>>1212615 Both, it didn't help that it was story-heavy to a fault, the games themselves are extremely short without the cutscenes, MGS4 being one of the worst offenders.

>story-heavy game >guy who made the story left

Looking forward to the next part of the collection >MGS4 + TWO PSP GAMES confirmed in files already I've replayed 1-3 maybe 5-7 times each already and need to get that closure. Maybe Konami will even throw in more missions into phantom pain part 2 who knows.

It's a Konami franchise, and by and large they were in the process of producing/publishing fewer and fewer new games by the time Kojima left. They had just made Lords of Shadow 2 the year before Phantom Pain and that was the last new Castlevania game until the collection which included the Haunted Castle remake (not counting the mobile game that died). Kojima leaving didn't help matters, but overall it just fell into their overall business strategy at the time. And really now too, because they're still mostly just doing remakes, collections, and some new versions of arcade games.

it peaked with Rising and no one could reach a high like that again

>>1212615 It accomplished what it set out to do and ran its course, why are people so obsessed with zombifying and raping franchises' corpses for all eternity?

>>1213121 >ran it's course >phantom pain released unfinished No, this series still had 2-3 more entries easily. Death Stranding 1 and 2 could've easily been new metal gears instead

>>1213342 Yeah those two. Peace Walker is kino. Portable Ops is easily forgettable but it was what I remember big boss and Kaz hijinks which will be interesting to replay for me after knowing the whole story fully now. I grabbed the remasters preordered on GMG for something like 42USD instead of 66$ of gabebux but FUCK konami for needing to get a FOX or Big Boss rank to 100% this game, the reqs are retarded.

>>1213090 rising was better than what the pres gave it credit for the fact that it rests at a 80 average on metacritic goes to show journos wouldnt know a 90+ action game even if it hit them in their face

>>1214168 Platinum's even said they'd be willing to make a sequel, too bad it never happened

>>1213090 Rising was good but it technically was not part of the Metal Gear Solid series. It was a spinoff that Kojima had close supervision over, made by a different company. Some franchises can survive with spinoffs for a while, even if you take out the solid and just say "Metal Gear" I doubt that is going to happen in this case. I know I'm being very pedantic here but there are some purists who don't want the two being mixed up.

>>1212615 It's coming back. All of it. After MGSΔ we're getting MGS6 and MGR2 and MGS Master Collection Vol. 2 and Metal Gear 1+2 remake and Metal Gear Solid movie and ZOE3 and FROM collaboration mecha Metal Gear Core game. In just 2 weeks. La Li Lu Le Lo in control - Trust the plan.

>>1212615 For me it was the pivot to open world slop that ended any investment I had in it. By the time the weird zombie game came out I couldn't care anymore. Any time a jap series tries to ape a westoid design trend like open worlds it always ends badly, firstly because wanting to follow westoid trends is itself evidence of a lack of faith and innovation on the part of the developer, and secondly because japs always mimic the lowest common denominator. Jap devs are unbelievably submissive to the west when it really should be the other way around. 1-4 are still pretty cool. The shift to more and more realism hurt the series more than it helped imo. 3 and 4 can be slogs.

The first game was a novelty at the time with it's story heavy long cutscene emphasis and the political/military themes being introduced to an audience of games who by and large had never heard about most of these things before. Then it just never really went anywhere except recursively telling the same story over and over again while Kojima got further and further up his own ass and it became even more clear that he really just wanted to make movies heavily inspired by other media. (Fuck you MGS4 and your hour long cutscenes holy SHIT NIGGER YOU ARE MAKING A FUCKING VIDEOGAME) Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if Kojima had never seen Escape from New York.

>>1212615 >Kojima leaving >shit zombie game >Konami not making any new games to focus on gambling that's what happend to the franchise

>>1217830 Disagree here. Kojima clearly had bigger ideas for MGS5 and its open world. Having 360 degrees of potential entry points, drawing guards out and going in the back way, infiltrating via vehicles, traditional stealth, a whole region of recruits for you to scan. Imagine how much further they could have taken it. More wildlife, opposing factions you could aid, hinder or play against each other, undercover options like the scientist or general outfit in 3, sabotaging bases and depots to impact ones across the map.

>>1212739 yeah people easily forget that MGS 1~3 had a main writer (and probably a few others)

>>1212912 Do you have a single snack to back that up?

>>1212615 Nothing happened. There are still tons of analysis videos, memes etc. MGS 3 Delta is coming up, so the fanbase is still active and will remain so. after Delta, Konami will probably make more remakes or even sequels. >but I can't see why they couldn't make another game in the series for modern fans its not hard to see konami is play safe with metal gear for now. btw, fuck those fukushimaistherealwriter fags.

