I paid for the fan first screening. It's ok until the ending, The action is sound, and it just feels like Batman Begins combined with Se7en, and a slight 90's grunge emo blend more than goth. The entire plot before cam filming's of the screens from China come out on the 4th: The film opens with Ave Maria which is the Riddler's theme, the Riddler stalks the mayor, looks at his family for 3 minutes, pops up behind him, the movie goes quiet and he SCREAMS and kills the mayor with an ice pick. The movie has a pretty good opening on Halloween night about Batman describing how he became a symbol of fear, and 2 criminals shit themselves at the very idea of Batman being in shadows, and one gets run over by a cop car because they stand in the road. The third group is the skull gang and they try beating up an asian guy, Batman comes in and beats them all up. He doesn't go by Batman he goes by THE Vengance He gets called to see the Riddler's crime scene. The police apart from Lieutenant Gordon, not commissioner yet all hate him, Batman and Alfred decode the letter he gives them to "Drive" and find a literal "Thumb Drive" with the mayors thumb in his car. Gordon's actor despite being a niggerxD is a good actor, and does his job well. The thumb drive hacks into Gordon's computer because I guess simply attaching malicious files make them auto download now. Gordon's account sends incriminating photos of the mayor at the iceberg lounge. Batman goes to the iceberg lounge 4 times, most fights happen there. He meets Collin Farrell's Penguin, and Irish man pretending to be Italian. Penguin simply tells him he knows nothing, Batman finds Selina Kyle too and follows her, she's in some sort of borderline lesbian relationship supposed friendship again like TDKR but this time after Batman stops her from robbing the mayors home her not girlfriend is killed by Falcone and literal who cop who Batman beat the fuck out of in the club. THE Batman then fails to stop Riddler from killing literal who random police officer guy who was Lieutenant before Black Gordon who I will now call Bordon, and finds this rat maze contraption he was chained in. Batman and Alfred decode shit again and get "Winged Rat" who they believe to be the Penguin. At some point before this Batman and Selina Kyle, the CatBURGULAR, work together, Batman sends her in and they spy on people because Batman uses these special advanced lenses that record everything in 4k video and uses them every single night. So he watches her interrogate the DA who isn't Harveeyyyyy about the Riddler, who is looking for a rat, then she follows a random bitch and gets caught by Falcone, who is her fadda, he made her, and so she runs away. Riddler follows the DA and beats the piss out of him again, and straps a bomb to him then forces him to drive into a funeral the next morning where Bruce meets Falcone. Bruce stops the car from killing anyone, but tries to undo the bomb while going on quiz show on twitch with the Riddler, but the DA says if he snitches his family is dead so he chooses to die and Batman jobs to this small explosion, and gets taken by the GCPD, almost gets unmasked, and punches Bordon to run away. This is the only moment in the movie that he flies, he jumps off using a wing suit, tries flying under a bus, everyone in the theater clapped, and he crashes under the bridge, into a bus, down a few cars, and slams into the street like a retard. He gets up crying and limps away. Batman and Bordon then go after the Penguin, but then Catburglar is there, and she steals money, and then Batman turns on the Batmobile, more claps, but then it fails to turn on immediately, Penguin despite having more firepower, runs into his car and drive away, and Batman goes after him, they drive into the high way, both almost crashing, until there's a 3 truck, 15 car collision that most certainly killed at least 30 people Final Destination style, but fuck saving the innocents, Batman just ramps off that shit, and after flying for 30 seconds straight he jumps out, hits the Penguin, sends him flying, and then walks to him. It turns out he isn't the rat, Penguin calls Batman and Bordon retards, and they leave him cuffed in the street. Batman and Catburgular kiss, on a roof top after she asks to see him. She says they need to work together to find her not girlfriends killer. She also does some gay shit like saying white privilege. Batman and Bordon visit a orphanage after they contact Riddler after they catch Penguin, he calls them retards but he give them a clue to go to the orphanage anyway where they find out Bruce Wayne is the next target. As this happens Alfred opens a Ted Kaczynski mail bomb and gets blown up. Riddler reveals Falcone helped Bruce's fadda kills a journalist trying to expose his mudda's mental illness. Batman tells Alfred he lied after getting out of a coma like the ungrateful little shit he is. He then goes to meet Catburgular who tells him she will kill him for killing her not girlfriend who she totally wasn't fucking before fucking him, and her own fadda, Falcone too for killing her girl toy. Batman tells her "Noooo." and she leaves and kicks literal who cop off the roof but Batman saves him and goes after her. She tries killing Falcone, but Batman goes back to the iceberg again, cuts the power, and takes a machine gun to the chest pointblank and walks it off. This will be important later as he later jobs to some mook with a shotgun using birdshot that should totally not down him even pointblank if he withstood a fucking machine gun but whatever. He stops Catburgular from killing her fadda and takes him outside to the police. Penguin tells Falcone he's dead, the police tell him he's dead, Selina is like "I hope he's dead." and then Riddler comes out of nowhere and snipes the fucker from less than a block away because he was always there and Batman nor the police ever thought that surely if he took the photos from THAT EXACT ANGLE HE WOULD BE THERE. Turns out Falcone is the rat, because he snitched to get Maroni, his competition arrested. Riddler goes to get coffee, and gets arrested, he never get the pumpkin pie he ordered. Batman does the retarded thing and doesn't investigate the area in depth, he just goes to see Riddler in Arkham. At this point the movie goes off the rails hard. Riddler is apparently a image board user and organized a major terrorist attack on the city and convinced multiple Anon's to assassinate all the mayoral candidates because government EEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVILLLLLLL. For some reason, despite the real life FBI monitoring ALL image boards since forever 24/7, none of them ever caught on to this literal webm he posted where he dictates his entire fucking plan to bomb the Gotham seawall and flood the city because...? and he does so openly with everyone, and must have gotten a minimum of 400 views because later like 40 people help carry out his plan just for teh lulz with no payment, and no one bothered reporting him, not even the site owner or admin of whatever image board he uses that might be held liable for these attacks the way Jim was because ....? Batman despite being an autist also doesn't use imageboards and has never heard of this and didn't even bother seeing the video left on his desktop for him and the cops to find before leaving. Riddler says he did all this because as an orphan, the fund Thomas Wayne set up was just used by the mob to launder money and the orphans were left to die, but he's flooding the entire city anyway because fuck you.

Riddler then goes absolutely apeshit and starts singing Ave Maria out loud in a scene that had the whole theater laughing and starts throwing a giant autistic temper tantrum because Bruce wants to stop his assassination on the mayor and flood, but Riddler thought he would help him. As it turns out Batman figured out none of the above yet, and Riddler stops and just laughs at him for being a normalfag despite LITERALLY LEAVING THE VIDEO IN FRONT OF THE COPS BUT NO ONE BOTHERED CHECKING THE VIDEO NOT EVEN THE POLICE Batman quickly runs back to the apartment, finds the video of Riddler literally explaining to all of 8chan that he is about to commit a terrorist attack, and lays out his plan word for word, Batman also uncovers a giant fuck off map under the carpet of the locations for the bombs, as he does they go off anyway and the city floods. Batman failed to stop Riddler's biggest part of his plan. Despite that Batman goes to stop the mayor candidates assassination and fails to help all other 19 million people in Goatham from the Riddler Anon's, They manage to shoot the negress candidate anyway, Bordon and Catburgular are there too. Batman comes in through the roof and starts beating people up. He then jobs to some mook with a 80 year old shotgun he probably brought from home, and almost passes out until the mook attacks Catwaifu, at which point he injects himself with literal adrenaline venom or whatever and almost beats this random /pol/ user over his bisexual non white girlfriend. Batman stops himself. When asked who they are the goons just reply with "Vengeance" and Batman has an "Ohhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit." moment and realizes he needs to help people instead of beating random criminals on the street. He does this by preventing a lamp from electrocuting them by cutting the wire and electrocuting himself, and then only helps like 13 people including the negress mayor by leading them through like waist deep water in the dark to higher ground that they would have found themselves even in the dark just by walking or swimming, but this is impressive somehow and he is considered a hero I guess. Riddler is still having an autistic freak out in Arkham flailing his arms around, crying, and jumping on his bed like a child because Batman foiled his plan but not really. Joker appears and goes "Shut up retard ur plan worked lmao." and tells him "What's worth more the less you have?" and Riddler says "A friend." And Joker says "A friend in need is a friend indeed." And both start laughing. THE Batman and Catburgular are now on a random roof top talking and she asks him to become her boyfriend and go to Bludhaven with her, but Batman goes "No way fag." because he's the cool smegma male incel who is literally me. Catwoman now left with no girlfriend or boyfriend, becomes a bitter, fatherless femcel catlady and drives in the opposite direction. And so ends THE Incel. Despite the glaring plot holes I thought it was a good movie and worth the money. I mean it has less plot holes than The Dark Knight and that shit is often considered the greatest comic book movie of all time, but if you look up the Cinemasins (faggot I know but he makes good points) video plus the 20 minute long "Reasons why The Dark Knight is Overrated." you'll see that the Nolan movies all actually have far more plot holes than this shit did. I honestly think it's just become part of Batman movies to have awful plot holes and surface level philosophy. It's just a curse they must all have no matter who directs them. So those blatant problems aside, it's a very good movie, or as good as a Batman movie can be given the aforementioned circumstances that force all Batman movies forever until the end of time to never make any sense no matter how grounded and realistic, and I ultimately liked it.

>>23614 >>23613 This sounds fucking retarded. They made the villain a literal racist gamergate anon on the ebils imageboards for nazi frogs. Just Catwoman saying white privilege & Batman pathetically flying then crashing were bad enough but geez.

>>23620 Yeah but what else can you expect from Jewllywood, at least now Riddler is a canon 8chan user.

>>23613 >>23614 I... would not want to watch this. Besides the virtue signalling BS, it sounds so schizophrenic, it should be on a prescription for at least 3 really strong drugs.

The China camrips are out, if you're not a redditor who doesn't know where to go to find them they're available to watch now. Two things I forgot to mention in my spoilers: Riddler's keikaku video was password protected, but it was never explained how 8chan users are able to get the password but not the cops. I forgot to mention that for the rooftop scene Selina was talking about killing Kenzie, the random cop who killed her dyke roommate with benefits.

>>23613 >>23614 Why the Hell does this sound like someone just ripped off the story arcs from the manga GTO? To provide some background on the manga, the premise is that ex-biker delinquent Onidzuka decides that he wants to become a teacher for the purposes of losing his virginity. In the process, he's given the class that have caused their previous instructors to commit suicide, and manages to turn them around into the best class in the entire schools. And literally every single villain of every single arc falls into one of the two categories: >A teen who's lost all hope in adults and wants to show the world that the adults are the reason why kids are so fucked up OR... >An autistic instructor/administrator who still has a childish view of the world, and manage to take the lessons they learned in school and completely distort the meaning of them

>>23641 Batman is a virgin who becomes a hero, and Riddler is a autist who lost all hope and show the world that adults are reason kids are so fucked up I guess.

>>23641 >Hell does this sound like someone just ripped off Because you're an obsessed autist.

Was better than I thought. The focus on Gotham's perception of Batman and the plot trying to position him to be regarded a bit more positively by the city brings to mind the faults of Snyder's handling of Superman (how was anybody supposed to care about Superman dying if the audience doesn't get to see him do enough Superman shit?). Batman saving civvies at the end of the film might be cheesy to some, but it serves this exact purpose. Falcone being Selina's dad and the crack about white privilege were cringy but they're negligible. Riddler being too crazy to realize Bruce Wayne and Batman are one and the same was hilarious.

>>23613 The Batman prequel novel implies it’s the same universe as joker 2019. It doesn’t sound like there a lot of thing that will contradict the Batman being the same universe as the joker expect one.

>>23646 Yeah, but Baryy Kehogan can still be like, Arthur Fleck and Harley's son or something.

>First people batman beats up are multicultural racist gang of black and white thugs that beat up Asians for fun >#Stopasianhate backfired so badly they have to make up multicultural gangs to cover up black on Asians crime waves Are we going back to 80s multicultural gangs boogeyman to cover up black crime again?

>>23648 Yes, we're going back to multiracial movie gangs, a veritable Burger King kids club of thuggery.

>>23649 Can't wait to see Batgirl fight the cripple's of the goon squad because Bruce doesn't wanna get cancelled.

>>23636 I expected so little considering the past attempts of live action Batman getting the character all wrong. But this really takes the cake. Batman isn't even a good detective in this movie that's supposed to be more of a mystery.

>>23613 >>23614 Wait, isn't it set in the Joker universe? did it jump directly to the 2000s instead of doing a retro 80s or 90s batman?

>>23766 It's not confirmed to be set in Joker verse, Barry Keoghan is playing the joker this time, and unless Phoenix's Joker is the type that dies but inspires others to continue his work, then no.

>>23767 Shame, I heard from someone that this Batman was taking Venom so I was hoping for a comic accurate Bane in a sequel. And I'm going to see it this Friday with some friends in the cinema, even if I'm just doing it for social interactions.

>>23768 Oh, and forgot to mention. What's with all these Batman villains becoming some sort of fanatic rightwing cult leaders instead of just messed up mob bosses with certain gimmicks and crews following the colour like gangs from The Warriors.

>>23769 Lazy writing trying to ape Nolan's head up the ass pretentious philosophy major bullshit.

>>23770 They try to ruin everything about Batman like Killing Joke ruined the Joker.

>>23771 The Killing Joke isn't a bad story. I like giving Joker more a concrete backstory even if it doesn't really matter. The ending of the story makes for a nice ambiguous conclusion ruined by it's canonizing.

I actually liked it. They took some good bits from Long Halloween and some other stories and they kept the details pretty comic-accurate. The casting was pretty good, they weren't afraid to keep "silly" aspects of batman like his jet engine batmobile and him using his bat symbol as a knife, the cinematogeaphy was excellent, choreography was straight out of the video games. Tons of raceswapping and that Catwoman line aside, I enjoyed it. Guess I'll kill myself.

>>23776 But it made everyone try hard and see who makes the joker edgier and darker.

>>23779 Not Alan Moore's fault for giving a damn enough to write a good story. Blame the serial nature of comic books never ending that allows writers to continuously try to recapture lightning in a bottle.

