>>1586479 >Because by that, you can basically turn them into anything you want as long as you have a fine sized community who shares the same thoughts I'get it what you talk nowadays, with all this thinking and political ideas, I think they try to show their politics and ideologies in video games, but in the past they used to do the same but without so much real politics. >WoW lore (yes, the Ally vs Horde lore) In WoW the lore didn't make much sense and sometimes you could get information from speculation from the devs or from reading npc and quests and when not from the books that over the years became almost mandatory. the mmo itself has books inside to read. The problem is that a lot of lore was sometimes created by the community (ally and horde) and then the devs added it, but then it went from being speculation to just another addition. It used to be more fun when it was mysterious and awesome, then it all ended up in miserable insignificant or cut quests or horrible raids. I really enjoyed the non-canonical wow roleplaying guide which had a lot of fun stuff in it. things are done on the fly back in time, not determined by a book. not everything needs to make sense, just work or be a mystery. >Yume Nikki the same thing happened with yume nikki i think that wikia fandom and communities sometimes screw up the community and that sense of lore creating more of a lore than a speculation of the nonsense of the stories that are supposed to be made that way because of lack of information, wishes or own will of the devs or because they want to add something later or they don't know what to do.

>>1586620 I don't know what they call that trope but I guess it's just political and community thinking and something influence on the game development and the other is similar to God of the gaps maybe... >Also I think we should have raided sylvanas, killed her, humiliated her and hung her head on a stake at the entrance of Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

>>1586479 >become injured >strawberry jam in your eyes >jam goes away after a little while; no longer injured That's probably my most hated with only a few seconds of thought.

Guns being peashooters vs enemies It's a GUN!

>>1586781 So many 2000s shooters had this fucking issue, what the fuck were they thinking is beyond me. That and shotguns only useful at point blank. Half Life 2 with some damage and AI mods plays like a fucking dream.

Not a trope, but more of a pet peeve of mine is when a developer states that "real life is boring". You can just tell they're urbanite retards who have never left their grey jungle.

>>1586479 I don't get how you go from something being influenced by thoughts/belief to "in the end it's all fake"

The word "trope" is pretty gay to begin with

>>1586924 >You can just tell they're urbanite retards who have never left their grey jungle. Even in an urban grey jungle you can find funny/weird shit like any city in South Florida for example. It's just nihilistic and unimaginative bullshit for non creatives that can't branch out of their own perspectives and assume their own empty lives is the same as everyone else's.

>>1587213 There's so much cool shit IRL I just don't understand how can someone voice such a retarded statement.

>>1586924 I have a particular distaste for disingenuous people that argue against any semblance of realism in games. There's so much that you can do to make a game realistic and inspired in real life, with a lot of complexity and nuance in just the right way, to then get niggers immediately retorting "BUT HAVING INVENTORY LIMITS IS BOOOOOORING", mainly from the fact that they hate being limited in games. Limitations are the heart of creativity and fun. That webm from Gaben saying that "realism isn't fun" is one of the stupidest cognitivehazards in the internet right now and so many people bite it, it profoundly annoys me with the results because now so many games are this grey, uninspired blob of nothingness.

>>1586928 If you not thinking about them, they will just poof out of existence and nothing will happen, or again, thinking they're some kind of harmless hot anime girls and they will change to be like that. It kills any kind of conflict and connection to the characters by learning this fact, as the reader. To the point you get apathy at worst, which is the writer's death wish. As a example: Why should I care about any fictional monsters if I can just use my "psychic" powers to turn them into dust? When 80% of said stories forward was how big of a deal these kind of "threat" is. Even worse if this piece of information was beating out over and over, while the writer is too much of a pussy to even show us the result for the sake of "mystery", which is very ironic. And again, it's also a lazy way to write a explanation so that you won't need to be creative about it. >>1586924 >>1587249 >>1587566 I think it's thanks to trash like Life is Strange are how some people ruined the perception of it, even Gabe himself. But yeah, it's mostly said by hacks who have zero creativity. Fucking TF2 and L4D2 are realistic than any of these uncreative slops who claims to be as such. Fucking Pokemon has more real life animals as much as fantasy ones, yes, a Rattata and a Ursaring are just cartoonish depictions of a rat and a bear. They're as ordinary as ours. You just give them Flamethrowers. Hell, I'd say that most normal types are just normal animals you encounter in the wild, just more cartoonish and stylish. But they're still the way they are depicted. Again, a Rattata is still a rat, a Radicate is just the fat one.

Speaking generally, I dislike time consumption as a metric of "content/value" or "difficulty". A game you can sink a lot of time into because it's engaging is not the same as being deliberately designed to waste your time.

I hate it when you fight some ultra-powerful boss character and beat them, only for them to then say, "Heh, not bad. But I was only using 1/1000000th of my strength!" and then run away for some contrived reason. It makes the whole thing feel pointless.

