>>855 There may not be any need for /sffg/ any longer at all, or imageboards in general.

>>871 No we still need image boards for sure

>>741 I'm sad at how prevalent it is in progression fantasy. I understand why – it's an easy shortcut to "progress" – but it's empty. It makes things feel too dumbed down, flat, rather than a living world I want to engage with. That coupled with the fact that a good amount suffers from shitty characters, generic D&D adjacent settings, and (like you said) a lot of unearned power fantasy garbage, I just don't want to bother with it.

>>881 No, it's over for English language imageboards if 4chan doesn't come back. There will never be a highly active one again, especially not a board about books.

>>911 The key words there being highly active. We’re all still here because we don’t like our alternative options and rightfully so

>>741 In general the quality of stories in the genre are awful. There's a few good ones but most of the time the litrpg aspects don't add any value to the story. It's like how amateur authors make every fantasy a reincarnation or regression for the sake of it without having it actually any value to the story.

>/sffg/ board nuked Fuck you, bro. I wanted to see if anyone replied to my thread. Post book covers.

>>917 I doubt there would've been a single post for the entire board for the rest of the month honestly.

>>920 The BO fucked up by not posting himself and turning on IDs. Sometimes you gotta samefag to get the discussion going for others to join in.

>>791 Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser The Dying Earth series (I highly recommend skipping the third book and going on to the fourth) Both are three volumes each if you get the omnibus editions for Fafhrd and skip the third Dying Earth book.

>>922 There simply isn't enough activity to split it in two and probably won't ever be here. This is the 45th post in 6 days. That's not even 8 per day. Much of that is arguing, such as this right now, or otherwise insubstantial posting that doesn't encourage posting. Having quantity of posting isn't enough. There's little value to a match without fuel to sustain the fire. As for IDs, the biggest boards have them here, and the site culture seems to support them, along with discouragement of sameposting. Will there be enough to overcome assimilation and entirely change the established culture? I don't know.

>>930 I agree with this. Additionally, the /sffg/ thread on /lit/ was not a bastion of diverse conversation. It was mostly fantasy - little science fiction. And among fantasy, there were several subgenres and authors that solicited a lot of the posts. You can't spread discussion across an entire board with so little to go on. This thread will be enough for our current situation. Either 4chan returns and we go back, or 4chan doesn't return and this thread slowly grows.

Is it possible to make a more higher level and deep progression fantasy story? There's Reverend Insanity but I think even if it has deeper meaning, the actual writing itself is kind of simplified for web novel readers maybe that's how the translation looks.

>>932 Yes, it's possible. The problem is that those who write that sort don't tend to slum it with these newly emerging genres. It's the same with genre vs literary fiction in general. What do you think about Dungeon Crawler Carl? The author is an older guy with minor literary success, though not commercial success, from decades ago.

>>933 On a different note, I've read professionally published in magazines of translated Chinese short stories that have some elements of what you're talking about, that had a higher level of writing, or at least of translating.

>>931 Growth isn't inevitable. Dying off because it fails to reach a critical threshold of posting over time and almost everyone leaves seems more likely to me. It'll be interesting to see whether it's about 4chan itself, or about being an imageboard and it's associated ideals. The vast majority are casuals and probably won't ever hear of anywhere, let alone go there. Maybe 4chan became a dead internet website and we're now seeing the effects of all the artifice being stripped away. I have no doubt many were relieved that "you're here forever" was a lie. Even with a displayed user count for thread, it's surely considerably less. The illusions have become more difficult to sustain.

This is the last meta/argument post I'll be doing. Post #1 - 07/11/21 (first post on the board) #682 - 11/20/24 (last before 4chan death, by bump order as far as I can tell. I don't know where the other posts are.) #696 - 4/16/25 (first post after 4chan died) #937 - 4/22/25 (this post) 242 posts in 6 days. That's 40 posts per day for the entire board, not even 2 posts per hour.