>>1212615 The question at hand really shouldn't be what happened to MGS, but rather what happened to Konami? Konami released jack and shit for about a decade. Who ever was in charge was sitting on their ass just spinning their wheels. I'm pretty sure whoever is in charge at Konami had to have been replaced relatively recently, because Konami actually hasn't been doing that bad as of recent years. They might not be doing the most impressive things right now, but they have been re-releasing games people actually like. Vol.1 of the MGS collection released in a subpar state, but they've actually fixed it and improved it. That's more than could be said for a ton of collections released over the years. Silent Hill 2 and the MGS3 Remake might be Incredibly safe bets, but they are actually things some people want to buy. Contra Operation Galuga is actually a solid enough Contra game, even if it being a Re-imagining of Contra 1 is also a safe bet. The Konami of 6-7 years ago released Metal Gear Survive, and Contra Rouge Corps, two games were it should have been obivous from their Inception that they were gonna flop simply based on the premise of. And I say that someone who kind of likes Survive, you got to be a moron to think that was a smart game to release after Kojima left Konami, there is nothing that says Cash grab more then Zombie Survival game. I think whoever is running the show at Konami now, has to be less retarded then whoever was there 10 years ago. >>1218925 The majority of the work on Peace Walker HD was already done in 2011, all they have to do is do a few touch ups like increasing the resolution, so that's going to be in Vol.2 for sure. Metal Gear Solid 4 HAS to be in Vol.2 otherwise they don't have any reason for people to buy it, nobody is going to buy that collection just for Peace Walker. The only real question is if MGS4 will have MG Online up and running. I think there is a fair chance that it will, given that's about half of MGS4's content, and Peace Walker also heavily relies on online play.

>>1218993 So it's all speculation. Copy.

>>1219046 Well I don't know what this anon >>1212912 is talking about when he says >"MGS4 + TWO PSP GAMES confirmed in files already" The most I heard about that was people looking at the meta data on the Metal Gear Website, where you can click on the Vol.1 games, but not the other games as that will be updated for the website later, so that implies MGSV might be in Vol.2 in some capacity, but I haven't heard anything about Portable ops myself.

I've recently started playing through the games, some for the first time, and just want to say that everything about Metal Gear is fucking cool and video games would be worse off without Hideo Kojima.

>>1212615 the cult of personality eclipsed the actual games

>>1212615 What more are you gonna add, it's already milked to hell and back and TPP fucking sucked apart from the gameplay but I never went to MGS for stealth gameplay mainly because there were always better alternatives, I went there for the MGS autism which Kojima has very clearly forgotten how to do, TPP severely lacks the soul the previous games had. Now with DS you can see he no longer wants to make old Hollywood with japanese craziness on top, he just wants to be modern Hollywood and wants to suck the penises of modern Hollywood actors and his writing has taken a nosedive, I wouldn't want him back if I could. So maybe, someone that understands Pre-TPP Kojima's way of doing things could helm another game but, idk... the story has been more than told.

>>1230999 How dare you say that? MGS1 was known for many things, those two things you mentioned being a part of it. It was such a dynamic and classic game. >>1231080 >The story has more than been told I have felt that way about many franchises in the past but then something happens and they get a second wind. Doom would be a good example of that.

>>1237285 Honestly it's pretty insane if you think about how much bullshit Kojima got away with. The guy made Metal Gear, then he almost does a 1:1 copy of it and calls it Metal Gear 2. Then the madman copies the framework of that and makes MGS1. I would say mgs2 is a copy of mgs1 but that's only true in story. But because nobody played the original MG1/2 in the west, MGS1 is this huge game and he's been riding on the good graces of that game ever since. Like if you think about it, the writing and what you, as a player, are forced to accept gets more whacky every game after mgs1. 2 has a fat guy on roller skates and vamp. 3 has a guy shooting bees, ocelot being a faggot meowing and shit, volgin using electricity. 4, has so much shit i don't know where to start, the bb unit as a whole, fucking vamp again, ocelot basically memeing the entire time, Meryl proposing, I'm sure I'm missing something. 5 almost tones it down but it just feels that way because there's less cutscenes but it still has a fucking flaming whale at the start, quiet mantis and liquid as a whole, then the story of venom being BB in general is stupid. Really if you think about it, the writing is all over the place and how this guy is so loved is a bit jarring because there's so much stuff that is whacky bullshit but played completely straight. I really think that if MGS1 wasn't so loved, nobody would take in the story of Death Stranding and not just laugh at him for being so stupid, but he's slowly cranked it up in each and every game.

>>1238007 >this guy is so loved is a bit jarring because there's so much stuff that is whacky bullshit but played completely straight The entire timeline of japanese shit becoming more popular in the west is people slowly accepting that it's okay to mix up your tone, and that audiences will accept outlandish things if they think they're cool or entertaining. Whether it's "he's fast!" katana unsheathing ninja fights or giant robots or big silly plots that all the characters take seriously before doing a dance routine, people eat this shit up. It's just fun. More fun than everyone trying to be serious all the fucking time.

>>1238007 there is literally nothing wrong with the "whacky writing" you stupid fag. the metal gear games are successful because they are good. >MGS1 is huge because nobody played the original MG1/2 in the west don't make me laugh

>>1219250 MGSV may just be in as a Game+DLC port for modern consoles. And a re release on PC that has worse performance, cuz, you know, they can't help themselves.

>>1243308 Why can't it go on forever and like all the other game franchises, FAGGOT? >>1243269 I wouldn't mind a perpetual Metal Gear Solid. Imagine a first person or third person shooter for it.

>>1245025 an MGS MMO could be interesting as a "perpetual Metal Gear Solid", if done correctly

>>1245195 >perpetual Metal Gear Solid What in the hell do you mean by this? Bar the PSP entries and V Metal Gear games are very specifically it's bosses,cutscenes and level design and their interactivity.

>>1245281 >What in the hell do you mean by this? ask >>1245025 , i was just quoting them

>>1212615 >What happened to this franchise? Konami loves money but hates effort so they now only make pachinko machines.