>>1587889 It's even worse if they suddenly wipe your party in one turn, and then asspull a reason to not just kill you right there and then.

I've grown to dislike crossovers, particularly the kind that don't mesh together at all. It comes off as masturbatory, with nearly all of it being tasteless fandom circlejerk and corporations baiting the kind of people who want everything they enjoy to match their eclectic merch hoard. I'm kinda okay with crossovers that actually work, like when they share the same tone, a similar setting, and already have a lot in common. But it's obnoxious when they're too lazy to commit to it and have to fuck up a character's personality to make them fit in, or make up an excuse plot like "They all got sucked into an unfamiliar world together" or "The universes are combining and making bizarre amalgamations of the landscape". By extension, I also dislike multiverse stuff, as nearly all of it is lazy writers wanting a soft reboot or a variety pack of themes to work with. Funny enough, I think YIIK is the only exception, as it's the only series I've ever seen do something meaningful with the concept.

>>1588382 Hit the nail on the head as to why I dislike modern Smash Bros. They started taking it too seriously, which is why the original 2 are the best IMO.

>>1586479 >Everything was actually built on the ruins of an ancient precursor civilization! Makes me cringe every time.

>The church is actually evil! It was fine in 90s when it was still a fresh plot twist, but everyone can see this coming from a mile away nowadays. It's actually more "le subverting le expectations" if the church is actually the main good guys.

>>1588382 I'M GONNA YIIK IT OUT

>>1588914 It's rare but I like when it's a dogmatic sect within said religion.

>>1590378 "The church is actually evil!" works best when you're playing a priest or paladin, and your faith empowers you to defeat the corrupt sect.

It's less of a story trope and more of a gameplay trope, but the idea of healers just being support bitches and sitting there and doing nothing when not healing, or only having healing kits. Or only having the job to heal. Divine magic is cool, earth elemental magic is cool, paladins and crusaders have been a thing for ages, and a priest or priestess can be trained in self defense. I don't really know where this idea even originates from. Final Fantasy always gave white mages incredibly powerful offensive spells (Glare and Holy in the first game, later games gave them aero/stone/water and more powerful versions) to use when not healing AND gave them the ability to heal undead to death. WoW could be another origin point but I'm not too familiar with that. DnD always had clerics doing smite and being melee fighters. This concept just mystifies me, and while it's somewhat dying off in recent years I wonder where it even came from in the first place. Another trope I don't like so much is the girlboss of recent years. Incredibly flawed female characters that are presented as 100% correct and right in their ways despite being awful people, sometimes even outright villains treated as heroes. Even seen this trope in some Japanese games like Tales of Arise with Shionne being an insufferable cunt yet the story or other characters never calling her out for her bullshit, but the writers did say they took Life is Strange as inspiration so maybe she's just a mirror of Chloe. >>1590378 >>1590485 Yeah that's the best way to do the trope. Or at least have the villainous turn cause a massive schism in the church that has to be dealt with. The other way it can work is the church being "evil" is just extreme methods of dealing with a potential threat or greater foe.

Cryptics work especially as well being tulpas. OP is a hackfraud and a faggot

>>1591044 What, do you have a cryptid tulpa? Is she nice?

Not entirely sure this is a "trope" but the existence of a few different branches of magic existing, only each of them does the exact same thing with a different color scheme instead of actually capitalizing on the differences in elements and being creative in the design of spells and magic. You know, magic? That thing that's beyond limitation and allows for practically anything to happen? You want item and object conjuration, intangibility, illusionary control of perception and Jedi mind tricks, enchantments that turn something into a living familiar, transmutation, blood pacts with distant ethereal powers and the unending fount of power limited only by your imagination and mastery of the material world itself? Fuck you, here's a fireball and a snowball. And maybe electricity too.

>>1588900 I actually like this trope but i think it is overutilized in vidya.

>>1588900 >-t. broccoli head

>Character dies in water >Like, not from drowning, water is just an instant death hazard What, is my character made of sugar or something?

>>1591044 t. Fatenigger

>>1588900 t. Cave Johnson

>>1588900 >t.American

>>1590865 Doctors in war were rarely issued weapons and usually heavily protected by the Geneva convention, faith healers were men of God and ascribed heavily to never doing harm and being pacifists. It's not really hard to understand where the trope comes from when 90 percent of our organized religions preach peace as a core tenet.

>>1588900 To be fair this is quite common i real life.