Any book recommendations on fantasy as a concept? Reading pic related and finding it really interesting. Anything that connects fantasy fiction to sociology or philosophy.

>>939 Do not read, he doesn't fuck the cat

>>945 then what's the point?

>>917 Deserved tbh

so this is where you niggers are

Anybody have the list of milf books one anon made?

>>952 Spoonfeeding service activated https://warosu.org/lit/thread/23588301#p23590358 Spoonfeeding service completed. You're welcome. This concludes your free trial. Please learn how to use the archive yourself, save your preferred materials, or pay for a premium spoonfeeding subscription.

>>952 The official Mom Protagonist SFF List. I apologize for the lengthy (ie autistic) list. I may update it later. >Caught in Crystal (1987) by Patricia Wrede >The Interior Life (1990) by Katherine Blake >Raven's Duology (2004-2005) by Patricia Briggs >Wolfblade Trilogy (2004-2005) by Jennifer Fallon >Bridge of D'Arnath (2004-2005) by Carol Berg >The World Gates Trilogy (2004-2005) By Holly Lisle, She wrote Minerva Wakes and the Arhel trilogy, those two books also have mom mc >Dragonsbane (1985) by Barbara Hambly >Paladin of Souls and Vorkosigan saga by Lois McMaster Bujold >Sunrunner Saga (1988-1993) by Melanie Rawn starting from book the mc has a son and he becomes the secondary mc >The Empire Trilogy (1987-1992) by Janny Wurts >Liveship Traders (1998-200) by Robin Hobb >Birthgrave (1975-1978) by Tanith Lee >Heart of Bronze (1997-1998) by Matthew Stover >Karavans Trilogy (2006-2012) by Jennifer Roberson >Skinwalkers (2014) by Wendy N. Wagner, about an ex-pirate Axe wielding mom! >Frostfell (2006) by Mark Sehestedt >Legacy of Steel (1998) by Mary H. Herbert >The Traitor Spy Trilogy (2010-2012) by Trudi Canavan >Sevenwaters Trilogy (1999-2001) by Juliet Marillier >Blood songs (1987, third book in the Frost trilogy) by Robin Wayne Bailey >Bloodsong Trilogy (1985-1986) by Asa Drake >Gypsies (1988) by Robert Charles Wilson >Child of Time (1991) by Robert Silverberg >The Wayfarer Redemption (1995-1999) by Sara Douglass, by book three almost every character is pregnant, after book three there's a 20 year time-skip so all the mcs have grown-up children >The Forgotten Beasts of Eld (1974) by Patricia A. McKillip >The Keys to Paradise Trilogy (1987-1988) by Robert Vardeman, trio of mcs all of the same importance, veterans of the Trans-War that ravaged the country, one of them is a cat-girl who saves a slave kid and adopts him >Bitter Angels (2009) by C.L Anderson >The Great Wheel (1987, book three of the Tredana Trilogy) by Joyce Ballou Gregorian >Daughter of the Bear King (1987) by Eleanor Arnason >Night-Threads series by Ru Emerson, portal fantasy about a druggie mom, her sister and her teenage son. >Frostflower adn Thorn (1980) Phyllis Ann Karr >Fifth Millenium by S.M. Stirling, Shirley Meier, and Karen Wehrstein >Spellsong Cycle (1997-2002) by L.E. Modesitt Jr >The Sword of Lyric by Sharon Hinck, christian portal fantasy about a soccer mom and her son fighting against Not-Satan >Cradle of Sea and Soill (2020) by Bernie Anes Paz >Boneshaker (2009) Cherie Priest >The Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson, absolute grimdark kino but like most of Donaldson's work it has a happy ending, the main characters just have to go through hell to get it. >Dragon Gate by Linsay Buroker, a six book epic about a Mother-son duo >Memories of Ice (2001 Book 3 of Malazan Book of the Fallen) by Steven Erikson, thanks to the kind anon who mentioned it in the last thread. >To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987) by Robert Heinlein >The Keeper's Six by Kate Elliott Belgariad has an aunt/nephew

>>945 I don't think Dean Ing lets his humans do the Kzinti in "Cathouse" either. Which is a strange book anyway, doesn't seem to have a lot of connexion with the rest of the Niven-Pournelle universe Ing's playing in. Looks like a book Ing was writing on the side but figured he could get more eyeballs if he brought it into the Kzin universe.