>>23776 >I like giving Joker more a concrete backstory even if it doesn't really matter. Joker's origin was as a crime lord, who sort of lost it when was dropped in acid.

>>23782 Was that in the original comic appearance? I wouldn't know. I know they use that origin with the animated version & Burton's.

>>23769 >What's with all these Batman villains becoming some sort of fanatic rightwing cult leaders instead of just messed up mob bosses with certain gimmicks and crews following the colour like gangs from The Warriors. I guess they're still traumatized by Batman And Robin/Forever?

>>23795 I blame Mr. Freeze making writers think every villain needs a tragic backstory.

>>23613 >>23614 Well, they're out of ideas and have to resort with mish-mashing everything with current world and internet shit. Won't be long until they start using Pepe the fucking Frog as a vehicle for their insanity.

>>23797 Didn't they made Mr Freeze toxic and a wife abuser because god will curse anyone making a male simpathetic villain?

>>23613 >>23614 >a slight 90's grunge emo blend more than goth Tim Burton' Batman movies still have the best soundtrack. >Batman jobs Noice! >Alfred Oh, I hope McFaralane toys will make an action figure of him for my BatmanXOblomov crossover! They already made the prefect Bruce for that (pic related). >This is the only moment in the movie that he flies, he jumps off using a wing suit, tries flying under a bus, everyone in the theater clapped, and he crashes under the bridge, into a bus, down a few cars, and slams into the street like a retard. He gets up crying and limps away. Kek, I need to watch that scene. >Riddler is apparently a image board user and organized a major terrorist attack on the city and convinced multiple Anon's to assassinate all the mayoral candidates because government EEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVILLLLLLL. So they basically turned Riddler into a really shitty Mad Stan? >Joker appears and goes "Shut up retard ur plan worked lmao." and tells him "What's worth more the less you have?" and Riddler says "A friend." And Joker says "A friend in need is a friend indeed." And both start laughing. Shame, I was looking forward to homo-erotic tension between him and Sparkle Bat for the lulz. >Incel I'd argue he is not, since he kissed Catwoman. Incel means an angry virgin who is obsessive towards women and desperately want to get laid despite the term being thrown at virgins in general. >considered the greatest comic book movie of all time By dumb normalgroids who don't like comics and cartoons anyway. >Nolan movies His death metal voiced Batman was awful, I rooted for Joker and Bane until he turned out not to be the mastermind behind the plan . >grounded and realistic And that exactly the problem with live-action shit capeshit movies, capeshit by definition is not realistic. I wish capeshit was aimed for 8 year olds again instead of normalfag adults. >>23658 >Batman isn't even a good detective in this movie Are there any actual good detective stories with him? Or is he always written by average/retarded people? >>23771 >>23776 >>23780 I thought it was just meh; not awful, but not great either. Joker' progression from fairly normal person to a villain was quite rushed and forced, so much for breaking away from typical capeshit clichés.

>>23813 >Joker' progression from fairly normal person to a villain was quite rushed and forced, so much for breaking away from typical capeshit clichés. Well, the point of the Joker, at least modern Joker, is the story of some barely normal man with some special needs lose his mind in just one bad day.

I'm tired of >batman is crazy and unstable People mock Adam West and silver age comics for being goofy, and while I don't think that goofiness should necessarily be the norm especially considering the original batman wasn't goofy, at least they were heroic and not depressed crazy assholes.

>>23815 Old comics are fun & fit better for the serial format where nothing matters anyway. People taking them too seriously is how we ended up where we are now. Even worse when it came to movies pushing the meme of dark gritty takes.

>>23815 Unfortunately crazy Batman is an easy hook for writers that want to write a Batman with faults without putting the work in. >the original batman wasn't goofy I'd argue otherwise, Batman at his core has always been goofy on some level, even before he got the elements that he's most known for (gadgets, sidekick, villains). It's why most of his best stories lean on the extravagance, and the occasional bouts of realism and edginess do little more than highlight the absurdity of the premise.

I think that the best way to introduce Batman is through introducing Superman first, that's the only way a billionaire choosing to put on a cape and run around punching criminals and aliens makes any sense. Unfortunatetly even BvS made it clear Batman was already doing this shit for some reason. Marvel at least makes things make sense by stating that they live in a universal age of "Marvel's" where superpowers are handed out left and right, but in most DC movies it gets pretty weird. >>23813 >Kek, I need to watch that scene. Like I said the Chinese camrips are up if you wanna see the 140p version of that. But again I think that Batman CAN be realistic, but deserves to be in a universe where he's forced to deal with unrealistic shit otherwise, again, the idea is just inherently retarded that Batman would be the sole vigilante in his world.

>>23814 Which brings us back to what >>23771 said, though from what I heard "The Joker" movie was a rip-off of "Taxi Driver". Although it's related to becoming superhero rather than supervillain, in the og Spiderman comic, Peter didn't instantly come to decision of becoming a superhero after uncle Ben' death, instead it happened a lot more gradually and naturally (he hoped to continue preform as spiderman and make money out of it, especially after his uncle death left him and aunt may in financially dire state. He showed up in big even which happened to give him the opportunity to save a life and use his powers for good), similar to Antman before Stan Lee' hackery (muh dead wife' idiom about ants!) when initially Henry ends up against using his shrinking potion, but later changed his mind and only used his new inventions when the opportunity presented Itself. Sure, you could argue those stories had the benefit of starting in an *anthology so it wasn't certain they would continue and hence didn't need to make that lazy and forced direct causation, but good writing is good writing and it just shows how the so-called innovative deconstruction in "Killing Joke" isn't good as many claim it to be. *IMO, it's truer to Antman which the process of him becoming superhero was a lot quicker and simpler than Spiderman as I explained above. >>23815 >especially considering the original batman wasn't goofy Batman was always lame. >>batman is crazy and unstable As much as I loathe Batman being obnoxious Gary Stu, especially with those characteristics, they do make a lot of sense; I mean we are talking about rich guy who is obsessed with his parents' death and never got over it, decided to dress up like a bat and fight criminals using his fortune, taking advantage of orphan kids and recruiting them as child soldiers for his cause, there's nothing about it that implies sanity and mental stability! These characteristics have great potential to make interesting and good Batman' character and plot, if handled well. But, nooooo, the Batwankers want to have their cake and eat it too, they want their "flawed" and "deep", tortured soul bruceshit and being the best and most successful person on earth at the same time which results in him being the male equivalent of MRey Sue. Batman Remembers - FlimCow - https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Rz57DbGqut8 >>23817 >where nothing matters anyway If nothing matters, then there's no reason to invest in either the characters or the plot. There are older comics that had more consistency than the others. >People taking them too seriously is how we ended up where we are now. Even worse when it came to movies pushing the meme of dark gritty takes. I agree, that's also what John K was saying. >>23822 >I think that the best way to introduce Batman is through introducing Superman first, that's the only way a billionaire choosing to put on a cape and run around punching criminals and aliens makes any sense. That's defiantly a lot better than just having muh parents. >Batman CAN be realistic, but deserves to be in a universe where he's forced to deal with unrealistic shit otherwise, again, the idea is just inherently retarded that Batman would be the sole vigilante in his world What exactly do you mean by realistic? What John K defines as semi-realistic? I do think they should make his character more rounded and believable, but by doing that it's still not necessarily makes him realistic. I find the idea of making capeshit realistic and its attempts to always end up horribly, fall flat and takes the fun out of it (e.g. the consequences of supervillains deeds are way more catastrophic and horrifying). I do agree that putting Batman in a world full of superheroes does make more sense, I would also add either making the robins a lot older (17-18 and above) or the laws being less strict and the connection between the other superheroes being looser (so he could still have his manipulated little child soldiers and being an asshole without getting arrested).

Silly question, but has Killer Croc always been a nigger? or that's from the New 52? >>23827 It's all me.

>>23827 >we are talking about rich guy who is obsessed with his parents' death and never got over it, decided to dress up like a bat and fight criminals using his fortune, taking advantage of orphan kids and recruiting them as child soldiers for his cause Ah yes, the same spiel that normalfags tout all the time. >dress up like a bat It's a costume , faggot. Is superman crazy for wearing a costume? <but he has super powers Doesn't mean he needs to wear a circus costume, so clearly he must be an insane degenerate. Is a judge crazy for wearing those wigs? >obsessed with his parents' death and never got over it Originally he wasn't traumatized by their deaths but motivated to stop crime. You know, because it's interesting for characters to have a motive. Later writers decided to give him more "depth". >making advantage of orphan kids and recruiting them as child soldiers for his cause A relic from the silver age when batman was more silly which should have been gotten rid of when they changed the tone. For the campy version of batman it was fine and it doesn't make sense to criticism a campy character for being campy. The batman that came after that was shit as has already been established >These characteristics have great potential to make interesting and good Batman' character and plot, if handled well You just called him lame and then said the very characteristics that make him lame have the potential to make him interesting. I used to think batman was cool, because of his costume, his gadgets, and cleverness. What I never thought was cool, and indeed what made batman suck to me when I noticed it, was him being crazy or mopey or even depressed. Ultimately all that shit is subversive faggotry from fart-sniffing faggots who think cynical == smart. Because we can't have people wearing costumes and being heroic in a work of fiction. No, we must wink and nudge to the audience and say "look at how self-aware we are!" To clarify, when I say the original batman wasn't silly I meant the author didn't deliberately make him be any more so than any other superhero at the time.

>>23827 >If nothing matters, then there's no reason to invest in either the characters or the plot. Correct. Why do you think no one reads comics?

>>23837 Looking to fight your pro capeshit autist boyfriend again?

>>23836 >What I never thought was cool, and indeed what made batman suck to me when I noticed it, was him being crazy or mopey or even depressed. Part of the problem is that those elements can be used to make a story that is awesome, however they never do because that would actually require the character to better themselves and move beyond being mopey Since we're on the subject of Batman, here's one way I just thought of a few nights ago. Have it where Bruce first starts out being an aimless generic thug who takes his anger (Of his parent's murder) out on the world in the usual ways people see (Getting into fights, being suicidal in his actions, etc.). Then have it confronted to him that the absolutely LAST thing his parents would have wanted their surviving son to do would be to cause the world the same, if not more, pain he felt over their loss. So, he tries to clean himself up, use his vast wealth for philanthropic purposes and to make technology to make Gotham better and safer, however it's all thrown back in his face because the problems in Gotham stem far deeper than money can solve. So, using that big brain of his as a result of that prep school education, he starts turning into an amateur detective to connect the various people who are causing problems around the city. He brings info to the police and the courts, but is effectively branded a conspiracy nut and ignored. So, he resolves take care of everything himself, dons the cowl to create some disconnect between himself and the Batman, and modifies the tech he's already released to create his various gadgets. There, right there, you have a story about an angry depressed Bruce Wayne becoming the heroic Batman who wants to make a better world. And, the silliness of the entire thing could still work because his Batman persona is not suppose to be Bruce Wayne (Which seems to get lost in many of the stories), it's Bruce essentially acting the fool.

>>23827 Has there ever been a Batman comic where Bruce is treated like the lunatic he is, and all the villains and crazy shenanigans he gets into are just people sort of humoring him out of pity/fear? I remember a comic about some mentally retarded kid who pretended to be Batman, but that's not really the same thing.

>>23841 >>23841 >as there ever been a Batman comic where Bruce is treated like the lunatic he is, and all the villains and crazy shenanigans he gets into are just people sort of humoring him out of pity/fear? I hope not. Capeshit writers are often hack's, but I don't think any capeshit writer was ever hacky enough to do something so embarrassingly trite. Capeshit is basically licensed fan fiction, but I would hope their bottom of the barrel writers wouldn't fall that far.

>>23842 to specify, I'm talking about contemporary capeshit writers more specifically less the pro-capeshit autist mistake me for his boyfriend. Although it's not as if hack writers were unheard of before it shapely declined.

>>23843 *sharply

>>23841 Official ones? No. But there's numerous online comicstrips and videos with that exact same punchline.

>>23838 >TFW no angry gay sex arguing over comic book relevance in the modern day

Why doesn't anyone call Zorro crazy? He didn't have super powers.

>>23847 Because he was operating in the wild west/colonial mexico so there's more leeway for crazy shit. It's the same reason no one ever says Robin Hood is crazy or the Lone Ranger.

>>23836 >Ah yes, the same spiel that normalfags tout all the time You didn't refer to the claims themselves at all and also are you fucking kidding me?! Normalfags totally dig up Batman, why do you think there's endless churning out of Batwank?! DC wouldn't even let the woketards touch their scared cash cow despite him being the most obvious choice to wokefy as he is le RICH WHITE MALE!!! Catwoman mentioning muh white privilege is weak tea, just compare it to the soon possible movie of niggerwashed Superman for crying out loud. >It's a costume , faggot. Is superman crazy for wearing a costume? Bitch please, Superman outfit goes well with his theme and make sense. Why Batfags always have to drag Superman down to defend Batsy? >Doesn't mean he needs to wear a circus costume The bat costume is by far more ridiculous. Crazy Joker' costume is less outlandish than so called sane Batfag. >Originally he wasn't traumatized by their deaths but motivated to stop crime Oh yes, swearing to fight crime and dedicating all his life for that cause as a result of his parents' death' is by all means no sign of post-trauma and deep obsession. >A relic from the silver age when batman was more silly Nigger do you even read? He first appeared in Detective Comics 1940, killing cronies without trial alongside Batwat. >You just called him lame and then said the very characteristics that make him lame have the potential to make him interesting Are you illiterate or purposefully cherrypicking? I clearly said that Batman is lame because he is a shitty Gary Stu and as for the original comic, Batman is supposedly being serious and dark but he acted barely any different than the Adam West version, only with mass murdering. >To clarify, when I say the original batman wasn't silly I meant the author didn't deliberately make him be any more so than any other superhero at the time Nigger you didn't even read Golden Age Batman, I bet you haven't read any other Golden Age comics that you would come with such a stupid claim that is nothing more than pathetic retconing of your original clam. >>23840 >Part of the problem is that those elements can be used to make a story that is awesome, however they never do because that would actually require the character to better themselves and move beyond being mopey They don't even have to give him character growth, they should just let him face the consequences of his actions which almost never happen. Also, it doesn't help that many writers seem to confuse stoic for asshole. >Since we're on the subject of Batman, here's one way I just thought of a few nights ago. Have it where Bruce first starts out being an aimless generic thug who takes his anger (Of his parent's murder) out on the world in the usual ways people see (Getting into fights, being suicidal in his actions, etc.). Then have it confronted to him that the absolutely LAST thing his parents would have wanted their surviving son to do would be to cause the world the same, if not more, pain he felt over their loss. So, he tries to clean himself up, use his vast wealth for philanthropic purposes and to make technology to make Gotham better and safer, however it's all thrown back in his face because the problems in Gotham stem far deeper than money can solve. So, using that big brain of his as a result of that prep school education, he starts turning into an amateur detective to connect the various people who are causing problems around the city. He brings info to the police and the courts, but is effectively branded a conspiracy nut and ignored. So, he resolves take care of everything himself, dons the cowl to create some disconnect between himself and the Batman, and modifies the tech he's already released to create his various gadgets. That's really good idea, but then his parents' death should occur when he is older. However, being former delinquent is Terry' thing, not Bruce. >>23842 >Capeshit is basically licensed fan fiction The copyright monopoly law and it's dire consequences. >>23847 Don't strawman batwanker. No one is calling Batwat crazy because he has no superpowers, it's because of his behavior as already explained before. >>23848 Also help that they don't dress up like huge bat and have child soldiers at their disposal.