>>1592165 It's a constant unless you're an African nigger or an American

>>1591335 I'm willing to give some leeway for basic projectiles in magic-heavy games, but the spells should at least have visual variety and arc variety in that case, like lightning spears VS soul arrows VS fireballs in dark souls. Otherwise this trope sucks and is usually the sign of an uncreative dev or dev team. >>1592119 I guess? I don't see people citing it like that though. It's also a mentality thing in MMOs and multiplayer games too, which is the more bizarre part of the equation, especially if those games actually give you good offensive tools as a healer or support archetype/class/char/etc. Ideally priests with vows of pacifism or doctors like that that wouldn't be on the fucking front lines alongside the fighters either, outside of rare situations like combat medics or the occasional group of soldiers shipped with a priest for morale. Rather, they would be near them at best or not retreat in time. Either way the idea is lame from a gameplay perspective in video games. It can work well as a writing tool, but they need to do more than be a heal bitch in the moment-to-moment gameplay such as use buffs or aggro manipulation. Healers that can actually slap people around, with magic or otherwise, tend to be much more fun to control and have the added gameplay depth of balancing supporting oneself or allies and dealing damage. >>1592165 Yeah I don't get his beef with that one unless he's talking about hyperboria-tier civilizations. Even then, it can work well in a post-post-apocalypse setting provided the story leading up to it has tons of hints of said past civ existing.

>>1594085 >priests with vows of pacifism or doctors like that that wouldn't be on the fucking front lines alongside the fighters either, outside of rare situations like combat medics Frontline combat medics were literally throwing themselves on top of soldiers under fire during the entirety of WW2. They couldn't shoot back at all due to their own pledge to "Do no Harm" and that's a real scenario from direct conflict IRL. Parties in MMOs are literally organized like military squadrons too. In fact, they're there to combat stuff directly on the frontline just like a squad would and as you yourself mentioned, there's combat medics. That's literally how things are in civilized conflicts. I see 0 issues with having dedicated healer roles, especially in worlds where healing can keep up with direct damage and is usually much safer than throwing yourself on top of your hurt friends, as I'd bet you if we had crazy nano-tech healing we'd have real time healers in combat in pretty much just the same way. >I don't see people citing it like that though Basically all media where we have a dedicated healer, they go out of their way to mention that healing is pretty much all they can do. In fact, it's the exception to have a healer archetype that can do more than healing, and all associations are inspired heavily by our modern standards for healthcare and assistance being something of an "abnegation of yourself". >from a gameplay perspective This is more nuanced, however. I'm with you blaming shitty devs that accepted that the healer role is for women and thus they capped it of all complexity for accessibility. Clerics in Pathfinder are the shit in that they can heal, but are also versatile with their magic, but I don't really find odd to see fully focused healers as you do.

>>1586669 I'm reminded of the annoying sounds that play when your health is really low. A constant, high-pitched noise is distracting to notice while roaming around with only 1 HP left.

>>1595587 Geez, I forgot how bad this was. Super Metroid low health sound, I'm sorry for thinking you were annoying.

>>1590865 yeah clerics being relegated to healsluts and pacifists are gay. this is honestly feels more like an MMO thing but the japanese pushed this trope a lot more thru the 80s/90s, especially in vidya, i find (FF1's white mages barely have weaponry, they wear robes, they have only two offensive magics like Dia and Holy, etc). if you've played TTRPGs, you'd be shocked at how absolutely shite they are offensively in most modern RPGs, especially how OP Clerics are in most DnD editions. Hell, even Warhammer Fantasy had a class/unit called the Battle Priest who'll cave more skulls than they heal. Im not sure why they were made that way considering even Dragon Quest and Wizardry Priests are formidable back then. it's more likely the designers who followed the weakass healer tropes for the games lack any ttrpg experiences when making them i think

>>1595587 WAKE UP ANON IT'S TIME TO GET READY FOR SCHOOL

>>1587566 >BUT HAVING INVENTORY LIMITS IS BOOOOOORING It is

>>1586929 Frequently used incorrectly, likely because of TVTropes.

>>1588900 >>1594085 I like the trope when main character lives in a medieval/fantasy world, but then reader/player discovers that world characters are in is either post-apocalyptic earth or earth exists/existed in that universe, and has remnants/travelers or artefacts from our "old" current day world which may or may not exist anymore. Bonus points when characters do not have a clue about current days earth at all and for them it's all a precursor civilization or myth stuff, but it is obvious for a player. I don't know how to call this trope though.

>>1596490 Low IQ

>>1586790 > Half Life 2 with some damage and AI mods plays like a fucking dream. Recommend me some.

>>1597684 Check the Workshop Use the Rebalanced Weapons mod and follow the instructions in the page. Change the Half Life 2 game you're playing when ingame to make sure the script is on. Then get the better AI mod, that's it.

>>1586479 >choosen one trope Like whats the fucking point, if the story is rigged for your favor? Underdog hero all the fucking way!

