defense is gay, just kill the people attacking u lol

just close your eyes and get under the blanket nigga problem gone

I have never heard any of these terms, and -slop has already been ruined by younger zoomers and gen alpha. I saw posts from Roblox kids saying fucking "oldslop" in regards to early stuff from the mid 2010s. Basically it's what happened with Pepe, Wojak and rage comics. It's going to continue getting completely run into the ground by literal children, it'll get to the point where saying -slop get similar reaction to posting Pepe post-2016 election.

>>28658 >being this disingenuous Rolling is fine, cheap spammable rolling with abundant iframes and lax equip load restrictions and no real alternative is boring. Parrying is fine, the entire game being about parrying and memorizing parry timings and hitting better parry timings is boring. Blocking is fine, blocking being front and center in a Doom game is absurd.

it's just mongoloids using -slop to troll and shit on games they hate with a ready-made word and without having to build even one single argument, and most of the time arguing in bad faith and disingenuously. fuck these retards, they ruined gaming discussion completely (even worse when you consider that discussing games is, in fact, boring) >>28682 is spot on on how this shit should work. ironically, mos of these games fall in fromsoftware's catalog, or were directly inspired by fromsoft. that studio unironically did irredemable damage to the gaming industry

>>28682 Not being disingenuous. I've seen dozens of games get called each of these terms despite having well-balanced defensive options. Sometimes even seeing the same game called multiple. Made this thread to vent that frustration a bit and also genuinely ask people who unironically use such language what they fucking want instead. >>28685 >it's just mongoloids using -slop to troll and shit on games they hate with a ready-made word and without having to build even one single argument I guess, but you see so many people using it in more "serious" non-trolling contexts that I don't think that's fully the case. As for the other stuff, I think it's bloodborne, sekiro, and DS3 that did the damage there. Demon Souls, DS1, DS2, and surprisingly Elden Ring let you take multiple approaches with each having their tradeoffs. Shields/block are good but you have to invest for it and manage stamina properly, rolling is less investment heavy build-wise but requires more fight knowledge, and parrying is massive risk for good to huge reward. That's the ideal balance at least. Elden Ring even gives you Sekiro deflects in the DLC through a long-lasting physik buff if you want to take that approach. I don't get why people jack off DS3 so much, if any game deserves "rollslop" as a title it's that one due to taking a big fat shit on greatshield builds. The Rally system in bloodborne also doesn't do nearly enough to not over-incentivize dodge spam. And sekiro is just based entirely on parries but it's more trying to be its own item, something a lot of copycats missed out on. I feel like a lot of this can be traced back to that stupid wooden shield description in Bloodborne and retards running wild with it thinking blocking was never an intended option to rely on, fire further fueled by DS3's bad balancing around shield builds, and then said philosophy started spreading to indie devs and yeah, we get this situation.

>>28685 >that studio unironically did irredemable damage to the gaming industry Never blame studios for other people copying them. I had to get over my hatred of Halo by realizing it wasn't Bungie's fault a ton of hack studios wanted to be "the next Halo", they weren't setting out to design the blueprint a lot of shooters would follow for the next decade. Halo 1 and 2 are decent sci-fi shooters. I despise what Rogue Legacy, FTL, Spelunky and Binding of Issac did to indie games by ushering in the roguelite plague, but blaming Derek Yu or Edmund McMillen for making good games is both stupid and absolves the thousands of devs who decided traditional game design is a fuck and procgen slop is better. I'm using "slop" in the traditional sense there, not internet memespeak Devs who make "soulslikes" would be aping some other genre right now had those never existed, probably either roguelites or metroidvanias. Every game adopting another game's mechanics also happened after Devil May Cry released and suddenly every game had Devil Trigger. We wouldn't be living in a paradise of originality and creativity.