>>1215131 Thing is, Master Collection vol. 2 is obviously going to happen. Otherwise they wouldn't have called volume 1… volume 1. vol. 2 is going to have MGS 4, Peace Walker, and a re-release of 5 and Rising, with the first two on PC for the first time. It's obvious.

>>1238007 >The guy made Metal Gear, then he almost does a 1:1 copy of it and calls it Metal Gear 2. Way to out yourself as a fag who hasn't played either game. >Like if you think about it, the writing and what you, as a player, are forced to accept gets more whacky every game after mgs1. Ah yes, the grounded realism of MGS1 where you fight a floating psychic in a gas mask, a giant reskin with hallucinogenic birds, and a cyborg ninja.

>>1245109 >>1245195 >>1245281 Think about it, an action based Metal Gear Solid as a first person or third person game would make huge waves. An MMO might be good too if done correctly. There are ways to extend this no doubt, I played the first one and consider it pretty much the best, but you do have to branch out a bit if you want games to live on and appeal to modern gamers. They could also do things like prequels, spinoffs etc the possibilities are there.

>>1215131 also the final release of MGSV with a complete chapter 3, episode 51 and usable battle gear

rising was pretty good, but i'm still mad we didn't get the original intended story about how raiden was supposed to save a baby sunny gurlokovic from the PATRIOTS. the very first trailer where the game looked slower and more tactical was very promising. still, MGS1-3 and both handheld games were better than rising

>>1251147 I kind of find the comparison of if MGR is better or not to the mainline games kind of pointless, since MGR isn't even in the same genre. Aside from maybe taking issue with the writing, what use is a gameplay comparison of the main games to MGR? MGR has it's flaws, but none of which would the mainline gameplay be Relevant in a discussion of them. Most of MGR's issues would simply stem from the fact it seemed to lean to having the budget and dev time of a AA title rather than a full on AAA game. The game does a decent enough job at covering up cut corners, but it's a bit too close to a DMC4 with less back tracking and repeated bosses, than it is a Bayonetta or DMC3. I don't really care about whatever the original story would have been, because I far more prefer MGR's more light hearted/ Batshit crazy edge lord Raiden, to the "I'm Extremely depressed" MGS4 Raiden.

>>1212615 We need to go back to the past

>>1212615 Only Kojima can make a story that blends realism and insanity and not be lame. As much as I'd like a new metal gear unless kojima is involved I don't see it being the same.

>>1306581 This might sound insane, but Kojima's writing reminds me a lot of Assassin's Creed. Like, the OLD stuff, 1, 2, Brotherhood, and Revalations. Just a nice mix of realistic scenarios and corniness, while having an overarching story that kinda makes sense but not perfectly

Only Kojima can 3D scan my favourite celebrities and store them in a personal hard drive for "reference".

Do you think we'll ever get the Acid titles on PC?

>>1324109 MGS Collection vol. 2, sure.

Is it too much to hope that MGO2 will be included in Vol 2

>>1323017 >All the giant robots & goofy villains do feel like a wacky saturday morning cartoon. That's the best part.

>>1324329 I think it's likely, actually. Peace Walker Heavily relies on online play, so it would be foolish to no inculde online when so much of the game is intended to have it. So at that point just set up the Online for MGS4 as well. That's a large part of MGS4's content. Sure MGO1 wasn't included with Vol.1, but that was fairly obscure. If we were very lucky, they'd included that as well in vol. 2, but that one i'm not going to hold my breath over.

>>1218697 The game being on the PS3/Xbox 360 is probably what held it back since those systems were ancient by the time MGSV came out. That is why the open world feels so lifeless.

That shit was done with Peace Walker.

>>1212615 The old guard that reined in Kojima's pretentiousness left. And the rest is history.

Something must be done about the Unreal Engine 5 question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am0ER7iW2lo

Apparently Platinum was contracted to create the minigame you get when you save and reload with Snake in prison. Is this a spit in the face or a sign that we might get Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance 2: Even Revengeancer?

>Liquid says soldiers of the Gulf War were secretly given the Soldier Gene and that their children are his and Solid Snake's brothers and sisters https://youtu.be/Y9s5b2wQHNI?feature=shared&t=360 >my dad fought in the Gulf War before I was born >I am Solid Snake's brother You all wish you could be as cool as me.

>>1683601 >bragging about your dad being a cuck

>>1212615 The “Guy Savage” nightmare mode from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater will return in remake Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater, Konami announced. The mode is developed by Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance studio PlatinumGames. “The ‘Guy Savage’ nightmare game returns in a fully reimagined version that captures the essence of the original while providing a fresh new look from PlatinumGames,” reads the official website. “Trigger the nightmare sequence during gameplay or clear the entire story mode to unlock it as a bonus mode.” gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0fnaLwXgw

>>1240692 >don't make me laugh whatever you say Sally Serious

>>1238007 Kojima made MG2 because he heard Konami made Snake's Revenge under his nose because MG1 (at least the gimped NES port) was so popular in the west. So your musing falls apart pretty fast

>>1689522 I'll muse YOU! *unzips dick*

>>1689267 Is that Bloodborne?

so is Delta good? movement looks weird and the artstyle feels dull tbh but if it's at least as enjoyable as the OG, it's fine. maybe worth buying on a sale or pirate I hear there's some UE5 Performance Issues™ even on high end hardware. Even the PS5's dynamic resolution goes as low as 720p

>>1692628 Im definitely going to pirate when a crack is available, no way in hell am I going to spend $70 on a graphical update with a handful of minor gameplay changes Honestly looking at footage it looks mostly okay gameplay wise. Im sure actually getting my hands on it would be a different story though The UE5 shit is ridiculous though. I cant imagine why they would not use the engine MGS5 had considering it was literally built for metal gear solid games.