>>1587695 >If you not thinking about them, they will just poof out of existence and nothing will happen, or again, thinking they're some kind of harmless hot anime girls and they will change to be like that. It kills any kind of conflict and connection to the characters by learning this fact, as the reader. To the point you get apathy at worst, which is the writer's death wish. I don't know dude, sounds more like you just came across an absolute dogshit implementation of the idea and it soured it for you. None of those negatives (which do suck) are implied by the base concept. >>1591335 this is mostly because of developers getting brainwashed by "design wisdom" about things needing to be balanced to be fun, which is an ethos that inherently pushes them away from making unique things because differently colored damage is way easier to equalize in power compared to actual magic. >>1598083 sadly the underdog hero usually still becomes a choosen one in all but name because not doing that requires more writing ability. You might end up even worse than the acknowledged choosen one because if you are bringing up the concept by name these days there is probably a thematic point or two about rising to the occasion in there.

>>1586638 > >>1594502

>>1586924 Spoken like an urbanite retard >swimming in reef >notice shark in the distance >it turns and swims away >such excitement >out hiking >fall and sprain ankle >backtrack and limp back to civilization in 5 real-time hours >in a video game >much fun >>1587566 If you listen to what he actually said, it's about in tradeoffs between interactivity and realism, interactivity is preferable. A stealth game without flaws in the security detail would be impossible to play. >>1587695 Looking to real life for inspiration isn't the same thing as striving for realism. The former is pretty much a necessity for anything other than abstract games, the latter needs you to carefully cherry pick and curate which parts of real life you want to emulate. >>1587695 "Influenced by human thought" doesn't mean "can change them into whatever you want if you think at them hard enough". >harmless hot anime girls >a fine sized community who shares the same thoughts as you i.e porno >>1586479 <I'm gonna change the bad guys with the power of porn You couldn't post something more reddit if you tried.

>>1605938 Forgot vid

>>1605941 This went viral on >shitter and for some reason normalfags, and I'm taking GIGA normalfags who only play GTA and sportsball, got very pissy about it.

>>1606037 It's like they WANT to go through their grueling burgerflipping jobs in their free time too!

>>1605938 >>1605941 >>1606037 Realism needs to be balanced with playability. Suspension of disbelief needs to be upheld; i don't want to ride a dragon in the next BF title, no matter how fun it might be. >>1606068 People who play power washing simulators are not humans.

>>1609143 What's your opinion on Voices of the Void? If you've played it? it's a job sim game but it's in a paranormal setting.

>>1609544 I wonder how many people know VOTV is a rip off recreation of a game called Signal Simulator? It's taken on such a life of its own I'm unsure if that's still common knowledge.

>>1609544 With my 10 minutes of google-fu sparring with the topic, I'm gonna say it seems entertaining. Being a researcher is inaccessible to enough of the population to make it an interesting job to simulate, and with the added horror/sci-fi elements it looks like it wouldn't be too boring, I might give it a try. I'm talking more about the retards that play the cooking simulator games and don't even know how to make toast. Being a researcher as depicted in the game requires dedicating several years of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to that point. Making toast requires bread, a pan, and like 10 minutes. Even easier if you have a dedicated toast-making appliance, which most people do.

>>1595587 Personally, I prefer Pokémon alarms to the forced loud heartbeat thumping in those situations.

>>1606037 The funny thing is that those games are just depicting reality in the most boring manner while still being arcade garbage. >>1609544 >>1609615 >>1609639 I'm more into something like GMOD RP Speaking of some madlads released a standalone GMOD RP game with visuals inspired by the Half Life 2 Beta. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2773280/ANEURISM_IV/

Unlocking a useful item just after finishing the game. Why some devs give you an item when you have nothing to do?

>>1605938 >"Influenced by human thought" doesn't mean "can change them into whatever you want if you think at them hard enough". You should make the argument that it doesn't ALWAYS mean, because the former are separate. If your character(s) have psychic abilities, for instance. <reddit This isn't 4/v/ nigger. >>1598187 >I don't know dude, sounds more like you just came across an absolute dogshit implementation of the idea and it soured it for you. None of those negatives (which do suck) are implied by the base concept. Yeah, the base idea can work if it's focused more on the main characters and that the creatures were some kind of boogeyman. You know, character focused where the "monsters" are reflections. Except if said "monsters" have their own civilization, culture and such. The same as ours. Even having their own personalities. You get the idea. It's a broken record at this point. And if it was just one game/book/whatever if it has that, then I would had called it shit and moved on. Except I encountered the same negatives in some of the JRPGs.

>>1610087 I like that when it's something fun for New Game+

>>1605938 >>1620944 You didn't understand what I meant at all, Half Life itself was much more grounded and "realistic" than thr majority of FPS games at the time.