>>23853 >but then his parents' death should occur when he is older Isn't he already 10 years old when his parents are killed? So, he's already entering middle school. >However, being former delinquent is Terry' thing, not Bruce. Could go with the angle of Bruce being one of the genius delinquents, where he's the smartest person in the room and shows no respect because he and everyone else knows it. And, constantly getting into fights with the other students due to how short his temper is. Meanwhile, with Terry, his thing was that he was your average punk kid that just grew up in a troubled city, and didn't give much of a damn about the state of the world until his father was shot. In some ways, the complete opposite of Bruce.

So I went to see the movie and the leaks are exactly as told. Also, 3 hours of movie when the movie could have ended in 2 hours is pretty painful, also the shitty commie message of "Batman caused the crazies to go out!". Oh, and all the poor little niggers and the evil white men being evil. To be honest I wasn't expecting anything, but still it was tiresome and went to see it mostly for social interaction.

>>23840 >>23855 Here's another idea, after his parent's death Bruce joins the police, because he is still naive enough to think that by doing so he will protect the innocent and stop criminals. As the story progresses, he notices that a lot of cops take bribes, all the gangsters he arrests are set free the next day, his colleagues hate him, and some of them, won't chase a criminal, because its his "lunch break". Jim is the only one that respects and helps him,l however the two of them are not enough. Bruce then quits the force, and become the Batman, using what he learned in Police Academy(Judo) to fight criminals, but still use standard police protocol to subdue them and hand them over to Jim. It might create a more interesting dynamic. Not sure if this has ever been done.

>>23853 >Are you fucking kidding me No, normalfag. They say the same shit you said ALL THE TIME >Normalfags totally dig Batman up Some do yes, but even amongst their number there are those who say the same shit you do. It just doesn't ruin batman for them for some reason. > Superman outfit goes well with his theme and make sense So you're a hypocrite? I'm not dragging Superman down, I actually like Superman more than batman. I think is costume is fine, why do you think the batcostume isn't? Because of the mask? People have worn animal masks throughout history. >swearing to fight crime and dedicating all his life for that cause as a result of his parents' death' is by all means no sign of post-trauma and deep obsession. It's a work of fiction faggot. The author's intention of what batman is like is what batman is like. >Nigger do you even read? He first appeared in Detective Comics 1940 Huh, maybe he is shit then, I'll still reply to your other comments for good measure though. >killing cronies without trial alongside Batwat The no kill rule was retarded. Shitty writers act like you're either a no-kill fag or the punisher. In real life the goal of fighting someone is to stop them from being a threat, if they happen to die then too bad. In that very picture you're using as an example the guy was about to kill robin, no sane person would calm robin was in the wrong in that scenario. >Batman is supposedly being serious and dark but he acted barely any different than the Adam West version Old school writing, plain and simple. >retconing of your original clam. I'm not retconing anything. >>23853 >it's because of his behavior as already explained before. You mean dressing up in a silly costume and fighting crime, like Zorro.

>>23862 >Not sure if this has ever been done. I don't believe so. In fact, I think the only time there's been any variation in Bruce becoming Batman was with the Nolan films; where Bruce just wants to get plain revenge and bides his time until he does, misses out on that chance because the mob get's parent's killer first, and the goes running off to be a criminal for the next seven years so that he can "understand" why people commit crimes.

>>23863 Shut the fuck up, he's not going to change his mind and neither are you. I have never understood why people waste time arguing with people who strongly disagree with them. I have been on 8chan for six years the original + this one of course and I don't recall even a single instance of someone changing their mind in these arguments, and they've never changed my mind as a third party observer either. All that ever happens is that one or both get tired and leave. So why do you fags waste time, is it fun? It sure isn't fun to read.

>>23865 >Shut the fuck up, he's not going to change his mind and neither are you. I have never understood why people waste time arguing with people who strongly disagree with them. I have been on 8chan for six years the original + this one of course and I don't recall even a single instance of someone changing their mind in these arguments Bold of you to assume changing minds is the goal for all arguments. Argumentation occupies the same space as fighting for a lot of people. They find joy in arguing or can't help themselves.

>>23860 I don't understand how anyone is saying this is the new Joker. Sure Robert Pattinson is likable as a person but the writing is shit & everyone's a butchering of their comic selves.

>>23867 Because it make the left butthurt? and yet it isn't close as good as the Joker was. I admit it, the Joker was only good because it was just another old movie remade with some makeup and a name change, but still it fits well. This is trying to do the same snyder universe when those movies are shit. And no matter what you say, the modern batman movies were fucking shit. Riddler isn't a fucking psycopathic murderer, he is a fucking genius just a level below batman and also loves money. They deconstructed Batman so much it's like eating, taking a shit and call that turd a deconstruction of what you ate.

>>23922 >Because it make the left butthurt? Are they even particularly butthurt though? The only asshurt I've seen in normalfag spaces are people angry at some line about "MUH WHITE PRIVELEGE" that comes across as thrown in. Even than alot of those people are saying the movie wasn't that bad because they expect worse than a throwaway line now so anything that doesn't go all in on the pozz get's treated softly by those kind of faggots.

>>23922 Nigger the left love this fucking movie. This movie IS leftist! Catwomyn spouts shit about white privilege & Riddler is a imageboard terrorist.

>>23924 Well, they are more like twitter terrorists, but it's the same point I guess.

>>23860 >the shitty commie message of "Batman caused the crazies to go out!" Well, it was just a matter of time...they already made Thomas Wayne as an asshole in "The Joker" I guess it's genetic:^) . Now how long will it take until we get nigger Joker and more importantly how much and which of the bullshit in this film going to be adapted into the new upcoming "Caped Crusader" cartoon? >To be honest I wasn't expecting anything, but still it was tiresome and went to see it mostly for social interaction That's what you get for being a normalfag. >>23855 >Isn't he already 10 years old when his parents are killed? So, he's already entering middle school IMHO it's still too young, not much of serious things can be done by most kids at these ages. >Could go with the angle of Bruce being one of the genius delinquents, where he's the smartest person in the room and shows no respect because he and everyone else knows it. And, constantly getting into fights with the other students due to how short his temper is. I think the idea that he will be the head of gang works better rather than him picking fights on his own which could be directly traced to him and cause troubles for him. Bruce is too calculated and I don't see him having a short temper, he is also very smart and manipulative. So all in all, it makes more sense and that way keeps the differentiation between him and Terry. But in all honesty, I wouldn't want this as rewrite/retcon of Bruce' story before handing the cowl to Terry, it should be separated and being part of solo story of Bruce. This could give really interesting angle to Bruce' twisted personality that could be explored. >Meanwhile, with Terry, his thing was that he was your average punk kid that just grew up in a troubled city, and didn't give much of a damn about the state of the world until his father was shot False, Terry grew up in middle class house, it's only when his parents got divorce, he unfortunately got into a bad company. Before Terry became Batman, in the very first scene of him in Batman Beyond series, he confronted a Joker that harassed people in public transportation. To be more precise, Terry is former delinquent with a heart of gold. >In some ways, the complete opposite of Bruce The only thing Terry has in common fuck epilogue, and no I'm not going to argue about that pile of shit in this thread with Bruce, is, unfortunately, being a shit boyfriend, but that's for the most part easily fixable. And speaking of shit boyfriends and trying to improve Bruce' badly written character, I think he should either have one love interest or be a wizard instead of being a manwhore and fugging his enemies. Or at least, as I've said before, should have consequences to his actions like Damian being evil instead of mini bruceshit that manages to be somehow even more insufferable. >>23862 >Bruce joins the police If he does it, you need to take into account that he would have to leave the Wayne mansion and not run his family company...I don't see Bruce giving up on those from his own will (as the mansion hold memories from his time with his family and the company is the legacy of his family). So unless you make an outside factor to make Bruce lose these and then become poorfag Batman (that could be quite innovative and interesting), this idea won't work. >>23863 >No, normalfag. They say the same shit you said ALL THE TIME Yet, again, you fail to refute the claims themselves and of course completely cherrypick my argument for your ease to the point you barely quote a sentence. As I've said before, the vast majority of normalfags like Batman and considering you're a batfag and don't read comics, I'll say you're the projecting normalfag. >Some do yes Again, most of them. >but even amongst their number there are those Again, those are minority, the whole point of judging normalfags is by being representative of the majority. If you're going to ignore this simple notion, then you have no point about arguing what normalfags do/like/hate/etc as I'm certain you can find all kinds of normalfags doing shit that anons may do. >It just doesn't ruin batman for them for some reason Like you, as you're also a normalfag:^) >I actually like Superman more than batman Yeah right, then you should know Batman only became more popular than Superman when the campy era ended and edgy era began (which you hate). >why do you think the batcostume isn't? Because he is neither a villain nor have superpowers related to his costume theme, it's ridiculous. >Huh, maybe he is shit then HE IS >Shitty writers t. Bill Finger and Bob Kane (who is also a shit artist, even after his improvement, most of his drawings are still bad).

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>the punisher >the goal of fighting someone is to stop them from being a threat, if they happen to die then too bad. In that very picture you're using as an example the guy was about to kill robin By your logic Batwat and his child soldier should kill every criminal they face, retard. >Old school writing, plain and simple >he has the audacity to say it as he never read a single golden age comic book >I'm not retconing anything. You initially said he wasn't goofy, then you said he wasn't goofier than any other superhero at time and eventually you caught up in your own bullshit, admitting you're talking out of your ass about things you know jackshit about. But you know what? I'll give you some credit for at least not denying that you haven't read a single golden age comic book, amusingly including the very one you're attempting to defend. >You mean dressing up in a silly costume and fighting crime, like Zorro Zorro doesn't dress vastly different from people in his time period and the only main difference is his eye mask, and again he doesn't train and use child soldiers.

>>23863 I >>23926 forgot to refer >It's a work of fiction faggot. The author's intention of what batman is like is what batman is like You failed to refer to argument and refuting that Batman was in fact traumatized by his parents' death. You're just stupidly justifying bad writing by claiming we should respect everything some idiot like you put out. You might as well respect the edgy Batman writers' intentions that you complained about.

>>23926 Thanks for shitting up the threat with your lovers quarrel.

>>23860 >3 hours Jesus Christ, Batman's the last kind of thing that should last that long. You'd think a Batman film of all things would try having style over length.

>>23956 Thank Nolan for making Batman a pretentious slog of first year philosophy. So now every Batman has to be up it's own ass.

>>23977 No, thank Miller ya fucking newfag.

>>23978 >>23979 In the comics maybe but no one reads those. No the average person's view of Batman is viewed from the perspective of Nolan.

>>23980 No, people have had issues with Batman philosophy wank in films since Tim Burton was running the show.

>>23981 Tim Burton Batman wasn't that philosophical. At least nowhere near as bad as Nolan & Snyder. Burton is at fault for making Batman a shameless gleeful killer though.

>>23867 >but the writing is shit You underestimate the lack of standards power of Batwankers. >everyone's a butchering of their comic selves You just described pretty much every 3DPD capeshit movie. >>23922 >>23923 I'll be surprised if the movie fail, it's edgy batfaggot movie with minimal pozz by today's standards. From what I've seen so far, it seems that the merch sells well, and selling merch is what Batwank is all about. >>23982 >Burton is at fault for making Batman a shameless gleeful killer though Well it is faithful to the original comic and better option than not killing realistic mass murder Joker because of dumb moralfaggotry.

>>23983 >original comic No. The original Batman in Detective Comics was a prototype. Not the original version of the character. The official real version is the one that has a strict code on not killing. If you think of the Detective Comics The Shadow rip off as the original version is the definitive version then you get no Alfred, Batcave, Batmobile, Robin, or any of his villains.

>>23983 >>23984 Also note that Batman almost never killed anybody even in the earliest issues. He shot some of Hugo Strange's Monster Men in one story, but it's debatable if Monster Men even count as human, and there was the one time he swung by on a rope and kicked Tony Zucco (I think) in the head and broke his neck (which is admittedly pretty hardcore), but that was about it. By the second year of stories, Batman wasn't killing anyone anymore.

>>24005 He kills a vampire but again not human so yeah. But again just a prototype The Shadow knockoff.

>>24014 >vampires aren't human Das rayciss

>>24048 FUCK VAMP SCUM!

>>24014 >>24048 Well they're as intelligent as humans. >But they're evil So is most of his rogues gallery.

>>24063 Yes but they're already dead & monsters. So it's fair game to slaughter them.

>>24065 How do you know they arent just humans with a disease. You wouldn't kill a man for having vitiligo.

>>24068 You wouldn't?

>>24068 I think there's a big difference between a skin condition & being an undead monster that drinks the blood of the living.

>>24069 Possibly for eugenic and quarantine purposes, yes. >>24071 Okay but like what if they just have a bad iron deficiency. You wouldn't deny a fellow human a little spare iron right? And albinos can't go in the sun either but no one calls then freaks. And okay so they sleep in coffins but so do lots of things.