>>1694070 >I cant imagine why they would not use the engine MGS5 had considering it was literally built for metal gear solid games. Association with Kojima. MGS3 is probably Kojima's magnum opus, nevermind the best game Konami ever developed and published. But they severed ties with Kojima hard after he mishandled Phantom Pain. There also may be some rights fuckery over the Fox Engine licensing.

>>1694070 >Im definitely going to pirate when a crack is available It's already available. Although it's based on the "early access" edition, so idk if the real release is going to come with a patch or something. but yeah it's already pirateable

>>1692628 Delta looks interesting but it definitely drives home the point that the franchise survives on remakes and remasters. That being said it's rebooting what was an excellent game so I'm sure it will do well in sales.

OP literally made a thread because he wants every franchise to be unending and get sequels forever. What a tool.

>>1696362 I wouldn't mind "eternal franchises" if it weren't for most of them going to shit after a while

>>1696434 >I wouldn't mind water if it weren't so wet

>>1696500 I mean I think Resident Evil's still solid and shit's been running since 1996

>>1696362 Don't you think that the series deserves better than having a zombie game as it's last game? Also, I wouldn't mind having more MGS titles if they kept making them like MGS 1 and 2.

I've played Delta for a few hours. I find the incredibly sluggish character controls very irritating. It almost feels like I'm playing GTA4. It's also capped at 60fps and unlocking it causes problems. I've tried playing at 120fps, and you can't hold up enemies after CQCing them to the ground. This is more of a problem with original MGS3, but it's annoying how guards don't have to alert others around the area before a detection becomes a full alert. All guards just magically know your location if one of them spots you.

>>1696554 RE hasn't been good since 4 anon

>>1697651 To each their own, I guess.

>>1697527 Really, I would've thought the alert system from MGS2 would of been a minimum addition.

>>1212615 it ended. it was pushed past its end even. more than once.

>>1214575 I want a Revengeance 2: Probably Different Name This Time. But shit can ALWAYS go wrong.

>>1212615 I don't think Delta was worth the 70 dollarinos. Just emulate it instead

>>1703277 I mean you could've gotten the game for cheaper if you really wanted to pay for it imagine that eurofags got a 80€ pricetag, but the game was fairly easy to find for under 60€ I mean I wasn't expecting much more than what TR remastered did, is it actually worse than that? >Just emulate it instead Hell no, emulated PS2 version is turboass still to this day unless you have a very good computer and don't mind PS2 framerates and 4:3, emulated PS3 is supercomputer territory and the gayniggers over at konami made it so pîrating the PC port of the HD version deprives you of controller support (last I checked maybe some dude over at CS.RIN has that solved) >>1703143 >Really, I would've thought the alert system from MGS2 would of been a minimum addition. Not sure you're remembering the MGS2 alert system right if you think this fixes the others anon issues, sure some guards will stay back and block chokepoints but they all automagically know where you are when in alert mode, only in orange caution do they lose track of your exact position

>>1212615 metal gear was never good kojima is a hack

>>1704883 I won't say this is true but I think the story has definitely run its course by now. What more can they even do with it? The series identity is to keep being increasingly wacky and complex with all of these swerves for the sake of having swerves. You can only do this so much before it becomes too predictable or maybe too retarded to keep staying invested in it. I thought Peace Walker and MGS4 were not nearly as good as MGS 1-3. Especially MGS4 its one of the most overrated games I ever played. I didn't even play MGSV yet either. Might never end up playing it. Without Kojima forget about it I don't think I can possibly trust any future game to not be corporate slop trash.

>>1703188 Closest thing you'll get is Ninja Gaiden 4

>>1704791 >This queer can't into emulation Why are you such a little bitch?

>>1704791 use kb/m. there's a lot of aiming in MGS3 or emulate the 3DS version. mods have fixed the framerate

>>1706322 I can just fine I'm just aware of the limitation you seem to disregard for some reason, those being the following >>OG PS2 version and subsistence >patches for 60fps brings requirement way up (Zen3 / 8th gen intel + 1080ti or better for 4k res) >patch for 16:9 is broken (effects are stuck in a 4:3 square especially water reflections) >random save corruption, have to use savestates >no workaround for the lack of analog buttons >PS3 HD version >requirements through the fucking roof (12th gen intel with AVX512 / Zen4 minimum for stable 60fps throughout) >crashes often + no traditional savestates >no workaround for the lack of analog buttons >X360 HD version >requirements even higher than RPCS3 >windows only pretty much Now I kinda forgot the 3DS version true , the only downside would be potatovision because it's 3DS, if >>1706442 is correct about it running fine. >>1706442 I'm fine with gamepad aim personally (especially with how weird the mouse aim feels in the PC port), I need to finish that Foxhound run I have going sometimes got stuck post torture sequence because I forgot to blowup food stockpiles on the way in and also took the carboard box on the way in

I heard there is censorship of Eve in the remake is this true?