>Heavily armored character >Devs decided to be faggots and make the character a cunty british female Not a single woman I've ever met in all my years on this horrible planet have EVER been strong enough to be comfortably mobile in even half the armor these characters wear. Yet I'm supposed to smile and accept that Sarah "Yew got a loicense fo that tv" Smith is able to use it easily. If bitches want me to accept them girlbossing it up in heavy armor maybe those skanks can start by being able to open their own jars and move their own furniture up flights of stairs.

>>1605941 He's correct, having the world react to the players choices does make it alot more interesting even if sometimes it's exaggerated

>>1586790 Damage sponges are shit in any game. It's not hard, it just makes an encounter with an enemy take longer. Too long in some instances. >>1621178 I'd say power armor could easily fix that, but power armor tends to look like shit with modern vidya art styles, like everything else.

>>1621212 Damage sponges are fine to bosses with a variety of movesets.

>>1586479 >You spend the game killing thousands >Get to the final boss >"I wont kill you or I will be as bad as you!"

the forced lost trope, the game forcing you to lose because their story of cucking is too important. I'm looking at you WWE 2kwhatever. Go fuck yourselves and I hope you fall into the ground. Also something that upsets me is something I've seen in Yakuza 6. You have been beaten? Of course you stand up once again even if I have just one try.

>>1622149 There's a level in Hotline Miami 2 you're not at all intended to win Withdrawal, but if you do it slightly alters the game's story.

>>1587249 What you said just reminded me of Gold and Silver. This game has so many unique pokemon on it's own, even more in the prototypes where it could be easily be used in the final game. Yet in said final, it's almost filled with Kanto mons while it's OCs are either a few in between or to end game. Why the fuck did Game Freak made such a retarded decision?

>>1622108 Boss fights are fine, especially if they have a two-stage or three-stage system to them. G-3 and G-4 Birkin in the RE2 Demake is still shit >>1622149 >the forced lost trope, the game forcing you to lose because their story of cucking is too important A few older JRPGs like to do that in the prologue. Golden Sun comes to my mind right away.

>>1622149 How did you feel about the initial post-tutorial Genichiro fight in Sekiro? It's still technically a forced loss for story purposes (you can't be named one armed wolf with two arms, after all) but winning is acknowledged in the cutscene. People generally seem to appreciate it but I have also seen arguments that it doesn't really matter because the end result doesn't change.

>>1623264 It should give you a useful item to reward such a feat. I'd rather have that than a cutscene honestly.

>>1623273 One thing that'd probably get more angry feedback than not with that is that forced-loss fights are naturally not replayable because losing progresses the game. It's not like having a single chance to get an item per NG cycle is a new or poisoned concept but it'd still be weirdly unusual because no other missable thing works that way in any of these games. i.e. you normally only miss something by doing something else before getting it or choosing to recieve an alternative, rather than because of failiure.

>>1622162 That's the one with the obese cobra guy right? Yeah he gets killed by Three Blessings instead after pocketing a disc for later investigation, and said disk ends up stopping their plans after being discovered by police who found the body. Pretty neat little bit of storytelling. >>1622149 I'm fine with this if the game acknowledges your victory in some way or even has special bad ends locked behind said victory. Like how Bravely Default 2 has the protagonist get seduced/possessed by Edna if you kill Adam early (in a fight that's even harder than his intended boss fight in the story), or how Tales of the Abyss has the cutscene after a certain forced solo fight play out differently if you win, with the main character getting disarmed and outplayed through overconfidence and then getting his ass beat instead of outright getting his ass beat. But having it just be "haha fuck you, you lose" and play the same win or lose is boring. I think the worst is giving bosses infinite health for that, especially in action games. Gets comical with a fight getting dragged out for so fucking long and ruins tension.

>>1586479 I hate the mandatory underground level with undead enemies Underground levels are usually the most dull and dreary level in the game, and undead enemies are usually the most tedious and boring enemies to fight against Mix those two and voila, you have shit

>>1661897 Not really, some catacombs and cave levels can be pretty cool, issue is that 90% of games just make it an excuse to make a lazy dark hole with reused assets.

>Game has collectibles >Collecting them all gives you no ingame reward <You got a cheevo are you not happy? FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK MICROSOFT

>character acts like a massive asshole through 90% of the game >fights your party, talks shit, steals from you, helps the big bad, etc. >oh they had a change of heart toward the end of the game >you literally cannot choose to not forgive them, you HAVE to accept them and help them because the script says so Absolute nonsense, let me hate. Give me a alternate story ending where I tell them to take a fuckin hike and I'm not punished with a bad route end because I wasn't a doormat to 1 dickhead.

>>1622143 >final boss murders literally millions >catastrophic death count, the world is forever changed >every single time they were spared prior, they went back to the same shit >you get the bad route ending if you kill them and stop the cycle I swear some of these ending must be written by the villains themselves

>>1676775 >>1676785 I'm unfamiliar with these tropes, sounds like you're talking about a specific game.