I mean you don't even use or need all of your blood, and if you all weren't so selfish and just all agreed to give a lil bit every month there wouldn't be a problem. Remember to donate whole blood and plasma today, only you can end world hunger.

>>24069 >>24071

>>24065 >Yes but they're already dead Like most of his rogues gallery should be >& monsters Like most of his rogues gallery

>>24074 Lordy lordy, look who's turning... Forty forty.

>>24075 Eh, I think only Ra's Al Ghul (Genocidal terrorist), Poison Ivy (genocidal eco-terrorist), and the ones who are just serial killers like Calendar Man, and of course the Joker (Genocidal terrorist serial killer) should be put to death. Guys like the Penguin would be good in a (competent) maximum security prison, and guys like Two-Face would be good in a (again, competent) psych hospital.

>>24078 Isn't Ra's Al Ghul an echo-terrorist as well?

>>23984 >a prototype >The official real version Do you idiot realize it wasn't a one shot but ran constantly?! Batman first appeared in Detective Comics issue 27 1939 and got his own additional standalone comic in 1940. >The Shadow rip off So you bothered to search that, but not the others... >Robin I already posted about him in this thread ffs. >Batmobile There was already some sort of twatmobile described as high-powered roadster. Twatmobil itself appeared in Batman issue 5 1941. >Batcave Similar to the Batmobile, there was initial concept called "secret underground hangers" that appeared in Batman issue 12 1942. The Batcave itself appeared in Detective comics issue 83 1944 which keeps it in the frame of Golden Age comics. So as you can see Bob Kane and Bill Finger just kept making shit up as they roll with their shitty comic without giving a damn about what happened prior. >Alfred Batman issue 16 1943 >any of his villains Joker appeared in the first Batman issue killing four people including a fucking judge and was about to kill Robin as well, then sent to prison. In addition, while bat psycho was chasing the mass murder he was rhyming after he rescued his child solider from Joker. In the second story of the same issue, Joker escapes prison then kills five to six people including a fucking chief police and was about to kill the child solider too but Batwat said STOP so he stopped despite Batwat had no actual means to stop him or actually pursued him to do so because Bill Finger and Bob Kane are godawful hacks. Eventually during Batwat fight with the Joker using a knife, Joker somehow™ "accidently" got pushed against a building which in turn pushed the knife into his chest and the only reason he doesn't die is because he got even bigger plotarmor than Batwat and that shit goes on and on with Joker either cheating death, sent to prison or just keep escaping. In issue 7 Batwat actually being reasonable for a change and shoved off Joker from the train they stand on, only for Joker to cheat death again and then in issue 11 when Joker tried to kill his child solider again (almost burning him to death), he didn't bother to kill him and made a joke about hurting him, however in issue 12 Batfaggot tried to kill Joker yet again by shoving him off blimp into a river… the inconsistency is just asinine. So you know what? Nolan wasn't far off from the shitty comic, it's either dumb moralfagootry or plotarmor, pick your poison and kudus to Burton for Killing Batwat' boyfriend. >>24005 >Also note that Batman almost never killed anybody even in the earliest issues Do you have selective memory or straight up lying?! He killed in the very first issue he appeared in and later killed additionally seven more people. Why some anons here talk in such a certainty about comics they never read as if they were cuckchanners?! READ NIGGA READ >>24014 >>24048 >>24052 The Vampires did nothing wrong; they wanted to save Julie and Dick from a rich psychopath while also getting back at the faggot poser.

>>23983 >Well it is faithful to the original comic and better option than not killing realistic mass murder Joker because of dumb moralfaggotry. There's a very good rationale to it though. These are vigilante crime fighters we're talking about here, especially in their original golden age versions. There's good reason for people who are functionally masked neighborhood watch members to obey the spirit of the law even as they bend and break the letter of the law. Especially when you're dealing with basic human criminals. This isn't a JoJo situation where you have heroic stand users killing rogue stand users that normal people have no way to perceive let alone fight against.

>>23853 >The bat costume is by far more ridiculous Nah, its cool.

>>24087 >Robin's Code: >Readiness >Obedience >Brotherhood >Industriousness >Nationalism How time have changed, not this would be called some sort extreme right wing motto, that only neo-nazis would take.

>>24087 >batgay won't kill his boyfirend. I'm sorry, weren't you complaining earlier about robin not letting a criminal stomp on his fingers until he fell from the metal girder he was hanging onto?

>>24087 Again, Detective Comics Batman was before he was his own character in his own series. Batman as we know him only came then. Everything in Detective comics doesn't count.

>>24072 Iron deficient albinos don't suck people's blood, anon! Nor are they unable to enter holy ground!

>>24097 >Erythropoietic protoporphyria (EPP), the most common kind of porphyria to occur in childhood, causes people’s skin to become very sensitive to light. Prolonged exposure to sunshine can cause painful, disfiguring blisters. >“People with EPP are chronically anemic, which makes them feel very tired and look very pale with increased photosensitivity because they can’t come out in the daylight,” says Barry Paw MD, PhD, of the Dana-Farber/Boston Children’s Cancer and Blood Disorders Center. “Even on a cloudy day, there’s enough ultraviolet light to cause blistering and disfigurement of the exposed body parts, ears and nose.” >Staying indoors during the day and receiving blood transfusions containing sufficient heme levels can help alleviate some of the disorder’s symptoms. In ancient times, emerging only at night may have achieved a similar effect. Okay so what if they just had Porphyria? Surely not a reason to shun a man.

>>24098 Alright wise guy, surely you know the difference between a blood pack transfusion & stalking a lone woman in the night to drain her of blood from her neck. Plus that still don't account for the fact vampires are literally unholy to the point crosses burn them & consecrated ground is forbidden from them to enter.

>>24099 I submit an alternative possibility. A very rich man, afflicted with such a disease, in ye olden times, had very little means of understanding or treating this genetic issue. Perhaps he discovers blood or vitae restores his vigor somewhat, and from there a chain of events unravels that leads to him or his paid men grabbing women off the street at night. There are historical accounts of beautiful women bathing in the blood of virgins supposedly for health reasons. As for churches well if its closed at night then they never could attend, alternatively only being able to attend at night and possibly in robes they were never witnessed attending services. And so rumor sprung up saying they couldn't even touch holy ground. Got me with the crosses. Possibly a jewish genetic disorder?

>>24101 Aha but see bathing in blood is impossible as the amount needed to fill a tub to bath in would coagulate quickly. But if they're jewish, wouldn't that be all the more reason to persecute them?

>>24104 You could add an anticoagulant, such chemicals were known to the greeks, a natural form being found in the glands of several members of the octopode family. And if vampire are just jews then yeah they should probably be "physically removed" Again they could just be night owls though. Even if a single priest church was open 24/7 as I believe they traditionally were, a quiet man may enter and pay his respects without waking such a priest. And again not being observed then presumed being unable.

>>24105 Well you just got an answer for everything don't you?!

>>24106 Yes. Also you should donate blood.

>>24107 Wait a second....

>>24089 >These are vigilante crime fighters we're talking about here, especially in their original golden age versions >There's good reason for people who are functionally masked neighborhood watch members to obey the spirit of the law even as they bend and break the letter of the law. Huh?! Golden Age heroes would kill sometimes (or all the times in the case of Bat psycho). >very good rationale to it I can assure you, there's nothing rational about Bill Finger' and Bob Kane' inconsistent writing and bad world building. >basic human criminals Mass murdering psychopath Joker is far from basic human criminal, especially when he keeps escaping from prison again and again. It's completely asinine not to kill him. >This isn't a JoJo Read comic books you dumb weeb. >>24091 <child abuse is good >>24092 There's a huge difference between killing a random crony to killing a mass murdering psychopath, Mr. Strawman. >>24096 Again retard, Detective Comics continued to publish Batwat stories alongside the regular Batman issues, that's how it used to be in comics. As I already mentioned Robin already appeared in Detective Comics and so is Penguin apparently (in issue 58 1941). Furthermore, the mass murdering Joker, Bat psycho spanking Dick for his birthday and another example I just posted now how Robin killed another person, all happened in the Batman issues. You're truly foolish to think that Bill Finger and Bob Kane magically became good writers and there's no connection between Detective comics and Batman comic. Batfaggots keep attempting to defend a shitty comic they never read, this getting pathetic...just admit that, at least, Batman was originally a shit character.

>>24170 Joker killing people isn't a bad thing. Robin didn't kill the guy. He shot himself. Bill & Bob literally admitted on paper they preferred taking Batman in the proper direction of making him a hero like Superman in his own series. Stop acting like the prototype Shadow ripoff matters. It doesn't. If you keep pushing it, you'll only encourage retards like Snyder & his cult who see no problem with Batman being a murderer.

>>24170 >There's a huge difference between killing a random crony to killing a mass murdering psychopath So you should let a random crony stomp on your fingers until you fall to your death?

>>24176 There is literally nothing wrong with batman killing the joker. Lots of heroes, not anti-heroes but regular heroes, for ages were willing to and did kill certain people. The specifics varied with their ability, but even ones who were skilled enough or super-powered enough to non-lethally deal with anyone they encountered did still kill the big bad mastermind. This wasn't even framed as grim necessary, because there's nothing grim about it. The mastermind was often in these stories an unrepentant evil man who deserved justice. Trying to equate it to punisher-tier characters is a blatant false equivalence. With superheroes however, their villains became too profitable so they needed an excuse to keep them alive. Frankly, it's not even be a problem for villains who deeds don't outshine most third-world warlords. You, evidently, think that any hero who wouldn't jump a bullet for Stallin is a psychotic murderer.

>>24179 >You, evidently, think that any hero who wouldn't jump a bullet for Stallin is a psychotic murderer. But anon, a real hero is someone who saves everyone, even the bad guys.

>>24180 Fuck off, Shirou.

>>24179 From the real world sense? Yes Joker should 100% be killed when he's a a violent psychopath that murders for fun. Should Batman be the one to do it or would it be morally just for a hero defined by his morals to break them? No I don't think so. That's why in a logical setting not limited by the serialization of comic books, someone like Red Hood would be the answer to the villain problem. You could even have it be a fuck you to Batman by having Jason actually be loved by the people of Gotham for avenging their loved ones & putting an end to Joker's menace for good. Jason doing it out of both revenge for his murder & to prove a point that Batman's methods don't work when the villains will never stop killing.

>>24182 In a real world sense, an angry mob would have beaten the Joker to death and gang raped Harley ages ago.

>>24183 Lol no. Real world mass killers get away all the time because people have a herd mentality not to do anything.

>>24182 > by having Jason actually be loved by the people of Gotham for avenging their loved ones & putting an end to Joker's menace for good >someone like Red Hood would be the answer to the villain problem Until someone pushes the concept too far and it ends up with Captain Atom getting split open in the middle of Kansas.

>>24183 >>24184 In a real world sense, Joker would have been given the death penalty because the insanity plea only works for your defense in a murder trial if you literally fail to comprehend that you're taking a human life.

>>24185 Kingdom Come was basically that. >>24186 Plus he's escaped way too many times to count & murdered countless people including police, guards, doctor, & even children. So like in no logical world would Joker live very long. Even just a cop with a grudge would gun him down. But that's getting away from the argument of whether Batman should kill.

>>24186 >>24187 Plus the Joker has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he is a skilled manipulator, something that's hard to do if you have a complete detachment from reality. The joker fits the bill of a psychopath, which go to jail. Come to think of it, the Joker has basically just being Hannibal Lector without the cannibalism for the past few decades now.

>>24183 >an angry mob would have beaten the Joker to death and gang raped Harley ages ago I'd pay money to read that.

>>24187 >But that's getting away from the argument of whether Batman should kill. Does he want to take the law into his own hands? That's what killing people does. Typical vigilantism is already a grey area: https://archive.ph/sySMO Adding killing to his list definitely results in a manhunt for him, despite whether or not it was in self-defense or if the guy deserves it.

>>24190 Joker deserves it. But that doesn't mean Batman should do it. Especially if he is molded by the death of his parents so much he doesn't want to take a life or else he'd see himself as no better than the man that killed them.

>>24191 >Joker deserves it. But that doesn't mean Batman should do it I get this part and I'm all for it but I don't get depictions like Under the Red Hood where Batman is actively protecting the Joker when moments ago he was going to set a group of people on fire.

>>24198 Yeah I don't think Batman should protect someone like Joker but rather prevent Jason from further going down the dark road he was on. That would be more in line with his character.

>>24176 >Joker killing people isn't a bad thing >because I said so! That's not how arguments work, retard Batfaggot! >Robin didn't kill the guy >He shot himself By Robin pointing his hand to his head instead to the air, genius. >on paper >he reads a paper on the comic, but not the comic itself Embarrassing, just leave normalnigger! >they preferred Intentions aside and actions aside. The fact is they began Bat Psycho as murder and just kept bullshitting as time passed by without giving it a proper reboot. >prototype Shadow ripoff matters It does you stupid normalfaggot, again the Batman comic series didn't replace nor end the Detective Comics publishing, not to mention that the very background story of Batman from the early comics was copied into the first Batman issue which you would've known IF YOU FUCKING READ THE COMIC YOU DUMB NORMALNIGGER! >keep pushing I am just pointing out that batman was originally a shit character which you delusional Batfaggot keep denying. >>24178 As I've said before, all criminals that Batwat and his child soldier are facing try to kill them, it doesn't mean they should kill every criminal they encounter. Robin could have thrown him somewhere safe or use a cord to keep him from falling. >>24179 Great post anon, I wholeheartedly agree. >their villains became too profitable so they needed an excuse to keep them alive That's what it really boils down to in the end, Batwankers and apparently certain Batfaggots don't care for shit writing and seriously enjoy the homoerotic tension between Batwat and his clown boyfriend >>24180 >>24181 Kek >>24182 >From the real world sense And here is the problem with Batman' world building, it doesn't make any sense. >his morals Not killing Joker is immoral. >logical setting >Batman >Red Hood >needed decades to fix Bob Kane and Bill Finger hackery which still results in Batwat being an asshole psychopath >Jason Wasn't he killed due to publicity stunt? >>24183 >>24189 This and the mob throwing away Batman would be beautifully amazing! >>24184 Real world killers don't go and kill judges and cops, publicly announcing it and doing it in public.