>>28691 yeah, that's right too, and honestly having devs copy dmc5 rather than sekiro wouldn't have done any better. i guess devs really can't grasp how and why a game and it's main mechanics worked so well, and generally are pretty uncreative as you said with roguelites. that's what i got after playing dark souls: it was a shit action game, but a really neat and well-done adventure game, a worthy evoluton to the zelda formula. but devs (and fromsoftware too) got the lesson completely wrong and turned the genre in the worst possible direction, and even worse imo people enabled it. as usual it's a bunch of factors that contribute to enshittification, but from isn't exempt just because dark souls was good; in fact, as you said, the doubled down and drank their own poison personally i'd rather live in the dmc5 goty timeline and have everyone making shoddy clones of it, would've got more out of my favourite genre at least

>>28658 Remove i-frames from dodges and remove perfect blocking aka sekiro parry. Longer levels with less checkpoints. No checkpoint in front of the boss room. No fast travel.

>>28697 >Longer levels with less checkpoints. >No checkpoint in front of the boss room. Now this is something I wish I'd see more of, more devs incorporating the level and run-up itself into the factor of things instead of it degenerating into boss fight spectacle. Only game I've seen do something close recently is the newer Lords of the Fallen, but it gives you some items if you want to place checkpoints yourself. The game is very much beatable without them though and the boss difficulty is adjusted to compensate for that. <No fast travel This, I disagree with. I prefer limited fast travel, especially in more action-adventure games than action games. Make it a resource to manage or something incorporated directly into the level design and world lore, like Hollow Knight's tram system or the limited fast travel the N64 Zelda games have. I'm neutral on your other points. It all depends on the combat design and player toolkit if such a thing works or not. >>28691 >Never blame studios for other people copying them. Big mental blind spot of mine. I get the point though. Many times I've gotten mad at the Slay the Spire devs for causing the plague of Rougelike Deckbuilders but I need to remember it's not their fault. Still bugs me to see good concept after good concept wasted on that dreary genre, especially when it could've been used for a good card game RPG or other card game, or have been better being literally anything else. >>28693 I feel like From course corrected somewhat with Elden Ring, at least. I know a lot of anons don't like the open world stuff but it does what Breath of the Wild's concept should've been a fair bit better and corrects a lot of the retarded balance decisions of DS3 and bloodborne on the character building and gearing front, making a lot of things like pure casters, poisetankers/traders, and shield builds, even faith casters, viable or even powerful again. Also moved a lot of the power scaling back to gearing and your tools at your disposal instead of the fight knowledge side. There's some retarded bosses in there like Malenia, Maliketh, Elden Beast, and the DLC final boss but most are good to great. I also feel like I'm the only guy who likes Scadutree fragments as a system, gives you a real sense of growing power and a reason to get out and look around, kind of like pieces of heart/heart containers in Zelda games. Just like those there's enough on the main path to not struggle too badly either, until that shitfest of a final boss hits at least. Then again you have from fanboys, "influencers", and "analysts" pissing and shitting about casters being unfair for invalidating boss designs and saying anyone who used spirit ashes didn't beat the game, so I don't know what notes From is going to take from ER and its DLC. Nightreign also shows a lot of potential with things like Recluse's spellcrafting system and Guardian's power guard and defensive playstyle with damage reflection.

>>28689 >surprisingly Elden Ring let[s] you take multiple approaches Only because the game mechanics are almost as broken as Skyrim's. Shields are "viable" in the sense that stability has hyperbolic scaling and the high end shields can get pretty damn close to the 100 stability singularity while also offering near-100% mitigation. Armor is "viable" in the sense that you can stack 5+ mitigation buffs to achieve 90%+ damage resist for half a minute or so, ignore how weak poise is by using Endure instead, and still DPS so hard any boss dies before the buffs run out. Magic is "viable" in the sense that you can look up in a wiki which spells don't have the input reading flag and then the AI has no counterplay, you can just backstep and cherry tap phase 1 Malenia to death while she RP walks towards you. I could go on but you get the idea, like in Skyrim it's the player's job to find the narrow band in which a build is functional but doesn't completely demolish any semblance of challenge. >I don't get why people jack off DS3 so much Anti-DS2 circlejerking + memberries spam + very easy game due to rolling being almost free.