>>1706944 Her jiggle physics during the cave were toned down or shut off iirc

Man when Sahelanthropus stood up right on its two legs I knew kojimbo was a hack of the highest order

>>1708033 See >>1709572

>>1706944 In what way?

All I know is they removed her nips in the healing menu

>>1710260 From what I gathered looking around those are the 3 main points >Xray dance is removed replaced by a very neutered animation if you wanna be pedantic >Jiggle physics is lesser / gone (depends on who you ask and what you're looking at, to me it does look pretty much gone especially the ass) >Nerfed EVA's assets >>1710487 Does look that way, I've seen claims to the contrary but honestly after looking at the OG vs the new it's pretty clear there's a difference though technically delta is more correct as nipples don't appear on Xrays

>>1714221 Then why does it have a trigger warning before starting the game?

>>1714236 Probably for the same reason TR remastered does, because they're too lazy to truly "sanitize" but if it's easy to do they'll do it anyways.

The more I look into it the more stupid this gets, they apparently replaced several instances of "shit" by "crap" Pretty sure it's because it's SIGINT and niggers saying shit is too stereotypical

>>1715041 So what happens with the Shit Monster conversation after the Guy Savage nightmare in Groznyj Grad?

>>1715180 That's exactly the one conversation that is targeted here according to someone on the steam forums

>>1715184 Honestly, how? I remember following the pre-release stuff, and one of the points was that the original voice acting was preserved. Or is this a split mode hing?

>>1715191 Apparently they just reused and did a bit of audio work on the one instance of "crap" in that conversation to fit everywhere else where it should say "shit"

>>1715041 >Pretty sure it's because it's SIGINT and niggers saying shit is too stereotypical That's retarded

>>1692623 No, it's Guy Savage.

>>1212678 hihi

>>1715225 iirc, in the overarching story, the dystopian AI hellhole shown in 2 and 4 pretty much IS SIGINT's fault. Zero has the idea for information control and suppression, and that was done by *people* in MSGV to obscure the fact that Big Boss lived through the attack on the first MB. During that, Skull Face tortured the information of Zero's real whereabouts - Hell's Kitchen - to deliver him a package with a parasite infestation that nearly kills him on the spot. He's able to hit a panic button before falling unconscious, but his faculties slowly decline even after he's rescued. After he recovers enough to make decisions, he passes Cipher's control over to SIGINT and commissions the Patriot AI to handle information control, and pretty much just waits for death while lamenting Big Boss' near death and the schism they had over Les Infants Terribles. SIGINT develops the AI into something completely autonomous, but it also exists to propagate itself. SIGINT is a nigger. He's smart, but he did not have the forethought to realize that a self-propogating information control system would fall into information control loops that would lead to war as a commodity and the war economy. War is profitable, war keeps the information machine relevant, therefore pockets of war were constantly popping up around the world, exacerbated by the Sons of the Patriots system. There's a human element to control that he missed entirely, which Big Boss saw pretty clearly before his final defeat at Zanzibarland. This is also one of six founders of a shadow group that effectively controls the world - and in a period of slow worldwide demilitarization, was either bribed or in total agreement with the Metal Gear REX project. Ironically, that period in history was the closest that Cipher/the Patriots came to realizing the Boss' dream of a unified world.

>>1715359 >bribed or in total agreement with the Metal Gear REX project. I appreciate you adding total agreement with rex makes me see things in a whole new light. Donald Anderson being Signit and having access to infinite money from the cipher and still taking a bribe always felt so stupid to me

>>1212615 >If you ever played MGS1 on the Playstation 1, there was nothing like it. the beginning of movie-slop AAA trash among the likes of FF7. modern movie-slop games are just logical conclusions os shit likt these. games like uncharted or last of us didn't pop out of nowhere

>>1875086 >[Metal Gear Solid was] the beginning of movie-slop AAA Demonstrably false. If you're gonna point the finger, blame PCfags for kick-starting the push for "cinematic" games.

>>1875086 >-slop The irony and lack of self-awareness using a vague buzzword popularized on cuckchan to criticize anything is laughable

>>1875423 FMV games don't seem like the ones that directly lead to what we have today though. Yes, it was a similar philosophy, but that genre failed so bad it just died out and became an evolutionary dead end. I do think the other games anon posted, "cinematic platformers" were more influential on what we have today, even if not the most influential ever. I'd put more blame on point and click adventures, which very early on became excuses to tell stories rather than actually play games. And I think JRPGs deserve a lot of the blame, too, since they do the same thing. Metal Gear Solid at least has more gameplay than these, but again it seems like the fans care about the franchise more for the story than the gameplay. And its gameplay is obviously closer to things like The Last of Us than Prince of Persia, Final Fantasy VII, or any point and click adventure are. So I do still think Metal Gear Solid deserves a lot of blame. It's not the originator, but it's an important step in the timeline.