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>>24186 This >>24188 >which go to jail But that's main part of the whole issue, he keeps escaping and murdering people, hence the logical resolution is to execute him! And that's not counting the utterly ridiculous plotarmor Joker has in the original inconsistent shitty comic where he keeps escaping death when Batwat suddenly feels like killing him whereas in other times arrest because absolute hackery. >>24190 >Does he want to take the law into his own hands? He already does it by fighting and arresting criminals. >>24187 >>24191 >whether Batman should kill. >But that doesn't mean Batman should do it It does as Joker is clearly, to say the least, is a sever active threat that keeps getting away with it. >>24198 >Batman is actively protecting the Joker when moments ago he was going to set a group of people on fire >"NO! NOT MUH BOYFRIEND!" >>24201 >I don't think Batman should protect someone like Joker He passively does it by avoiding killing.

>>24202 Holy fuck cool it with the autism.

>>24203 There is no law saying he has to.

>>24209 Why are there so many people like you who are so autistic that you can't read between the lines? I'm not that anon, but he was obviously saying to shut the fuck up. There isn't a law that forbids voicing displeasure either numbnuts.

>>24210 You'd think someone who's so bad at reading social cues & doesn't understand things being told directly to him would actually like Batman & want him done better.

>>24202 >Robin could have thrown him And where is somewhere safe in that situation? How do you throw him there while you're holding on for dear life? >use a cord to keep him from falling. I guess physics defying ninjas like batman and robin could kick the guy and then get up fast enough to then use a cord on the guy, assuming the other cronies don't shoot him at any point.

>>24210 Anon you seem to have mistaken me. I understood him to be saying "fuck off bro, like who even reads comics lol" And was responding with "no, go kys faggot" in such a manner that frank wouldn't immediately cotton on and delete the comment. Is that more clear?

>>24215 fair enough

>>24215 Caring about comics would be saying "Batman has been defined as an actual character by his code of no killing" instead of "BATMAN SHOULD MURDER BECAUSE THIS NON-CANON PROTOTYPE COMIC MADE FIRST SAYS HE CAN & HE SHOULD MURDER JOKER BECAUSE REAL WORLD LOGIC NEEDS TO BE APPLIED TO MY COMIC ABOUT A MAN DRESSED AS A BAT!".

>>24233 By that same logic, it's unrealistic that writers make Joker perform bigger and bigger crimes, almost making him commit genocide or major terrorist attacks, and the government hasn't gotten involved. This isn't Dragon Ball where he's so powerful that only the protagonist can deal with him, he's a guy in a cheap suit who knows chemistry at most. It actually would be a nice change of pace if you had a Batman run where the clown just gets dropped and it doesn't turn into a Juggalo fest wanking Joker.

Bats aren't scary

>>24238 I agree. I don't want Joker forever escalating his crimes. Especially when even with constant reboots & retcons, he just retreads the same old ground or has already gone farther. At the end of the day the problem is that you can't have that same sort of heroic morality when the villains are actively murderous threats. Sure japan knows that but their heroes are usually fighting actual monsters & aliens. Plus they aren't serialized shows. They have beginnings and ends.

>>24240 Vegeta was a mass murderer, and now he's a good guy because journey to the west.

>>24242 Yeah but Vegeta's penance is forever being the punching bag.

>>24239 Neither is Konrad Kurze

>>24242 >and now he's a good guy No, he's not. In Dragon Ball, Vegeta falls into the same category as Piccolo, in that both want to kill Goku, are still villains, but they don't kill him because there's always some threat that's going to end up killing them too, so they work with him for the purpose of mutually survival. Can't attest to anything afterwards as I've only read the original manga. Also, that's excluding that Goku arguably becomes a villain as well as he keeps reviving murderers for the sole purpose to fight them.

>>24253 Have Goku and co. ever intentionally revived a murderer? Vegeta got brought back by a loophole. Krillin wished back the Androids but they weren't evil anymore. I suppose in Super he revives Frieza, but that's to fight in the Multiverse tournament, not just to fight him. Am I missing something?

>>24254 >Have Goku and co. ever intentionally revived a murderer? Yes, Goku did with Piccolo, and Cell. and Buu. >Krillin wished back the Androids No, the Android were literally punched out of Cell. >but that's to fight in the Multiverse tournament Which only happens in the shit anime, and never in the manga.

>>24255 >Yes, Goku did with Piccolo Goku has never wished Piccolo back to life. Krillin and Gohan did on Namek, and Dende was the one who revived him after Buu saga. Unless you're referring to someone else? >and Cell. He gave Cell a senzu bean, but he never wished the damn guy back to life. What are you talking about? >and Buu. Good Buu? He gets spit out by Kid Buu in response to Mr. Satan being around. That had nothing to do with Goku. Give me direct examples of Goku wishing back any mainline villain. Again, the only one I am aware of is Frieza and that's from Super. >Which only happens in the shit anime, and never in the manga. You are aware there is a Super manga yes? I know it's based off the anime as opposed to vice versa, but that doesn't undo it's existence. Actually it wasn't even Goku who brough Frieza back to life, that was Whis after the tournament, with Baba reviving him for the tournament. Goku has never actually been the person gathering the Dragon Balls to revive someone personally.

>>24258 >Goku has never wished Piccolo back to life. He gave him the senzu bean after their big showdown that healed all of Piccolo's injuries. >He gave Cell a senzu bean Yeah, he revived Cell when he was on his deathbed. >Good Buu? He gets spit out by Kid Buu in response to Mr. Satan being around. That had nothing to do with Goku. Kid Buu is revived into Uub. >You are aware there is a Super manga yes? Where Toriyama's involvement just boils down to him signing off on it and not actually writing anything.

>>24260 >He gave him the senzu bean after their big showdown that healed all of Piccolo's injuries. Okay are you using "revive" to mean "brought back from near dead" as opposed to "brought back from death"? That's very fucking important in the context of Dragon Ball. Regardless I suppose this is the only time you are correct, but Goku also did this to prevent Kami from keeling over, or at least that's what stated. Furthermore, I don't think Piccolo canonically manages to kill anyone else from this point on other than Goku (lol) and Raditz(bad guy), and by living the Dragon Balls get used to revive other people. I'm going to say it was a net positive healing Piccolo. >Cell In this case he healed Cell so his son could fight him, not himself. I suppose this is a dick move. Since he did manage to kill Goku, King Kai, Android 16(kind of) and a few civilians I guess. >Kid Buu is revived into Uub. How is that Goku's fault?

>>24261 >How is that Goku's fault? Ah, read up on it I guess. >This boy is the reincarnation of Kid Buu, born from the wish Goku made before killing Kid Buu Is reincarnation the same as reviving? I don't think Uub is a bad person.

>>24253 >No, he's not. In Dragon Ball, Vegeta falls into the same category as Piccolo, in that both want to kill Goku, are still villains, but they don't kill him because there's always some threat that's going to end up killing them too, so they work with him for the purpose of mutually survival. No, that's only their initial motivation for not constantly trying to kill Goku. That then leads them into character arcs where they slowly become more and more good until they are just good guys at the end. You didn't see when Piccolo sacrificed himself for Gohan and went to Heaven? You didn't see when he merged with Nail? You didn't see when he merged with Kami, but only after having an inner conflict when he realized that he already lost the evil that defined him without consciously realizing it? After he merged with Kami, any pretense of him being even the least bit evil was dropped. Hell, not that I'm trying to use filler as proof, but in the anime Kami even tries to get Piccolo to train to become his replacement. And I'm not saying it's canon, but I am saying that he had progressed enough by that point that that filler could fit in and not be particularly egregious. Vegeta meanwhile became sympathetic when he got a tragic backstory and died the first time, then becomes more and more of a nice guy through interaction with Future Trunks, and by the Buu Saga, it's an explicit plot point that he is having the same inner conflict Piccolo had when he realizes he lost the evil that defined him. Vegeta then actually does more evil shit, but immediately regrets it to the point of self-sacrifice. By the end of the series, he still wants to beat Goku, but now it is just out of rivalry. He wants to beat him, not necessarily kill him. He doesn't want to do anything bad anymore. He does want to help save the world sometimes. And in the original version, Vegeta didn't even care about beating Goku anymore, he had moved on, but like a decade later Toriyama changed it in reprints. Also, not that you'll count Super as canon, but in Super, Vegeta is more of a hero than Goku. Goku is an amoral chaotic neutral bored god, and Vegeta is basically a straight hero. And for as much shit as Super gets, Vegeta's characterization is the best part. >Also, that's excluding that Goku arguably becomes a villain as well as he keeps reviving murderers for the sole purpose to fight them. Goku's such a pure soul that he, seemingly inadvertently, keeps rubbing off on people and making them better people than they were when they met him. Everyone in the series other than Goku's family was introduced as an antagonist or at least with very notable negative traits, and he makes almost all of them into good guys, except for Cell and Frieza. And even then, Super gets close with both of them. Now, Goku doesn't seem to do this on purpose, so one could argue his selfish motivations still make him a villain, but his pure love of self-improvement makes him so good that it makes everyone around him better, so he's still a hero. But yeah, again he goes way too far in Super, and anyone who knows it knows what I mean. >>24258 >You are aware there is a Super manga yes? I know it's based off the anime as opposed to vice versa, but that doesn't undo it's existence. The Super manga fell behind the anime very early, but it's been ahead of the anime for a long time now, by virtue of the anime not airing for the last few years. The last few arcs are actually good, because they're not rushing to keep up with the anime, and because Toriyama just let Toyotaro have more control and get really autistic with it. >>24260 >Where Toriyama's involvement just boils down to him signing off on it and not actually writing anything. Given the difference between the earlier stories and the ones that take place after the anime, it does seem clear that Toriyama did give plot outlines for the earlier stories, but Toyotaro and the anime went in different directions with the outlines sometimes. Toriyama then said that with the stuff after Broly, he let Toyotaro take more control, and it does show in the writing. Toriyama never would have done a lot of the autistic continuity stuff the last few arcs have done. >>24261 >In this case he healed Cell so his son could fight him, not himself. I suppose this is a dick move. Since he did manage to kill Goku, King Kai, Android 16(kind of) and a few civilians I guess. Goku did it because he thought it would help Gohan get mad enough to go Super Saiyan 2, since he knew that nobody including himself would be able to beat Cell otherwise. But even Goku later regrets this when it gets him fucking killed. But then it did kind of work in the end after all. >How is that Goku's fault? Goku wished for it, but not necessarily on the Dragon Balls. But then it works. Maybe it was luck or fate. But then again, Goku does have significant sway in Heaven, given how he is buddies with Enma-Daioh and other gods above him, and he had literally just saved the entire universe including Heaven. >>24262 >Is reincarnation the same as reviving? I don't think Uub is a bad person. Uub is a good guy. Goku specifically wished that Buu would reincarnate as a good guy, so they could fight under friendlier circumstances. If you wish for someone to reincarnate, that's close enough to revival for me. Then again, almost everyone except for the universe's greatest heroes reincarnate in Dragon Ball. Heroes like Goku get to keep their bodies. And later they say Frieza didn't reincarnate even after like 15 years because he was so evil they weren't able to cleanse his soul enough to reincarnate. Which is a bit weird since Buu was cleansed, but then I guess Kid Buu was treated as more chaotic neutral, while Frieza is lawful evil. But Kid Buu being neutral and not evil is stupid since he was literally created by the fat Buu that Babadi summoned spitting out his evil half, then the evil half eating him, then spitting him out again. So Kid Buu should be the same as the grey evil Buu, and frankly it doesn't make any sense that he isn't the same form. I guess he absorbed some stuff from the good fat Buu he ate, so therefore the good fat Buu he spit out isn't technically exactly the same as the one he ate? This has bugged me for decades. Anyway, Goku specifically asked Krillin to let Vegeta live because he wanted to fight him again later. This was immediately after Vegeta killed tons of people, including not just all their friends, but a ton of random people in cities and stuff. And Goku admits it's a bad and selfish idea. It's not even like when he let Piccolo Jr live because he figured he would always be able to beat him anyway. It's not even like with Frieza, when Goku gives him energy to let him get away, seemingly out of pity. It's not like with Cell, when Goku knew he could never win anyway, and gave him a senzu as some 4D chess to try to motivate Gohan. It's not like with Buu, when Goku admitted he could have killed him but he wanted to train Gohan and Trunks to be the next generation of heroes since he was already dead and shouldn't have been on Earth in the first place. No, with Vegeta, Goku admitted that Vegeta might kill him next time, and then get to go on more murderous rampages. But he asked Krillin to let him go anyway, for fun.

>>24266 >And for as much shit as Super gets, Vegeta's characterization is the best part. <Isn't this canon to Super?

>>24245 When you're stuck on a derelict ship as regular ass human being with Kurze for years where every day is a cointoss between "comfy" story time or unimaginable physical and mental torture just because, say Kurze isn't scary.

>>24245 >>24271 Technically, Kurze isn't the scary one. He's fairly even handed with justice and actually makes an attempt at bonding with some of his brothers, like Fulgrim. But when he lets himself slip into the Night Haunter persona, that's when he gets scary.

>>24272 Anon, primarchs are ten foot tall superhumans clad in armor the size of a moving van carrying weapons that would make a zweihander look like a toothpick. Even if they’re nice guys they’re going to be scary as fuck. Sanguinius and Vulkan are the two nicest primarchs, yet people probably still would piss themselves if they walked in, because one is a ten foot tall space vampire/angel and the other is a ten foot tall asexual nigger from outer space

>>24271 Okay yeah that guy had a rough time of it granted. And then when the ship lands and konrad lets him go? His legion finds the poor bastard and tortures him to death just because. Seriously bad luck there. >>24272 >even handed justice >suicide is a crime >therefore anyone who thinks of killing themselves is guilty of a crime >therefore suicides should be saved, and then brutally gutted. In that order As far as bonding with his brothers goes. I mean he did take a lengthy cruise with Lion el'Johnson once. Other than that he seems to have mostly creeped them all out. Even Corax. And he's so goth other goths think he's a bit of a poseur. But whats he done really. Old night haunter? Conquer a single planet? Hell conquer his own homeworld even? The night lords are the biggest jobbers in the entire space marine legion system. They lose every fight they get in. Just like konrad. >>24273 Well vulkan is one of the tallest, and he has black demon skin and piercing glowing bright red eyes. Intimidating for sure. And Sanguinius? That dude acts all calm, but he's a bigger berserker than fucking Angron. Dollars to donuts he's the one who ripped off three of his dads limbs and eye in a temper tantrum.

