I would have to ask you OP if you're a fan of Metroidvanias, because they often do the same things as collectathons, but have the added nuance of changing your gameplay with an item as opposed to how a different level/objective in M64 would change your gameplay.

Never tried emulating Sunshine before, how do you handle simulating the pressure-sensitive trigger buttons if your controller doesn't have that? I suppose you can just map a different button to half-pressing R?

Sunshine sucks ass and is a janky kuso game that was a miserable followup to 64.

>>1371925 Which is something Sunshine improved upon. >>1376105 Jank?

>>1375849 Gamecube doesn't have L2 so just bind it to that

>>1360571 Getting 99 lives does not matter since lives are virtually worthless in this game. Saving you a 10 seconds runback to whatever level you somehow game over'd on when you've finished everything is almost an insult. And meeting yoshi who give you 3 lines of dialogue before noclipping out of the game is as much of a reward as a different end screen. And as such, we can conclude that both rewards are equally as shit. But sunshine at least gave you some cool shades.

Sunshine has value because it taught Galaxy everything it shouldn't do.

>>1378121 It's funny you say that because Galaxy is basically a combination of Super Mario Sunshine and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. The way missions work is more inspired by sunshine than 64. The way each world changes with an individual mission is also building off Sunshine. The game is more Sunshine than 64

>>1378612 But the worlds do change with individual missions in 64.

>>1362121 >mommy look i replied to everyone! Look at me!

>>1378761 >too stupid to have an opinion on more than one post at a time.

>>1358732 I played both 64 and Sunshine when I was young. Sunshine had peak aesthetics where the game still looks gorgeous to this day. Every level was comfy as fuck with the tropical vacation setting and there was always something different to do in each one. Was the gameplay functionally janky? Probably. But I had enough patience to 100% it as a retarded autistic kid, the challenge was acceptable for all its limitations. Maybe the little baby zoomers complaining should get good. The game was never intended to be played by you guys. :)

>>1378769 >not patient enough to reply to posts individually >this also doesn't get you enough attention

>>1379838 What's the difference between making 8 posts in a row replying to 8 people or 1 post replying to 8 people? You autistic or something? If anything 1 post is less clutter

>>1378761 Go back to reddit.

>>1380591 The sunshine haters tend to be massive hypocrites who trash sunshine to shill worse games like banjo kazooie and Mario Odyssey. A few bad missions does not make sunshine a bad game.

The hotel and the casino were pure comfiness.

>>1380950 holy shit taste, sunshinefags are truly retarded >>1380950

>>1381095 you're a big blubbering baby.

>>1380950 >immediately pulls a strawman sunshine fags everybody

>>1381095 End of what?

>>1381095 Skill issue. I had no difficulties with slipping. Also that watermelon mission is so fucking easy lmao. Get filtered. Go play kiddy shit like Odyssey.

>>1384184 Because it's entirely subjective. You think sunshine physics are bad and slippery. I think they're right and precise.

>>1379848 >What's the difference between making 8 posts in a row replying to 8 people or 1 post replying to 8 people? Mass replying makes it annoying to follow reply chains and forces half the thread to give one post (You)'s in order for everyone to make a single reply. It's nigger-tier faggotry on the same level as name/trip fagging on 4cuvk. Not quite as offensive as samefagging.

(You) ARE going to do your annual Sunshine playthrough in the hottest week of the summer, aren't you?

>>1382535 It's niggerspeak. They're too stupid to comprehend sentence objects, so they think they can shorthand away "discussion" from a closing sentence and be taken seriously. The watermelons and lily pads were bullshit, though.

>>1362121 I don't think "not needing" to do Shines is a good argument for anything, honestly; Pachinko Machine and Lillypad Hell being optional Shines don't make them any less tolling on the overall experience, and the same goes for every single optional Shine. If I'm playing a game, I am making the most of the experience, I'm not stopping to wonder what is or what is not important because everything the game offers IS important. This is specially true if you're forming opinions about a game and sharing your thoughts about it. >the good still outnumbers the bad I may not be one to talk because I played with the worst possible controller for a 3D platformer, but I can remember half of collectable Shines ranging from "annoying" to "infuriating"... and for the record, I'm the kind of fellow to admit a skill issue, so I'm not accounting Shines I was simply a scrub at. There's a large chunk of Shines and levels that are just not fun in hindsight for one reason or another.

>>1391920 >For super mario odyssey, I do knock off points for every bad Moon it has. I, for one, hate that jump rope Moon with a passion. I never beaten it legitimately without cheating with the MARIO letters glitch. git gud

Really makes you think.

I beat it for the first time some weeks ago. Got like 110 stars. Did everything except for some 100 coin and blue coin stars, and the chuckster red coin mission. Game's good, but it's no more than good. The physics are really iffy. There's a lot of weird quirks to Mario's movement, and a lot of jank around moving platforms like in this anon's second clip >>1361382 that made the game endlessly frustrating to play. By contrast I played Vexx right before Sunshine and as mediocre as that game was I never had a problem landing pinpoint jumps with its controls. Mario's air movement is weird. His X-axis and Z-axis acceleration work by different rules. Suppose you jump from a stand-still while facing forward; if you move the control stick left or right, Mario instantly gains a set amount of momentum in that direction, and when you let go of the stick, he instantly loses it. If instead you move the control stick forward or backward, Mario gradually accelerates in that direction, and when you let go of the stick he keeps all momentum gained. If you ever need to make an adjustment on both axes at once, for instance to land a precise jump on a moving platform, this system makes that needlessly unintuitive. The hover nozzle is made tiresome to use by the game's insistence that Mario must slowly swivel around to face the direction he's trying to move to before being allowed to move in that direction. The ground controls are much too sensitive. Acceleration is practically instant and even a tiny tilt of the control stick makes him move too fast, so in some situation you end up having to make a lot of quick microadjustments like in that above clip. Also, it may just have been my controller, but it didn't feel like Mario had full 360 degree movement. If I make him run forward and slowly turn the stick left or right, it takes a while before I notice a change in his direction. And that's just the most obvious stuff I can recall from memory. This isn't a huge deal if you're just running around an open level, and I did have good fun messing around with the moveset in those parts of the game, but it's a poor fit for the more precise platforming sequences the game loves to throw at you. Outside of that, a lot of missions are a work of tedium.