>>1875113 consoleGODS win again

>>1875779 But that's entirely different from the concept of an FMV game, like you'd see on Sega CD. Need For Speed is a racing game. Night Trap is an FMV game. And there are some blurred likes, like with Sewer Shark being an FMV shooter. It wasn't the first, but it leaned into the FMVs harder than most, as a bigger selling point. Or along those lines, the aforementioned Wing Commander, which obviously had real gameplay, but was selling itself very much on the cutscenes over the gameplay. Need for Speed wasn't selling itself on the cutscenes. They were a presentation aspect the devs obviously thought would make the game better, but it was still a racing game and you were expected to buy it for the racing. I don't see a difference between FMV games with live action vs those with animation. As you pointed out, Dragon's Lair is obviously an FMV game. The issue is when watching the videos is a bigger selling point than actually playing the game. With Dragon's Lair it was still a novel concept, so people almost didn't notice they were barely playing a game. (Plus it was hard as hell.) By the mid-'90s everyone was sick of games like that. Not sick of FMVs in general (they were obviously still a huge selling point), but sick of games where those cutscenes were the whole point. Also, the issue isn't even just with FMVs, but with too much focus on story. It's no better when the game just expects you to read reams of text. But of course this whole discussion was about FMV games, and they aren't the ones that expect you to read reams of text. The point I was trying to make is just that it's a moot point to blame the types of FMV games that flooded the Sega CD for modern trends because those genres ended up failing so hard that they didn't really continue to evolve. Unless you want to blame Night Trap for Five Nights at Freddy's, but that isn't what people are complaining about here. The point is that Uncharted and The Last of Us clearly do owe more to Metal Gear Solid than they do to Plumbers Don't Wear Ties.

>>1876013 >You mean Sega CD FMV games like Mega Race (A car combat game), Silpheed (a Shmup), Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective (A predecessor to Ace Attorney and L.A. Noire), and Mansion of Hidden Souls (A "full 3D" adventure game). You know what I meant. I even discussed how the lines can be blurry, with a Sega CD example (Sewer Shark) to make the point. I elaborated on this quite extensively. Do you think I'm trying to attack the Sega CD or something? That's not what this discussion was about. That's why your points about audio aren't relevant. The discussion was about trends that led to modern "cinematic" games. So Mega Race, Silpheed, etc. aren't an issue. I specifically argued FMVs weren't the actual problem. The issue is games that focused more on story than gameplay, so yes, Sherlock Holmes and Policenauts get closer to it. I don't know Mansion of Hidden Souls well enough but your description makes it sound like it's closer to Sherlock than Silpheed. You must not have read my entire post if you could be misunderstanding the point this badly. I didn't write off every Sega CD game that uses FMVs as not being influential, I went out of my way to differentiate between different kinds of FMV games. Obviously Silpheed, though it uses FMVs, is a shooter and not what people think of when they say "FMV game." Sherlock Holmes, on the other hand, doesn't have much going for it other than the FMVs, so it gets called an FMV game. But of course I also even went out of my way to argue that FMVs aren't even the core issue, games that aren't about gameplay is the issue. You don't need FMVs to make that type of game. Really the point I should have made was more about the FMV games which were originally made to be VHS games and then converted to run on hardware like the Sega CD (which of course was not the first or only hardware to have these types of games, but was perhaps the most famous for it). Those types of FMV games with so little gameplay that they could easily run on a glorified VHS are what people think of. Obviously PS1 games were full of FMVs, but with very few games people would think of when they hear the term "FMV," because that style, that genre, had largely died out by then.

>>1876115 >Yes, I do, in that you don't know what you're talking about aside from the memes that you've gathered about a time in gaming you never experienced nor looked into. Like all the people who legitmately believed that the PS3 "never" had any games. You're literally trying to "correct" me by making points I already made in my own post, the post you're getting mad at. Why do you think I mentioned Sewer Shark? It's the first game I had for Sega CD, and it's not precisely what I'd call an FMV game, though it approaches it. You can't even be bothered to read the posts you're replying to. By ignoring the actual points being made, you're only making yourself look like an idiot to everyone who sees this thread. >"not at all important" Who are you quoting? I even ctrl+f'd for that phrase, and it was never said in this thread until you said it just now. Are you translating my posts to another language, then translating your responses back? Is that why your comprehension of my actual points is so low? I jumped into the thread specifically in response to discussion about games that led to modern "cinematic" games, including a response blaming FMV games. I then went on to argue that it wasn't so much FMV games, for several reasons, including the reason that games don't need FMVs to focus too much on story, which is very much along the same lines as what you're saying about audio quality. But you're acting as if I'm arguing against it, when all I'm saying is that it didn't relate directly to the discussion about FMV games, which is why it wasn't referenced. >you're trying to say something along the lines of "one certain thing" being the cause of everything that came afterwards That's literally the opposite of my point. I referenced many different things, including cinematic platformers, point and click adventures, JRPGs, "FMV games," and then just games that focus more on story than gameplay in general. We practically agree, but your reading comprehension (or more likely your English comprehension) is so low that you keep acting like I'm saying the opposite of what I'm actually saying. You have to go back.

>>1875743 I'd argue that Adventure Games were the real ground zero of this, as they tended to rely heavily on atmosphere (MYST) and storyline (Gabriel Knight) to really sell their products. The puzzles weren't really why people played them, by and large, it was just expected to be there for engagement. More often than not, the puzzles followed no real sensical logic, and instead relied on moon logic particular to a group of developers which was designed specifically to befuddle customers and sell hint books or hint-line calls at $2 a minute. Once you were done with the game once, they lost all replayability - yet people still replayed them for their aforementioned storylines and atmosphere. So it's no surprise that Adventure games were one of the first real big pushes into live-action cinematics when CD-Rom drives became mass market.

>>1876218 Female Japanese Lord Farquaad?