>>24272 >>24273 But what if it was Konstance Curze? >>24274 >The night lords are the biggest jobbers in the entire space marine legion system I thought that was the Death Guard? Seeing as the whole heresy just has Mortarion getting his ass kicked/trolled by Jaghatai Khan.

>>24275 At least morty stuck around though. He fought his way to holy Terra, and killed a lot of khans getting there. Jaggy kicked his ass then in a 1v1 fight, but its important to note that he got so wrecked himself in the process he was in a coma for the rest of the siege of Terra. Meanwhile konrad gets most of his legion wrecked fucking around the Istvaan system, says fuck it and goes to start shit himself. Gets captured ~6~7 times, and finally winds up stuck in a stasis capsule for an unlucky trader to find millennia after the Heresy was cold. Tactically he was worse than useless. The reason most people rag on Morty is he let one of legionaries escape Istvaan V and let the loyalists prepare and strike back against Horus before he was really ready. Which was a monumental fuck up and arguably fucked Horus much harder strategically than anything that demented Kurze ever did.

>>24276 Honestly, barring Mortarion and Perturabo, most of the traitor primarchs were just kind of useless to Horus for anything except providing warm bodies in power armor.

>>24277 Sadly very true.

>>24274 >And then when the ship lands and konrad lets him go? His legion finds the poor bastard and tortures him to death just because. It's even worse than that. Curze tells his legion to let the guy go, and then recounts some story to his legion and the guy realizes the one whom Curze needs their forgiveness is Curze himself and blurts that out alongside "you're going to kill yourself, aren't you" so Curze decides to have the legion kill him just because.

>>24267 Yes. And even before those events, there was a whole episode about taking his family to an amusement park. One of the best episodes. Almost as good as the time Goku and Piccolo learned to drive.

>The new Batman film is so shit that people prefer to talk about Dragon Ball and Warhammer 40k in the designated Batman thread Why do these companies not see the humor in what they're doing?

>>24284 Because they only care about making money.

>>24285 They're failing hard to do so though between movie theaters getting fucked with due to Covid and new stuff like streaming and videogames raping their market share Hollywood is in the shitter and there's barely any competition in that entertainment sector. We've gotten to a point where the Poos and Chinks are actually competing, it's gotten that bad. It's going to die, either Disney buys everything and collapses under it's own weight or everyone just starts scaling down projects and actually restructuring how these fucking things are made remains to be see. As of now, they're on the path of collapse, but then again so is the USA, and Hollywood is not much more but a propaganda arm of that at this point.

>>24286 >they cast a fairy as the fairy

>>24286 I would ask why niggers never rape their own culture, but the answer is self evident. They have none, and what little they did attain was lost in a single generation. Niggers not being known for instructing children in anything but rape and theft.

>>24286 The problem is while they like money, they don't care about what people actually want to watch. Not unless you're a producer or tick the right boxes for wokeness.

>>24286 >As of now, they're on the path of collapse, but then again so is the USA, and Hollywood is not much more but a propaganda arm of that at this point. <At this point, being so incredibly (((new))) on a chan board that you think that Hollywood wasn't just a propaganda arm since the silent movie days with masonic directors. Say anon, have you met my cousin Camilla Rhodes she just lives on Mulholland Drive just up from Laurel Canyon, she show you things wouldn't believe down there. Right now Disney like WB having blown off it's best talents over a long time and straddled with loads of debt like plenty other Hollyweirdo studios is at this point indulging in the late stages of Communisim where the propaganda is now replaced with nothing but state funded humiliation rituals at this point. Hollyweird has given up on convincing their audiences of anything but to keep the rights for all of the stuff they bought off of more talented goyim, they've got to lower the floor on the money laundering to the point they need ESG and government funds to do anything that keeps those films falling into public domain. So in turn in their desperation they work for the derp state and globohomo to barely keep the lights on.

>>24292 That's probably the best explanation I've heard about the hollyjew system. And all without ever once using the word jew. Impressive. For the record it really is just the jews though.

>>24291 >>24286 They're short sighted individuals with shorter lives and careers than the corporations they work for. Greenlighting a SJW bomb might be better for networking than greenlighting an actual good movie. It might destroy the company, but it will please some other people who may be able to hook you up with a new job or a new replacement for Epstein Island. Meanwhile, not doing this may get you cancelled or fired, even if it would be better for the company. So the company does better, but you lose your job and some of your network connections. Selfishness and short sightedness.

>>24294 Yeah it's all an incestuous cesspit of failures sucking each other off for favors.

>>24292 >chan You're one to talk about being new.

>>24286 Hold the fuck up! This isn't a Disney movie. Just out of curiosity, I decided to look up the trailer for the film, and low and behold, THERE ISN'T A NIGGER IN THE DISNEY LIVE-ACTION REMAKE OF CINDERELLA. There is a nigger in the movie, the king's instructor, but no other diversity hires in the film. In addition, the Disney film came out back in 2015. So, where is the Fairy God Nigger coming from? FUCKING AMAZON: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x835bk8

>>24286 >>24297 Oh, Sony is involved as well.

>>24298 >>24286 Wasn't this called Sneak-arella where the slippers were sneakers?

>>24299 Different movie but from Disney, yes.

Have another Joker trying way too hard.

>>24303 >Almost fifteen years since the Dark Knight and people are still trying to ape Heath Ledger while playing the Joker. Why can't Hollywood be original?

>>24304 Because, ironically, Ledger's performance was something that was unique at the time and well acted, and resulted in film winning dozens of awards; SO you have these wannabes who want the same fame, and they figure that the only way to succeed is by aping original concepts without even the slightest effort to make it original or different.

>>24305 Problem is Ledger's Joker wasn't even Joker. He was a crazy goon at best. Didn't have any of the characteristics in look or behavior that made the character likable in people's minds. But the casual audience is full of ignorant morons so they ate it up while acting like Nolan's trilogy is the peak of cinema.

>>24307 You gotta just stop at this point. It's embarrassing.

>>24211 Normalnigger I just post what I want, if I gave a shit about le socializing I would've post in the regular cancerous SNS. >you're an X so you must like other Xs Fuck off collectivist. >want him done better I had discussion earlier with some anons how can we improve Bruceshit despite my hatred of his lameass character because I appreciate good writing. >>24233 >>24240 >NON-CANON PROTOTYPE We have gone through this already you illiterate. The first Batman comics are as much as canon as the later inconsistent hackery of Bob Kane and Bill finger despite your denial. >I don't want Joker forever escalating his crimes I already pointed out how Joker to begin with done sever crimes and he was mass murdering psychopath, but again you're an illiterate moron who don't read comics. >>24284 >Batfaggots are bunch of dumb weebs who don't read (western) comic books FIFY >>24286 >They're failing hard to do so Is it relevant/true regarding Da Batman movie this thread is about? >>24296 The overuse of buzzwords also implies that. >>24304 That >>24305 and Hollywood have no reason to be original and rather have safe bet using the same copyrighted franchises they already have which is also cheaper and far easier than registering new trademarks and coming up with something new. >>24306 >But the casual audience Have you not realized yet that the all 3DPD movies/shows are for casualfags?

>>24303 Better than Jared Leto joker.

>>24309 >The first Batman comics are as much as canon as the later inconsistent hackery of Bob Kane and Bill finger despite your denial. Actually they're not. Not that that should matter, but the earliest comics took place on Earth-Two. Literally not the same Batman as the one who has appeared in stories since the '50s. He died in the '80s and his universe was destroyed a few years later. But of course that doesn't mean the stories are any less legitimate. >Batfaggots are bunch of dumb weebs who don't read (western) comic books No, I sperged out about Dragon Ball in this thread because I do read comics but am never going to watch this movie since modern capeshit movies are all just SJW propaganda and I heard there is shit about "white privilege" in it. So I ignored the thread until I saw someone ask a question about Dragon Ball, which I am autistic enough to answer. It's not about what is a prototype, it's about what is the definitive version. The entire reason Earth-Two was used as a concept for characters like Batman and Superman was to reconcile the early elements that didn't mesh with the "definitive" elements that appeared later. Most elements from Detective #27 and other Earth-Two stories are still canon to Earth-One as well, but a few things aren't. Batman killing relatively nonchalantly is one thing that was made non-canon since it clashed with later characterization that became central to the character. Even if it was brought back as being canon, it would feel weird because it clashes with the iconic version of the character. Maybe they could keep those stories as fully canon and say that he did kill early in his career and then stopped, but even that clashes hard with how he has been characterized for his entire publishing history except for his first year.

>>24314 >I sperged out about Dragon Ball in this thread because I do read comics but am never going to watch this movie since modern capeshit movies are all just SJW propaganda and I heard there is shit about "white privilege" in it. I heard it quoted an (in)famous book by the name of "white fragility."

>>24312 Not exactly high expectations.

>>24303 >>24306 He's discount Hannibal Lector at this point.

>>24320 It's not even like he's some brilliant manipulator. Every faggot writer just keeps writing Joker as this Gary Stu embodiment of chaos that can do whatever he want just because.

Why did they turn Joker in Ron Pearlman?

>>24330 Thought it was two face for a moment when he was chatting with riddler due to the face. Unfortunately it's just yet more Joker wank. You would never know Batman has a huge and varied rogue's gallery by the way they pimp out the same few guys. Was hoping for Zsasz or Hush.

>>24367 I'd take Zsasz or even Pyg. Hell Riddler should've just been Anarky considering he's nothing like Riddler should be. Could've been a great chance to actually use more than the same 3 or villains already used in live action.

>>24238 If batman should kill the spiderman should kill too. How many lifes did goblin take?

>>24397 Off the top of my head, Rhino, Doc Ock, Lizard, Morbius, Jackal, & Hobgoblin have killed people as well. Batman & Spider-man are similar in that they're heroes formed from tragic loss of loved ones. Doesn't mean they should kill. Plus, unlike Batman, Spider-man isn't the only hero in New York. It shouldn't be Spider-man's responsibility to kill villains. Punisher should absolutely be but can't have that in serialized comics.

>>24399 Besides, most of Spiderman's villains are tragic villains that could be redeemed. The only time the spiderman villains became irredemable was when try hard authors tried to go edgy on spiderman.

>>24400 Yeah most of them genuinely can be redeemed or cured. Save for those like Norman Osborn who genuinely are just evil to the core. But again that doesn't mean Spidey should kill them. Hell any of the other Avengers could've done it easily.

>>24401 I still remember when Norman Osborn was his own tragic character, a scientist trapped with a maniac in his mind, instead of shitty mixture of Lex Luthor, Joker and Two Face.

>>24402 Yeah. But that's comics. Gotta keep making things worse by continuing to escalate.

>>24399 I mean Punisher works for a very specific type of villain. How's friendly Neighbourhood Spiderman going to deal with someone like say Punisher Max's The Slavers?

>>24405 That's why Spider-man doesn't deal with real world grounded issues. That's the job for the street levels. Someone like Moon Knight or Daredevil can kill without a problem because they're gritty heroes that deal with more grounded stories. Frank WAS too & in a perfect world he'd be the answer to when supervillains get too out of hand.

>>24406 I think the issue of supervillains getting too out of hand is retarded to begin with. Take the Joker for example, the edgier versions of him who are gary stu god tier terrorist masterminds going postal every minute and having a massive bodycount. Batman's moral code doesn't kill, fine, great, it's a good part of his character. What's stopping a judge from putting the guy in an electric chair, or him getting lynched by a gang of giga niggers in a prison, or a cellmate getting sick of his shit and just shivving the guy(like that one serial killer cult leader who had just that happen to him). Heroes aren't judge jury and executioner, fine. Where are the actual judges, juries and executioners when certain supervillains are foiled and captured time and time again?

>>24407 You ask what's stopping the law from actually punishing supervillains? The answer is quite simple. Serialized comics that never end. So villains can't die. That would hurt now nonexistent sales too much. Even if anyone does die, they come back. Even if a villain is reformed, the status quo demands they return to their old ways. In mainline comics you just can't have that permanence no matter how much it'd make since for Joker to be gunned down by Gotham police or executed for his endless crime sheet.

>>24408 Isn't that solved by just moving onto the next Batman villain? Which even The Lego Batman Movie' joked about. How Bats has everything from Firefly, Ragdol, and Manbat to "sillier" villains like Calenderman, the Mad Hatter, and the Clock King. Or would that not suit the writers because they all have to make edgy grim-dark versions of each of those characters; in a story about a corporate billionaire dressing upon in a mask and underpants during the night with watching cars, utility belt, and snack food.

>>24409 That would only work for villains that have no real pull or staying power. You can't mistreat Joker as you could with Manbat or Arkham Knight.

>>24410 >You can't mistreat Joker Yes, you can. He's been done to death. The only way you can keep Joker around for very long, at this point, is if you have a steady flow in the story showing him gradually going from a silly villain doing dangerous pranks to when he becomes a full-blown nut that deserves and will receive death penalty. Anything outside of the should result in the Joker being a temporary villain how just sees half a dozen outings before he's killed off.

>>24411 No you can't. Because if you kill him off, you kill off a big money maker (in theory/before everyone gave up on comics). That's what I'm saying. Sure you can kill him in out of the mainline comics but not in the mainline. Same reason why you can't just have Harley Quinn give up her criminal persona to live a normal life. The whore clown image makes money.

>>24410 >>24411 >>24412 Wasn't there a crossover comic with Marvel where Joker was cornered by the Punisher and pissed his pants when he realized that Frank was just going to cap his ass? That's one way you could keep the Joker around but not have him turn into fucking Kefka the clown god, have him be crazy, but not to the point he lacks self-preservation and is actually a coward when it comes to the thought of someone actually killing him.