>If you kill them.. You're as bad as them.. Whenever a hack writer pulls this shit, ask them their opinion on Nuremberg, you'll quickly find they do not authentically believe that shit at all. This trope is near exclusively used to cuck their characters.

>>1677942 Same kind of people who live in gated communities but then push for open borders.

Why is it that almost every mainstream JRPG makes the most boring character their main protagonist most of the time, in many cases being a literal mute?

>>1622143 Were all 2 thousand of those enemies in a state of being unable to fight when you killed them?

>>1677981 Self insertion

>>1676775 It seems like its just a lazy way for writers to try and make the player feel accomplished or powerful because someone that was once an enemy wants to join your group instead. It would make a lot more sense for the character to be outright rejected, like you say. And it would actually be more satisfying to see that character try and change himself, maybe help the main group from the shadows, do the exact opposite of what he did up to that point to prove that he has changed. Then, and only then, does everyone consider offering him a position on the team. The only thing stopping writers from doing this is laziness, or maybe incompetence in some cases. >>1677981 Another anon beat me to it, but yeah, it is a way for players to self-insert. The character usually has just enough detail and concrete backstory to make his/her presence in the story reasonable, but beyond that, most is left to the player's imagination. And to make that easier, they don't want the character to speak for the player. Literally. Do players actually find this helpful for self-inserting? Do players even like it? I'd want to see a study or survey if there has ever been one.

>>1677747 MMOs where antagonists are reintroduced as allies in later xpacs (WoW being the biggest offender I know), Any series with a recurring antagonist that the protagonist is too much of a pussy to kill (does not count antagonists who revive after death ala Ganondorf or Sigma), others I'm probably forgetting. >>1677997 If the game would give me the chance to disarm, persuade, or avoid enemies, this wouldn't be an issue.

>>1677981 >>1678006 >>1678024 Even in that aspect fails 80% of the time, for the early times it worked because you can actually customize your party for your liking, i.e Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, and these stories are so primitive yet open-ended for the sake of your imagination. At the time where people's standards were low until the Playstation bought to stores. But after those games, the genre as a whole just looked at it's bones and just stick to it, instead of learning why it was so effective in the first place. Hell, you can keep your protagonist to be actual character while being a self-insert as long as you add the ability to actually change the character more than just names and/or stats. It's how fucking FPS games are so popular in the first place. Now, back in the day, it was excusable because at the time where everyone was trying something new, it's how some games aged poorly, because we, as gamers, didn't thought about the insane random encounter spam that was Battle Network 2, or R-E in general. It's now a excuse by hack writers to not put the effort to make it interesting, there are a lot of silent characters who are far more cool than most of RPGs, yes, even western ones are guilty for this.

>>1678100 >If the game would give me the chance to disarm, persuade, or avoid enemies It’s harder to non-lethally incapacitate or avoid 50 men going out of their way to kill you than it is to do so for one guy.

>>1605941 I get his point but I'm peeved because Half Life changed shooters forever in a way I didn't really like compared to UT or Doom

>>1677942 This is used to pacify white people

I know 8chan threads won't get archived any time soon but still a bump.

>The very end of your completion grinding is a broken powerup/item/upgrade that you will never use because there is nothing else for you to do. >Reused art assets of characters/objects for different games in the series. >The "point of no return" save block where the rest of the game is inaccessible up to a certain point. >The pity system letting you through a challenge because how dare you try to git gud at the game. >Have the ability to inflict status aliments to anything other than the most important enemies in the game. >Progress paths/items blocked by multiple progression triggers/upgrades back to back.

>>1677981 >>1678117 Western games used do this, too, and not just RPGs. Remember, until I think the first Black Ops, virtually all of the Call of Duty games had faceless mutes for protagonists, and Mason was the gimmick for that trend changing. Games like Half-Life and Halo were strange semi-exceptions, where Gordon Freeman has a face, but no voice or personality aside from comments made by other characters, and the Master Chief talks in cutscenes but has no face. At least when RPGs use voiced dialogue, it's an excuse to save money on a voice actor (or two) saying all the potential lines. Fallout 4 and the Mass Effect series have less overall dialogue options due to that. Part of the reason why it's weirder for JRPGs to do it is because the ones I've played have scenes where the protagonist could easily fucking talk like everyone else does (and there's no voiced dialogue), but then their character model will just gesture or their sprite will run in place, and then another character react and say, "What? You're saying...?"

>>1711155 >The very end of your completion grinding is a broken powerup/item/upgrade that you will never use because there is nothing else for you to do. I HATE THIS WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT?