>>953 oh ffs, the "reverend insanity" spammer is in that thread too. I eventually started reporting those comments. glad he's not here (yet)

Vardeman got with Victor Milan in the "War of Powers" series, he put a catgirl attendant in an orgy in like the fifth book or something. WoP was probably Vardeman's best work, I've tried some of his others and never got far.

>>709 (OP) Most sci fi books are stupid because they still cling to the idea of a hero protagonist. Are there any books that are more realistic where individuals have very small contributions but it follows larger trends in humans as a species?

>>1016 Foundation series by Isaac Asimov.

>>1017 To add to what Anon said. I remember in the first books there were these occasional interruptions of a past very-important historian discussing observed social trends, these trends were being observed and repeated in the present of the Foundation. The only exception to such a trend was a biological factor in future humanity unpredictable to the historian but very impactful to the setting. I think this comparison-and-explanation wasn't used as much in latter books but never entirely abandoned.

I finally finished The Peacekeeper Initiative by Glynn Stewart. Something about his style of writing is making reading it feel like a chore, though I can't specifically point out any big flaws in the storytelling. There's nothing exceptionally great about the prose, but it does its job of delivering the story. Workmanlike is how I would describe it. Most characters end up feeling distant and not particularly memorable. There's a man that appears on almost every page but the only thing I can tell you about his personality is that he's African and yes, he's black, as the author remembers to specifically mention two or three times in each novel. Other than that he's just a voice that reports intel to the captain, like most of the other characters. Besides the captain MC, only his diplomat friend and the Irish alcoholic leader of the fighter squadron get fleshed out at all, but I wouldn't call any of them particularly memorable either. But the characters aren't really the focus. What I like about Stewart's writing is that he obviously takes his sci-fi worldbuilding, space combat tactics and physics seriously. No, I wouldn't exactly call it hard SF — there's a number of magic sci-fi technologies that enable a very familiar feeling space opera setting, not just one or two necessary evil "big lies" — his spaceships have not just FTL drives, but also artificial gravity generation, inertia dampeners and shields — FTL communication also exists in the setting, although circumstances force the protagonists to lose access to it in the first book, meaning in the second book they have to rely on FTL drones to act as couriers for interstellar comms. It does feel like the author did his world-building in reverse, instead of defining a few rules for his setting and projecting the likely outcomes, he looked at a generic space opera like Star Trek, and worked backwards to figure out a minimal amount of fudging the science to get something resembling that, without going full handwave mode. All the technologies and their consequences are well thought out, and their capabilities and limitations defined. The gravity tech performs double duty to not just make space travel comfortable, but also to form the basis for a shield technology that relies on a shear in time-space to repel incoming beams and projectiles. And FTL does not only enable interstellar travel, but is also slapped on missiles to allow them to "skip" past shields and detonate warheads inside enemy ships. Even better, distances, velocities and accelerations are all defined in real world units, at all times, for all ships, especially during battles. Cowards are the sci-fi authors who don't do this. There are no ships traveling at "speed of plot" here. ETA's for ships arriving from FTL jumps are tracked. Exact numbers of missiles launched in volleys and their yields are also mentioned. Looking at the impressive size of the author's bibliography, he is obviously prolific. But I suspect his output could be better if he spent more time polishing and remembered to give his characters personalities.