>>24412 >Because if you kill him off, you kill off a big money maker Except no one is buying the comics, THAT'S THE ISSUE. And, it's been an issue since the 80's. Characters never stay dead, story lessons are forgotten or reversed, there is nothing about the comics that ever has any permanence. And, the one of the ways to fix the comics IS TO CREATE PERMANENCE. To create punishments, to create resolutions, to make each issue the point of no return because what happens in that issue will effect everything going forward. To defy the standard of having an ongoing serial and create a story that will, eventually, have an end. >>24413 The one problem is that, as far as "pros" are concerned, Joker would then be relegated to a second class position as Bats then places higher priorities upon the rogues that will kill people. The only reason that wouldn't happen is if we go back to the Gold and Silver era of the comics having the ability to still be silly in their concepts.

>>24414 >>24411 And, before you bring up: <Well, what about the movies, games, and cartoons? All of those have exhausted the good material circa 2012; and everything since has been delving into the material that people hate. IOW, the stories and ideas that killed the comics in the first place.

>>24414 Correct. >>24413 Yeah. It's fucking stupid how Batman is written to not even let other people do what needs to be done. It's one thing to have his own morals but to save actual mass murderers from permanent justice is stupid. And yes the easy way to fix this is to stop making villains so dark.

>>24399 >Plus, unlike Batman, Spider-man isn't the only hero in New York. In the comics there are like 20 different superheroes running around Gotham City at any given time. There's Batman, four Robins, three or four Batgirls, sometimes a Batwing or two, and at least one Green Lantern. And that's only counting the guys who are at least B or C-Listers. If you want to get really autistic with it, there are frequently other guys like Hitman and Section 8 and Wild Dog or other guys that casuals would have never heard of. And there's like a 50% chance that Jonah Hex or some other character that should never be interacting with Batman or capeshit in general happens to be in Gotham City at the time, too. Batman may or may not feel like letting Red Hood and a few others kill villains on any given day (by simply ignoring or de-prioritizing them). On other days, he will treat them like worse villains than the villains they're trying to kill. I guess it depends on how busy he is that day. >>24402 Norman Osborn was also one of the first villains to get that kind of treatment. That was still the era when most of Spider-Man's villains didn't have real names, let alone backstories. Except The Big Man. A sorely underrated villain and story arc. >>24406 One of my favorite older examples of this is the time The Enforcers fought Daredevil, who was just beginning to become a bit more hardcore and step out of his alternate-Spider-Man era. So Montana, Ox, and Fancy Dan think they're just gonna get punched a few time and trade some quips, but then Daredevil just kills Ox. Suddenly Montana and Fancy Dan realize shit is getting real, and The Marvel Universe isn't as safe as it used to be. But at least they can just go down to the pound and get a new Ox. >>24407 >What's stopping a judge from putting the guy in an electric chair, or him getting lynched by a gang of giga niggers in a prison, or a cellmate getting sick of his shit and just shivving the guy(like that one serial killer cult leader who had just that happen to him). The general answer is corruption. Joker and his goons buy off judges and cops and prosecutors and DAs and prison guards, and if it isn't Joker directly doing it, it's old school mafia guys and supervillains like Joker just end up taking advantage of it. And when that isn't enough, then the answer is that Joker is comically lucky. >>24408 There are villains who reform or die and stay dead. Many times the characters who reform are the ones who die and stay dead. But then they just get a new guy to take up his mantle. The original Crimson Dynamo was a cool character in early Iron Man stories. Actually, if you want to talk about Iron Man villains who reform, obviously the best examples would be Hawkeye and Black Widow. And if you're talking about Avengers like them, then you gotta talk about Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, and Wonder Man, while we're at it. And speaking of X-Men, there are characters like Rogue, or one of the biggest examples ever, Wolverine, who was originally a Hulk villain. You don't remember or count cases where the status quo changed because then those changes became the new status quo. >>24411 They already did that. They then decided that the next logical step was to start making him a vaguely cosmic entity that cannot be erased because he is too important to fifth dimensional reality or whatever. I mean they don't say it like that, but essentially, they just get metatextual and essentially make his real-world popularity into a literal superpower, albeit vaguely and masked through a couple layers of metaphor. >>24414 >there is nothing about the comics that ever has any permanence. There is, but you don't remember or count those things because they become the new status quo. It is true there are cash cow characters that will never die and stay dead, or will never permanently switch allegiance, many characters have done exactly that, including characters who are now extremely famous. But yes, upon reaching a certain level of fame and popularity (which few characters actually reach), there is a degree of permanence that is granted. However, many elements around them can and do change. Batman keeps having a Robin because Robin is too famous a concept to ever abandon entirely, but he's on his fifth Robin, which is a significant change if you actually care about the stories. He fights a guy named Clayface, which for some reason is a popular enough concept that it keeps coming back, but there have been at least four or five Clayfaces off the top of my head, and the current one is very different now than he was originally, he changed quite significantly. That change stuck around, despite being introduced decades after the character. >>24416 Batman would let the state kill Joker if he was legitimately found guilty and sentenced properly in a court of law. Unfortunately, the one time he was found properly guilty (and not not guilty by reason of insanity) and sentenced to death, it turned out it was for the one crime he didn't actually do, so Batman saved him.

>>24416 >Batman is written to not even let other people do what needs to be done. That's why they gave Jason his own standalone.

>>24419 Yes but Jason doesn't get to kill any major villains in those either.

>>24314 >never going to watch this movie It has some lulz worthy scenes which I need to watch , reading anon' spoilers. >So I ignored the thread until I saw someone ask a question about Dragon Ball, which I am autistic enough to answer My bad then and fair enough, would've been better to discuss Batman comics instead of going off-topic. >definitive version Considering Batman get endless and non-stop comics, reboots and whatever, can it really be said there's definitive version? I guess you could argue there are certain elements that appear more often and seen as the typical ones. Would it be right to say that Joker being mass murder psychopath and Batman stupidly refuse to kill him is one of those reoccurring elements? >But of course that doesn't mean the stories are any less legitimate IMO, going through the very first/original version of a franchise/character is an integral part and means to judge it. I mean, if the original work is good and later versions are bad then they don't reflect it, in contrast, if the original work was bad and later versions are good then they are the outline and not the norm. >>24397 >>24399 I'm still at early stages of Ditko' Spiderman good so far, does it happen there too? >>24408 >Serialized comics that never end. So villains can't die. That would hurt now nonexistent sales too much Some Golden Age comics never had reoccurring villains and instead always had new villain each issue which required far greater creativity...I wonder if it would be better to go back to it. >>24414 THIS >>24416 >And yes the easy way to fix this is to stop making villains so dark That's a great option which will make capeshit wholesome and kid friendly (in the good way) again. >>24417 >The general answer is corruption Even so, as an anon suggested >>24183 , regular citizens could kill him instead. >They then decided that the next logical step was to start making him a vaguely cosmic entity that cannot be erased because he is too important to fifth dimensional reality or whatever. I mean they don't say it like that, but essentially, they just get metatextual and essentially make his real-world popularity into a literal superpower, albeit vaguely and masked through a couple layers of metaphor. Another proof that Batwankers are subhumans. >it turned out it was for the one crime he didn't actually do, so Batman saved him That's fucking retarded...if Bat autismo cares so much about proper legal justice, then he shouldn't become a vigilante in the first place.

>>24423 I'm unaware how early on you get villains killing. I'd assume Green Goblin would be the earliest. The good thing about Golden Age comics is they worked in a way that didn't take themselves too seriously most of the time AND they actually surprisingly had progress with characters like Batman actually dying & Robin taking his place. So essentially the easiest fix would be to go back to that philosophy where everything isn't trying so hard to be ridiculously dark without permanence. Instead having actual permanence but more lighthearted stories played straight. Like Batman The Brave & The Bold.

>>24423 >Considering Batman get endless and non-stop comics, reboots and whatever, can it really be said there's definitive version? Yes. The definitive version does not rely on what is canon to editorial, it relies on what is "canon" to the general public, to our minds, to our collective consciousness. Canon Superman almost never changes clothes in a phonebooth, but the definitive Superman, the one that exists in our collective consciousness, does. >Would it be right to say that Joker being mass murder psychopath and Batman stupidly refuse to kill him is one of those reoccurring elements? I'd say yes. However, Batman as a franchise is quite flexible, even in the collective consciousness, so Batman and Joker can be both goofy and serious. But there are still underlying elements that remain in both situations, and one is that Batman doesn't kill. Even in movies when he does kill, it is done in a way so the audience hardly realizes it (like when he kills a few goons in the '89 movie), or an attempt is made to say he isn't really killing (like Batman Begins), or later stories explicitly say he shouldn't have done it (like Batman Forever having Batman say that killing the man who killed his parents, AKA Joker, didn't help him, and trying to get Robin to not repeat his mistake). Movies have frequently broken this no killing rule, but that rule is still ingrained enough that when the movies break it, they have to find ways around it, and can't just ignore it entirely. Even the examples I listed still end up feeling weird, sometimes more than others. >I mean, if the original work is good and later versions are bad then they don't reflect it, in contrast, if the original work was bad and later versions are good then they are the outline and not the norm. Yeah, but given the massive success of Batman after he stopped killing, there is a strong argument to be made that those later stories are better than those very early stories. Go and read those early stories. It's only one year worth. Batman didn't even have his own solo-series yet, so it's not like these are whole issues you need to read. They're very interesting stories, and they lay down many classic elements. You can judge for yourself. But as much as I like some of those early stories, there are later stories I like as much or more. And maybe it shouldn't even be about "quality" because that is subjective. It's partially about popularity, or more specifically, about cultural penetration. Batman doesn't wear purple gloves, except for arguably in his absolute earliest adventures, and if the next Justice League movie had Batman wearing purple gloves, and there was no explanation, but it was just treated as his normal design for that movie, it would be fucking weird. Batman doesn't wear purple gloves (except for in his very earliest adventures). Also, reminder that the first Batman story is literal plagiarism. It's incredibly close. Go read The Case of the Chemical Syndicate (the first Batman story) and Partners of Peril (the Shadow story it plagiarises). So long as we are saying the earliest version of Batman is best, we should note that. Look, I'm autistic as fuck for capeshit, and that involves being autistic as fuck for the early elements too. I wish I could get a job at DC just so I could fix The Ultra-Humanite, and make him an integral part of the early history of Superman and the DCU, as he was in the original comics. But now the definitive version of Superman doesn't fight The Ultra-Humanite, he fights Luthor and Brainiac, who have essentially made him obsolete. And the definitive version of The Ultra-Humanite isn't an old crippled man who body-swaps as an exaggerated example of brains vs brawn, he's instead an albino gorilla with a giant fucked-up swollen skull. I think it's dumb and I'd try to fix it. But I acknowledge that some elements are more famous and integral to the character than others, and even if you want to bring back older elements, the new elements that took over can't just be disregarded. In 1986, DC tried to take Superman back to his roots and remove most of the weird shit that piled up over the years. No more Krypto or Supergirl or other Kryptonians. No more Mister Mxyzptlk or other weird cosmic stuff like that. No more flying through space or flying through time or sneezing galaxies into dust. Make Superman much weaker, much closer to his original power levels. Have him be the last Kryptonian again, like he was originally. Have him fight mostly scientists and gangsters again, maybe with the occasional alien, but not many. No more saying that Superman used to be Superboy, because that's silly and wasn't introduced until 1945. And going back to the roots sounded like a good idea at first. But it turned out that people liked Supergirl, despite how she completely ruined the concept of Superman being the last son of Krypton. People liked Mxyzptlk and the extreme power levels and cosmic battles. And slowly, over the course of 25 years, all the old elements returned. Because those things all informed the definitive version of the character. There are elements introduced later that didn't stick, but there are elements that did. The things that stick are generally the good ones. That's why they stuck. People liked them and they sold more comics. Would it be better to remove The Kents from Superman's backstory, since in his first appearance, they were just some people who dropped him off at the orphanage and didn't raise him? No, they are a good addition and have become integral to additional depth that the character has gained over the years. Would it be better to remove Batman's origin, since it wasn't introduced until nearly a year after his first appearance? No, that is flatly ridiculous. >I'm still at early stages of Ditko' Spiderman good so far, does it happen there too? Ditko Spider-Man is great, but The Green Goblin is vastly expanded under Ditko's replacement, John Romita Sr., and under a writer who came shortly after Romita, Gerry Conway. Though note that Conway's run is nearly 100 issues after Ditko's. But while Romita and Conway are very different from Ditko, they are both also excellent. >Some Golden Age comics never had reoccurring villains and instead always had new villain each issue which required far greater creativity...I wonder if it would be better to go back to it. Comics have always had mostly original villains in each story. Nobody cares about those villains, generally. The ones that recur are the popular ones, so an original villain will become a recurring one and then you won't count him anymore. And frankly, the recurring ones are the ones that, generally, end up having more depth, simply due to more time to develop them, so they and their stories end up being more memorable. >Even so, as an anon suggested >>24183 , regular citizens could kill him instead. Corruption means Joker has tons of goons, including cops. Or Joker would have noticed their plot the whole time, and turn it around so it's now his plot and he is just messing with them. And if that doesn't satisfy you, then what would happen is someone who should have a good shot at Joker would end up failing due to some unlucky circumstance, and then Joker would laugh. >That's fucking retarded...if Bat autismo cares so much about proper legal justice, then he shouldn't become a vigilante in the first place. He just wants to beat the hell out of criminals and leave them for the cops. He doesn't want them to be falsely framed for crimes they didn't do. Framing someone is worse than beating them up, as far as Batman is concerned.