>>1711609 >WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT? NG+(++++)

>>1597650 nah

>>1711716 Shit for brain retards can't handle this

>>1711609 >>1711696 That only works when there's a NG+ option or a secret superboss. On a similar note, I hate how JSRF just ends after you beat the final boss. You can unlock all the characters, finding all the graffiti souls and clearing all the challenges in the process, tag everything in the open world, and then there's FUCKING NOTHING. The game is dead once you 100% it. Jet Grind Radio meanwhile has an arcade style NG+ loop, so you can experience any part of the game with any character, with a scoring system to give you something to work towards even after 100%ing it. Why did they fuck that up in the sequel?

>>1712007 Because it was rushed out the ass and SEGA wasn't sure if it would sell well (it didn't).

>>1605938 >You couldn't post something more reddit if you tried. You're welcome to go back there since you brought it up you dumb nigger

>>1587249 Usually from low iq basement dwellers who don't engage with anything beyond their 3 doujins. And their opinions on anything reflect the same quality of intellect that you expect as a result

>>1605938 Man, you need to appreciate the small things in life more

>>1676785 Same reason why I dropped undertale. Fuck that game and its cryptic moral system

>>1712527 Undertale is worse, it's entirely written as a gotcha moment and it intentionally baits you into being "evil" the first time around like it's clever. It's just a stupid moral system in the first place. It came out at just the right time when it was in fashion to criticize morals in video-games, then you throw a kid inside a monster filled cave where the first thing the majority of them do is literally attack you (as in, if you do nothing you literally die), then the game chastises you at the end for killing the sad sad monsters that often tried to murder you first. God, I fucking hate tumblr and reactionary leftists, it's really hard to find a dumber breed.

>>1677942 Well there's a way to go about that trope when it's not about letting the villain off the hook but rather about the hero himself not becoming corrupted. See Lord of the Rings for the non retarded version: <'What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!' >'Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity.' <‘I am sorry,’ said Frodo. ‘But I am frightened; and I do not feel any pity for Gollum.’ >‘You have not seen him,’ Gandalf broke in. <‘No, and I don’t want to,’ said Frodo. I can’t understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? Now at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death.’ >'Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least.' In fact a running theme in LotR is the struggle between doing the good moral thing and the pragmatic thing for the cause of good at least initially. It makes total pragmatic sense to give a powerful weapon like the Ring to Gandalf or Galadriel or to some High Man like Aragorn or Denethor and have them break and throw down Sauron forever. And that's how it would begin.

>>1622312 They probably didn't want to overwhelm people with a ton of new mons, and wanted to ease them into it. Plus, Gold and Silver were technically marvels since they were experimenting with shoving all of Kanto into the post-game. A flex by the late Satoru Iwata to show off some new tech that allows faster decompression of data.

>>1713472 I don't think that critique works, when the game also offers you the Mercy option, and tells you how you don't have to actually kill your enemies to win the battle. If there was no Mercy option, and you, as a player, were forced to kill the enemies then you would have a point. That's the problem I had with Spec Ops The Line's white phosphorous scene, in that they chastise you a lot for doing it, but the game also forced you into doing it. There were no branching paths, or ways to avoid it, yet the game constantly calls you out for killing those poor, innocent NPCs civilians.

>>1713472 >the game chastises you at the end for killing the sad sad monsters that often tried to murder you first Toby got kinda assblasted by this critique, as evidenced by one of the bosses in Deltarune trying to kill you after you spare them, and calling you an idiot. In any cast, most “messages” in stories are immensely retarded when viewed through the in-universe lens <you don’t need superpowers to be a superhero >no, actually, you do need superpowers to wrestle a living tornado. No amount of kung fu or gadgets will mitigate this. >advanced sci-fi tech that doesn’t and probably can never exist is functionally indistinguishable from superpowers

>>1596490 If it's to force backtracking for no reason, it's boring. It didn't belong in Souls and I'm glad they got rid of it from Demon's to Dark Souls. But if it's to create challenge by having the player deal with limited resources before they can resupply, it's good.

>>1712496 If anything those actually have some imagination, it's the drones that consune nothing but the trendy thing in a pathetic attempt to fit in with the masses that state that kind of shit, and unfortunately there's shittons of them working in vidya companies nowadays.

>>1713745 >the game also offers you the Mercy option Yes, but the entire point is how the entire thing is built with the tone of the creator being a smartass and making fun out of you for playing games normally as if that makes him this intellectual genius, when basically everything in the game points you towards just killing things that try to kill you first. It's was a boring meta commentary back then, it's still a boring meta commentary nowadays, especially when you consider that the monsters openly attack you and tumblr sucked this game off to the point of exhaustion as if they're brilliant and toby fox is the second coming of jesus christ. Fucking bioshock had a more sensible approach to give you an open option to either be evil or be good, and it still fell into the most classic blunder of all morality dichotomies in video-games which is >being good actually reaps you the most rewards which is blatantly false in real life and entirely defeats the purpose of pretty much all moral/ethical dilemmas presented in video-games. Being good is meant to be annoying, a pain in the ass, and basically unrewarding in the short-term that games happen, if at all. Evil should be the default path, the easy and simple way out of shit is just to shoot them, and it should also be the most rewarding in pure resources, only then that would be an actual moral dilemma. In most video-games with choices, being the "good guy" when you have the option to be evil is the most rewarding path in pretty much all ways which is absurdly unrealistic and utterly annoying.