>>1876258 Kind of looks like that, but her hair length is asymmetrical. I like her, GKII Gracie was peak Gracie. She was too much of a sarcastic ice bitch in GKI and too emotional and demanding in GKIII when she realized she couldn't fix him. GKII Gracie was still kind of a cunt at times, but she was getting into her new role and discovering her love for Gabriel, so she ends up coming off as more tsundere than outright hostile to Gabriel's playboy lifestyle. I guess a fourth game would have seen Gabriel track her down, solve his own issues, and finally give them a happy ending - but it never happened. Bitch left him out to dry. Gerde can handle the paperwork, and is pretty hot herself anyhow. He'll get over it.

>>1875086 >>1875113 Yeah I think trying to place blame on MGS for the current state of “cinematic” games is misguided. There isn't anything inherently wrong with a game trying to convey it's story in a way that at times benefits from the cinematic approach. The real issue is when the game is trying to take the cinematic part, and plant it into the game part. MGS's story took place in Cutscenes, and the codec calls, which are essentially visual novel portions. But when it's time for the gameplay to happen, it doesn't impede you playing the game. You got to skip though the cutscenes and codec calls if you wished. At the moment, I can only think of MGSV prologue being the series egregious example of scripted events not letting you play the game properly until they're over. You could say you're not intended to replay the prologue compared to the rest of the games missions, but they still put an S rank behind it. One could argue Half-Life another 1998 game would be more responsible then MGS, since there are portions where you can't progress with the game until the game goes through it's story script. That was the big example of game and story needing to happen at the same time, tho not that bad in Half-Life 1, it goes on into Half-Life 2 where you have to go through elevators, or walk through places, or be taken on the conveyor belt ride, scripted moments that aren't the actual core gameplay. You can't play the game until the characters are finished talking, and scripted events play out. This is what leads to things like walk and talk sections becoming super prevalent in the 360/PS3 era. That's the core of the problem, when such importance is placed on the story of a game, that it encroaches on the part where you the player are supposed to be directing the action. If part of a games appeal is it's story then it's not likely you're gonna complain about watching that story unfolds in cutscenes, but if you're playing a game for the gameplay, then any part where you are technically in controls, but can't actually do anything meaningful is far worse than watching a cutscene.

I never understood the concept of blaming great games for how the shitty games badly copied them. Makes no sense to me.

>>1877316 Because some people have an axe to grind with those games, and guilt by association is the easiest way to shame something without directly addressing it on its own merits.

>>1877254 >At the moment, I can only think of MGSV prologue being the series egregious example of scripted events not letting you play the game properly until they're over. Screaming Mantis is the final proper gameplay segment of 4. After that is the microwave corridor, where you play by forced crawling and button mashing with the screen split by Snake and establishing shots showing how down to the wire everything gets. Followed by Snake v Ocelot, which has a separate gameplay style.

>>1876218 This guy gets it. >>1876433 >You're post was accusing the Sega CD of having "only" FMV games No it wasn't. You don't speak English and didn't understand the post you were trying to read. There is no point in any of my posts where I said or even implied the Sega CD had only FMV games. You think someone on 8chan isn't autistic enough to love Sonic CD? But the Sega CD was well known for that genre of games, since it was the most popular hardware that could play that type of game during the brief period that that type of game was popular. This entire argument is based on you being a third world monkey that can't learn human language. >You, see:>>1876079 <That's why your points about audio aren't relevant. But here is the actual "quote" you made. >"not at all important" Those aren't the same phrases. That's not how quotation marks work, you subhuman nigger. And in this case, the two phrases don't even mean the same thing. Maybe if you spoke English, you'd realize that. >That's why your points about audio aren't relevant. Saying something isn't relevant isn't the same as arguing against it. Again, learn English. It's not relevant to the point or discussion at hand. Doesn't mean it's wrong, it's just not relevant to the other point. >you're zoning in on the fact that I mentioned FMV games and avoiding the fact that I brought up big-name stars like Mark Hamill. Those things cross over significantly. Though Vice City stars Ray Liotta and San Andreas has you fight Samuel L. Jackson, I'd hardly blame PS2 GTA for modern "cinematic" games, despite those games being immensely successful and influential. Their styles and influences were very different. >No, it's not. Not by the way you have been treating this argument, where you honed in on FMVs and ignored everything else that I said in the first place. I was interested in FMVs, and then about other things that you didn't mention but I think are more relevant than things like audio, but still contribute to the argument that it isn't purely about FMVs, but rather about what sells a game. >>1877254 >The real issue is when the game is trying to take the cinematic part, and plant it into the game part. I disagree. While that is annoying, it's only one part of the problem. Another huge part is when you have to sit there and watch a (subpar) movie for a long time before you actually get to play the game (or between gameplay sections). I tried playing MGS3, but after about an hour of nothing but cutscenes and no real gameplay (maybe a few parts walking/crawling down an outdoor hallway for a few seconds before a new cutscene starts), I gave up. I remember being doubly annoyed because you couldn't even pause the cutscenes, which I could do in games like Jak & Daxter years earlier, even though that game (and its sequels, which do focus much more on story) doesn't make you sit through more than maybe two minutes of cutscenes at a time. I don't even like MGS. Maybe I shouldn't be in this thread. But this discussion is interesting. Half-Life is also important, in that it's clearly been influential, but MGS (and its sequels) seems more popular and more influential, and especially was more popular and more influential earlier, since it was on hardware with much larger install bases. I'd have to look up sales numbers from the time to confirm though, and I'm too lazy for that. >>1877316 I don't think it's a great game. I think it's boring for not focusing on gameplay as much as story. But also, I do think it's interesting to look at good things and see how they influenced bad things later. Mario and Sonic led to tons of subpar platformers, including many that had to be animals with attitude. Sonic is clearly very responsible for Bubsy. GTA III is clearly very responsible for every game needing to become open world, which is not a trend I liked, even though I like GTA III. I referenced Jak & Daxter earlier, and I love Jak II, but I can see how that was the beginning of the end, of Naughty Dog selling out and heading down the path that eventually led to their modern games. Hell, I can trace it back to Crash Bandicoot 2, which might be my favorite game of all time. But they pussy'd out to an SJW exec and replaced Tawna with Coco. Now, Coco is mai waifu and everything, but they got rid of the big titties (even though they were clearly ironic titties, still making a lighter but still feminist point), and replaced them with some know-it-all cunt that exists just to show that girls are smarter than boys and boss you around the whole game. It's a straight line from that to The Last of Us II. >>1877419 I don't think a game leading to bad influences later means it's bad. I also don't like MGS, but I didn't come into this thread intending to argue that. Even now, when I've been forced to state it, it's not the point I'm trying to make. I don't think it leading to worse games later is what makes it boring. I do think the same basic philosophy, though, that being story over gameplay, is present in it, and it's a significant problem. Metal Gear 1 is a bit better, since it doesn't hit you over the head with the story, and lets you get straight to the gameplay, but I also think the stealth mechanics aren't actually very good in that game. But it's an originator of the genre, so I can understand and accept that. I gotta play Metal Gear 2, which I assume is much better, but I can't bring myself to suffer through the the first, even though I like the idea of it.