This novel is a weird mish-mash of genres and disparate ideas. It feels like it could have been at least five different novels, but instead it has all these plots running in parallel. The main premise is that in an alternate history Britain an inventor builds a machine that creates portals into fictional works, allowing real people to step inside books and fictional characters to enter the real world — then, a league of criminals led by a maniacal supervillain steals the machine and starts blackmailing the world by threatening to kill beloved characters from literature. Enter Thursday Next, the literary detective whose job becomes to rescue the kidnapped Jane Eyre, return her to the book she came from and prevent Super Evil Psychoman (not his actual name, but might as well be) from causing further damage to the classic novel. And that's just what the main story is about, the side stories are almost equally wacky. If the reality-hopping portals didn't make things confusing enough, there's time travel too. Throw in vampires and werewolves because why not. An interesting choice is making the book people conscious of the fact that they're fictional characters following a predetermined script. I didn't expect it, but it may have made things more interesting by introducing some twists to the plot's science fiction logic. The book world follows its own rules. The characters are locked into doing whatever the writing on the pages says, but only when they're under the author's narrative focus. It's convenient that Jane Eyre is written in first person, as that means the other characters are free to do whatever they wish when they're not seen or heard by Jane. This limited free will proves useful as the other book characters can help Thursday Next plot against the interloping supervillain behind the scenes to protect the narrative of their own book, unbeknownst to the reader. Make no mistake, this book is total slop. But it's entertaining at the very least, and sometimes manages to elicit a sensible chuckle, though I would not crown the author a master of comedy. I think the one gag I laughed the hardest at was one of his villains literally being named Jack Schitt. His approach to humor is basically flood the zone, sling enough absurd shit on the page at a fast enough pace and keep escalating and some of it is bound to be funny.

It's somewhat impossible to talk about this novel without also talking about the long shadow cast by the 1972 film adaptation by Andrei Tarkovsky. Whenever I bring up the movie in discussion, I unmask one or two Lem fans who always, without fail, bring up how the book is better. I politely nod and mumble about how I should read it, while internally recoiling in skepticism. That Stanislaw Lem? The author of the Cyberiad? Now, having finally read it, I can confirm my gut feeling was right. I should have known I was being memed. Now, it's by all means, not a bad story. But I wouldn't really call it "better". It's certainly different from the movie, which took a lot of liberties, partially due to budget constraints, and 1970s special effects technology being entirely insufficient to portray the strangeness of the alien ocean, or the floating station levitating close to its surface. The filmmakers solved it by turning the station into a more conventional orbiting outpost and simply ignoring the pages and pages of autistic descriptions of the bizarre forms spewed forth by the alien intelligence's strange creative powers (aside from the one part with the pilot describing his encounter with the giant "form" in front of a committee, which is one of the most powerful moments in the movie, despite it just being a guy monologuing in front of a camera). It turns out none of the core story requires the station to be physically next to the ocean, anyhow. I always wondered how the visitors reached the station from the planet surface, and expected the book to be more grounded somehow, but how they got inside is left as a mystery here, as well. I also prefer the movie's bleaker, more enigmatic ending note. I have to voice how much I dislike the whole concept of the station being held aloft by anti-gravity repulsor lifts. It's some kind of a cousin of the Cloud City. Come on, it's a planet both with an ocean and an atmosphere. If this had been written by Arthur C. Clarke, the station would have been either some kind of a blimp, or just a regular boat. But no, we must smuggle antigravity technology into a story that doesn't need it. Of course, the movie kept the station's disc shape, implying generated gravity, but that's a pretty common trope in the live action medium and they obviously didn't have the budget for a 2001 style rotating wheel station. It's easier to ignore. While Lem has a talent for describing the strange in visually evocative ways, I feel in the case of this story, he ends up wasting the reader's time and patience trying to explain something that fundamentally cannot be explained. The entire premise of Solaris is absurd. A sentient ocean is absurd. An alien intelligence creating homunculi from the memories of a station crew is absurd. When this is the matter your story is composed of, it's best to not even try to pretend it's scientific. It's basically a spooky ghost story in space. When stripped of Tarkovsky's genius cinematography, it's an above average Star Trek episode. Using fewer words makes the mystery more compelling.

I appreciate your reviews, anon.