>>1714758 I don't like Undertale at all, but I think you're being a little biased on it's moral system. The game doesn't exactly "Reward" or "Punish" you for pursuing any of the available routes, none of them are presented as a narrative gotcha, specially when the game makes itself clear on the fact you have a choice between fighting and acting and you have to go out of your way to pursuit both Pacifist and Genocide; No Mercy ends up being pretty lukewarm instead, which is kinda the point since Undertale goes for the moral conundrum. Also, I have a couple issues with you painting good will on a bad light as far as gaming AND real life is concerned. 1. While I agree Good choices being favored over Evil choices is bad design by principle, I don't think favoring Evil choices is any better. What a designer/writer should strive for is a balance between the Good and the Evil, where you pick one side or the other based on which you agree with the most, with moral challenges that attempt to turn you into the opposite path and rewards that fit your gameplay style the best. Deltarune actually manages the latter pretty nicely, where playing offensive gives you rewards that will help you being more offensive, while playing pacifist gives you rewards that will help you on non-offensive ways; either way you are presented with the dilema of "which one do you prefer as a player the most?" which I think it's neat. 2. In real life, being a good or bad person is both rewarding and punishing depending on the circumstances. Sometimes you wont get your way unless you are either nice or awful to people, your actions will always have consequences and you will be rewarded accordingly in most situations. Like gaining someone's trust for being chill will make this person help you big time, or fighting your way out of a situation will make it so you don't become a target in the future... or it could be the other way around and you can be taken advantage of for being nice and get into more troubles for being awful... Point is that the world isn't as black and white to say good = lame / bad = cool. ...also, it might be just me, but when you say something like >Evil should be the default path, the easy and simple way out of shit is just to shoot them your rant kind of sounds like you don't like the moral dilema in games to begin with, whether is made poorly or not, which is fair, but... in that case, what are you even complaining about anymore?

>>1715970 Sorry, I won't go into too much detail as I'm a bit tired at the moment, but I appreciate the long post >none of them are presented as a narrative gotcha At the very end of the game flowey explains what LV stands for and very clearly makes fun of you for really thinking it meant anything else. At the very least I find that to be a "gotcha moment" even though you do have the option to be merciful the entire game. In particular, the game only really shoves in your face that you can be merciful in 2 ways, with Toriel bashing your face in that you should do that, and at each boss when you get the opportunity to be merciful, but with the generic enemies, it's not as obvious and it's very likely you'll kill at least one enemy through your first playthrough which leads flowey to be a smartass. That's what I mean by a gotcha and it's what 99% of normal playthroughs will face in the game. It's pretty much designed to do that. Delta rune did at least improve on the moral thing by making it more obvious what's the main purpose of the game, there's no gotcha anywhere from what I can see. >on evil I do like moral dilemmas, and I understand about balancing things, but most games that people suck off for being "intellectual" and "thought-provoking" aren't anywhere near as that because it's pretty obvious that they implemented things biased for good. Call it cultural, or maybe call it the fact that games are meant to be fun and make you feel good in the first place, but I find this kind of "deflection on the weight of morality" that most games do just to bias good annoying. If a game that presented choices on morality was truly to be "thought-provoking", at the very least it would lead you into a zone of discomfort where you truly have to gauge between good and evil and your own individuality as a player, not just have play pretend roleplaying and still reap a ton of rewards in whatever route you go to, just because that's kind of what games are for. >real life We're already teetering on the edge of turning this into not-videogames, but, just to leave my point of view clear: It is clear to me that being an evil person is much more individually rewarding throughout your entire life than being the goody two shoes games want you to be, but it's important to note that it's not about just being an asshole in general and just pushing people away but being strategically evil. Doing away with morals has a lot of benefits which is why we can notice a trend of certain (((individuals))) reaching positions of power, along with the correlation in sociopathy and money/power. As in, assume a smart independent being that acts in intelligent ways, as much as you could consider my own view on society as a huge commie in the sense that I just wish things were good and people were decent to each other, I have no doubts that in a society with mixed morals as our own, being an individualist bastard is the only real way to rise to the top, because the more "optimal" long-term abnegation that leads to the whole tide rising takes a lot of fucking work, whereas just being evil and reaping the rewards is quick and easy.