>>1878112 >but MGS (and its sequels) seems more popular and more influential, and especially was more popular and more influential earlier What I take issue with here is how many games can you actually think of that are just like MGS? Where there are that many cutscenes, and segments that long between gameplay? MGS has always stood out with the length of it's cutscenes. I suppose I can think of the Yakuza games, but those are JRPG's and a story heavy approach is expected in RPGs From what I can think of, the connection that might make sense if it's there at all, is going from MGS to God of War 1, because GoW does emphasize it's story and cutscenes in a similar manner to how much importance MGS does, but still GoW's story segments aren't nearly as long as what MGS goes for. The more fitting comparison GoW I think would be Oddworld Abe's Oddysee, since that game placed a lot of production value in it's pre-renderd cutscenes, and that was also a very noteworthy PS1 game. What I'm seeing is Oddword's cutscenes leading to GoW's cutscenes, but also Half-life 2 eventually leads to the tech of the 360 and PS3 being able to do what once took pre-rendered cutscenes to being able to do more and more in engine, and that leads to eventually what we see in uncharted, to then GoW 2018 where they want to do away with the line between gameplay and cutscene by having it so there is never a camera cut, and it's "All in one shot". MGS has always been popular, but I just don't see how those games are designed leading to where were are now.

>>1212615 Metal Gear Solid 1 was the worst video game I've ever played

>>1878112 >This guy gets it. I glossed over a critical point though. The stories and scenarios in adventure games tended to be much more complex, even from a basic game like the original King's Quests, than most other game genres because of how they operated mechanically. Most puzzle solutions weren't handled by the baseline mechanics, but were scripted events with unique sprite animations. Whereas in most games you'd - say, have a jump button that works regardless of where you are in the game, in an adventure game a jump would likely be a scripted event. You could jump across a gap the developers intended you to jump across, but you couldn't - say, jump from a balcony. So long as the player stayed on the rails of the narrative, it allowed developers unmatched freedom to set up scenarios which played out automatically without the player's input beyond the initial prompt. I guess you could see those as some of the first forms of in-engine cutscenes - and they were the highlights of the game. Nobody was excited about being able to walk left and right around a screen and browse the inventory - they were excited to see what would happen if they figured out the puzzle. This is also what allowed comedy games to flourish in the Adventure game genre - where it fell flat in other games - because developers were able to tightly control scripted scenarios in order to get the timing necessary for good comedy right. You didn't have to worry about the player choosing to fuck off and trying to get outside of the map for a half hour between the setup and the punchline. Once the event was prompted, the game engine took control and played out the script the developers wanted from start to finish Modern cutscenes are basically the same thing - except triggered automatically, rather than by user-prompt, and showcase scenarios that either can't be done in-engine by the player, or to give the players a cinematic treat to spice up the playthrough, or both.

>>1877316 it's sadly how people treat the trendsetters. associate the long-term damage to the industry and also others making shitty games with the trendsetter in the 7th gen everyone hated COD due to other games being COD clones, even though COD itself was good until WaW same for Assassins Creed. people hate it because other franchises and even other genres started copying the open world slop elements of AC and even the AC franchise itself dragging on too fucking long with nothing new, even though the first 3 games were good. imagine this with other franchises. if video games copied OoT for 30 years straight and even Zelda games kept milking the OoT formula, people would've HATED OoT and would've marked it as "when gaming went to shit".

>>1879197 I hate Assassin's Creed because I just hate the games.

>>1879197 Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed were never good, you just had bad taste back then. Only games I personally like are good.