>>24430 >I'm unaware how early on you get villains killing. I'd assume Green Goblin would be the earliest. The Cat Burglar who killed Uncle Ben. There are plenty of deaths in early stories, but the stories don't usually treat them with extreme gravitas, because the stories are a bit more lighthearted in general. Though there is one famous example in Ditko's run that isn't The Cat Burglar or The Green Goblin. I guess I won't spoil it though. It's a great story and hopefully anon agrees and recognizes when he gets to it. The highlight of Ditko's run. >The good thing about Golden Age comics is they worked in a way that didn't take themselves too seriously most of the time AND they actually surprisingly had progress with characters like Batman actually dying & Robin taking his place. That happened in the '80s after Silver and Bronze Age writers started taking themselves more seriously and getting autistic with continuity, to the degree that they invented Earth-Two as a concept, partially to explain differences between the early versions of characters like Batman, and the definitive versions which had shifted enough that they now no longer matched their earliest appearances. Earth-Two Batman is called the "Golden Age" Batman, but his marriage to Catwoman, the birth of his daughter, his death, and his Robin growing up and replacing him, are all Bronze Age stories from the early '80s, when main-series Batman was on the Justice League and doing wacky space-shit, while his solo-series stuff was already well into its grimdark era. The Dark Knight Returns came out only a couple of years later. If you want permanence, go and read Silver and Bronze age Earth-Two stories. It's the original characters (well technically not but effectively yes), but now they've grown older, and since they aren't the main versions anymore, they're allowed to change more. It starts with Flash of Two Worlds, where we find the original Flash has married his long-time love interest. Then you get things like Crisis on Earth-One and the other yearly two-part Justice League of America stories where they meet the Justice Society, and major changes happen there, with one of the biggest earlier examples probably being stuff that happens to Black Canary. Eventually they brought back All-Star Comics (the original series the Justice Society was from) and later did All-Star Squadron, and that's where most of the deep lore related to Golden Age characters is actually from, not from the Golden Age itself, but from Bronze Age stories about them, after Silver Age stories brought them back. And they stuck around until modern day, but they keep dying off one at a time, and now there are only a couple Golden Age characters that are still alive, and frankly, it's stretching disbelief. But let's just all pretend Alan Scott died off-screen some time before DC ruined him a few years ago, okay? At least the original Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman get to rest in peace.

>>24437 >on what is "canon" to the general public, to our minds, to our collective consciousness By that definition, it's subjective and very unsteady as it can change through time. Hence, as I argued there's no definitive version. >>>I mean, if the original work is good and later versions are bad then they don't reflect it, in contrast, if the original work was bad and later versions are good then they are the outline and not the norm. >Yeah, but given the massive success of Batman after he stopped killing, there is a strong argument to be made that those later stories are better than those very early stories. >There are elements introduced later that didn't stick, but there are elements that did. The things that stick are generally the good ones. That's why they stuck. Again, as above you failed to refute my point, since later versions can't be considered as definitive, then the original version is the certain one to look up to. >Go and read those early stories >Also, reminder that the first Batman story is literal plagiarism No thanks, I've read enough of Bill Finger' and Bob Kane' hackery, both the early and some of the independent Batman issues and they both suck hard. I don't believe those plagiarizing hacks can write anything good. >"quality" There isn't, unless you mean QUALITY which it has ton of it. >that is subjective False, postmodernist! There are characteristics that define good writing and could be appreciated, even if it not one's cup of tea. The inconsistency in Kane&Finger writing doesn't allow for natural and steady progress of the plot, Joker being mass murder psychopath with ridiculous plotarmor and never getting death penalty, as well Batman deploying a child solider both are perfect example for an asinine and poor world building/setting and an insult to the whole capeshit genre where justice supposed to prevail frequently unlike real world and this case even less than real world. It's objectively bad and poor writing. >It's partially about popularity, or more specifically, about cultural penetration Liking Batman is the most plebeian choice in capeshit. >I wish I could get a job at DC just so I could fix Anon you don't have to give a damn about licenseshit, just write and post your own fanart comic, fuck copyright laws. >Ditko Spider-Man is great, but The Green Goblin is vastly expanded under Ditko's replacement Glad to hear, hope it means that it's safe to assume he isn't a hack. Joker or equivalent Green Goblin situation as anons mentioned is terrible and painfully dumb. >And frankly, the recurring ones are the ones that, generally, end up having more depth, simply due to more time to develop them, so they and their stories end up being more memorable. And then they can turn into Gary Stu level of insanity such as overrated Joker. >Joker would have noticed their plot the whole time, and turn it around so it's now his plot and he is just messing with them Which also brings me back to the point above. >And if that doesn't satisfy you, then what would happen is someone who should have a good shot at Joker would end up failing due to some unlucky circumstance, and then Joker would laugh Again anon, many citizens have the right to be pissed off on Joker and are willing to kill him, what you're suggesting, is nothing but another asinine plotarmor and Gary Stu bullshit, you solved nothing. >He just wants to beat the hell out of criminals and leave them for the cops. He doesn't want them to be falsely framed for crimes they didn't do. Framing someone is worse than beating them up, as far as Batman is concerned How is finally giving death penalty to the mass murdering Joker is a bad thing?! Beating up Joker and putting him in jail has been proven again and again as pointless, the only moral and rational solution is to kill him. So to concluded and as I said before, Batwat is immoral and also behave irrationally and selfishly, aka asshole psychopath, as he clearly isn't driven by sense of justice (or at least not distorted one which doesn't help his case being supposedly a superhero or even a good sane person) and willing to help and save the innocents. So much for Batwat wanting to prevent the tragedy of his parents from reoccurring and save others from going through it. This is one of the main reasons why he is such an awful character.

Got my Bruce Thomasovich Wayne, he is wonderfully shitty as I expected! The head sculpt looks actually a lot better in person than the promo pics, I think does look similar to the actor though my copy has its lips printed slightly to the side, but that just add to the general shittiness and miserable attitude which is why I bought him. My main gripe is that the hands aren't cast in skin color plastic and instead are painted in it which is absolutely retarded, otherwise it's not a bad toy quality wise. I really hope McFarlane would make the Alfred of this movie as well, considering the success of it. And speaking of the movie, it's barely April and they already announced that it's the highest grossing film of '22…though, honestly, I doubt any other film could top it, especially in Current Year. P.S. despite McFarlane endless Batwank, this is actually their very first Bruceshit and what an excellent choice they made!

>>24676 Oh good lord we're getting more reddit Batman. Great.

>>24680 That's not a good thing.

>>24682 Only thing worse than a namefag is an rping namefag.

>>24710 Kill yourself

>>24674 >By that definition, it's subjective and very unsteady as it can change through time. Hence, as I argued there's no definitive version. It can change throughout time, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. >then the original version is the certain one to look up to. Have you ever looked at what (Marvel's) Captain Marvel was originally like? That character and series got retooled a bunch of times before it landed on the version people actually like. The original is most definitely not the definitive one. Have you ever seen the first appearances of Sinestro or Hector Hammond? The former didn't have a yellow ring and the latter didn't have a giant head. Hell, do you really think Jay Garrick or Alan Scott are the definitive versions of Flash or Green Lantern? They're great characters of their own, but the later Flashes and Green Lanterns are clearly more definitive. Have you ever seen the original Superman? No, I don't mean the one that wasn't adopted by The Kents and couldn't fly or do heat vision or super-breath (although that's clearly not the definitive version too, since everyone knows Superman flies and to have him not fly already makes him "different" from what people expect from Superman). I mean the version of Superman that was a bald criminal that gets psychic powers. The original. Not the definitive version. >No thanks, I've read enough of Bill Finger' and Bob Kane' hackery Bill Finger has done many excellent stories, both for Batman and with non-Batman material. He is also the creator of Green Lantern. The original Alan Scott version, not the later Green Lantern Corps version, which is a ripoff of Lensmen. Finger's first Batman story is plagiarism, but he did other non-plagiarised stories later. And many are good. But you seem to agree with me here that they aren't the best Batman stories ever. They aren't the "definitive" version of the character. By all accounts, Bob Kane had very little to do with Batman aside from choosing what ghost writers to hire. >The inconsistency in Kane&Finger writing doesn't allow for natural and steady progress of the plot All the stories are short standalone things. There doesn't need to be much of a continuing plot. That was standard for decades, not just in comics but in most other media, and it was fine. A series of short stories is a perfectly acceptable form of series. >Joker being mass murder psychopath with ridiculous plotarmor and never getting death penalty He's more of a serial killer than a mass murderer. His plot armor works with the tone the stories have. >as well Batman deploying a child solider both are perfect example for an asinine and poor world building/setting Again, this works perfectly well with the tone the stories present. Obviously, it's not presented as a child soldier situation until deconstructivists came along decades later, after the tone of the series had shifted very significantly. People say early Batman was "dark," and it was certainly darker than some later stuff, but it wasn't "dark" by modern standards of "dark" comics." It just wasn't as goofy as comics thought of as "goofy." But frankly, it became that relatively quickly, as the creators caught on to what sold and shifted things in that direction. >It's objectively bad and poor writing. You've just stated story elements you don't like and said it's objectively bad writing. No, Batman having a sidekick is not objectively bad writing. That's a ridiculous claim to make, especially when you don't back it up at all. But frankly, looking at the impact Robin has had, it's absurd to say that the entire concept is bad writing. >Liking Batman is the most plebeian choice in capeshit. This is true. It also has nothing to do with my point. >Anon you don't have to give a damn about licenseshit, just write and post your own fanart comic, fuck copyright laws. Yeah but ain't nobody got time for that, unless they got paid, or had a chance of getting paid. >And then they can turn into Gary Stu level of insanity such as overrated Joker. >Again anon, many citizens have the right to be pissed off on Joker and are willing to kill him, what you're suggesting, is nothing but another asinine plotarmor and Gary Stu bullshit, you solved nothing. I didn't say I solved anything. I told you what happens, since you don't read the books. Those are the reasons that Joker always ends up surviving. While you think it's all stupid, and sometimes it is, you're disregarding execution entirely. The effectiveness of any of these stories is all in the execution, and not purely in the plot elements. A plot element that works in one tone, for example, may not work in another. Batman overall has a history of being proven to work in very different tones, which has resulted in different things happening but all (or many) making sense in context. >How is finally giving death penalty to the mass murdering Joker is a bad thing?! It was just explained to you. They were convicting him for the wrong crime. Batman had to find the other person who framed him. Don't get mad at me. I'm just telling you what his motivation was. It's a controversial story for a reason. Of course, in context it does make more sense than just saying the most basic plot here, but even then, it was controversial to people who actually read it.

>>24727 >He's more of a serial killer than a mass murderer. He used to be, but at this point his death count puts him in the mass murder category.

>>24746 Yes, Joker has done mass murder many times since, but anon was talking about the Kane and Finger era specifically.

>>24727 >but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist It does, because again the definitive version will keep changing. >the version people actually like >since everyone knows Superman flies and to have him not fly already makes him "different" from what people expect from Superman I see you define definitive version as the popular one, but as explained above new versions being added and they end up gaining popularity over the old ones so there's never one static definitive version. It will always keep changing, meanwhile the original version will always stay as the original and the source for these later versions, not matter how much they keep deviating from it. >they aren't the best Batman stories ever. They aren't the "definitive" version of the character Good version also doesn't equal definitive one, because just like with your earlier definition based on popularity, new better version will come out and considered as the best one. >Bill Finger has done many excellent stories >doubt. png The cringey one-liners, the nonsensical metaphors ("like an avenging black cloud"), illogical causation and effect (batman tells Joker to "stop" so Joker stopped despite having no means to make him stop or persuade him to do so, or Joker "accidentally" and out of nowhere got pushed against a building which in turn pushed the knife into his chest and yet he doesn't die) which were all prevalent in Batman. Not to mention, how the genius paired a character that was inspired by Robin Hood with a rich character. >All the stories are short standalone things There aren't, as we both know they kept changing Batman and adding things to it while disregarding previous stories as these were published consistent and connected issues. Take for example how Batman tries to kill Joker in certain issue, then in the following one where he Joker almost burned Robin to death he doesn't and in the issue afterwards Batman once again tries to kill him, it doesn't make any sense and it's ridiculously inconsistent. >There doesn't need to be much of a continuing plot True, but again Batman did have changes which means there was a continuing plot, just not coherent one. >He's more of a serial killer than a mass murderer Doesn't make it a lot better, he already killed 10 people including a fucking judge and chief police in his first two stories while attempting to kill Robin twice, he should've gotten the chair already by the first story! >His plot armor works with the tone the stories have No, they don't! The dissonance between grave scenarios and the happy-go-lucky attitude is what make this world setting so asinine! In the first story of Joker, after Joker killed people and was about to kill Robin, Batman rhymes as he is chasing him or in later story Batman making a joke about hurting Joker after he almost burned Robin to death and there's that time where Batman and Robin broke the 4th wall and made a joke about the plotarmor of Joker who is serial killer that keeps escaping and killing people, truly amusing and not disturbing in any way. >Again, this works perfectly well with the tone the stories present See above >it's not presented as a child soldier situation Obviously, he wouldn't admit it (unlike the plotarmor of Joker). It's about what actually happen in these stories and they do prove this point; Dick is barely an 8-year-old, trained an entire year to fight criminals (and sometimes even kill them) which results in life threatening situations and he get severely beaten and one time (maybe it happened more than once, most likely) almost died! >Batman was "dark," and it was certainly darker than some later stuff > It just wasn't as goofy as comics thought of as "goofy. It's basically bad and unaware black humor. > it became that relatively quickly, as the creators caught on to what sold and shifted things in that direction I would hardly say that Joker killing 10 people and keep trying to murder Robin as a shift in direction. >but it wasn't "dark" by modern standards of "dark" comics At least they keep the serious tone. >You've just stated story elements you don't like and said it's objectively bad writing No, I've made arguments, not statements and explained myself, maybe I should've been more detailed as I am with my arguments above. >No, Batman having a sidekick is not objectively bad writing Of course, it's not, but again in this setting when an 8-year-old boy get harshly beaten by adults, finds himself almost getting killed every now and then and indeed almost got killed while supposedly having more easy-going attitude to the story and being belong to the superhero genre where justice prevails and superheroes supposed to be good people, by all means it is objectively bad writing. >looking at the impact Robin has had I'm not certain about it, for character that solely created to be kid friendly and is Batman' right hand, he doesn't seem to be popular as should be (which brings us back to how popular based definitive version keep changing, he appeared in barely one failed Batman movie and sorta in the end of Nolan trilogy). Even in the days where he was inseparable from Batman, he wasn't that popular and people mostly cared about Batman, it seems that in the end of the day Robin is just an accessory for Batman. If anything, Robin is more popular when he is part of a team, rather than being Batman' sidekick. >It also has nothing to do with my point You falsely connected quality and definitive version with popularity, so by these parameters Batman is truly the best superhero, which he clearly isn't. Furthermore, according to this judgement, currently Nolan Trilogy is the best Batman media or maybe it's the new movie... who knows. >Yeah but ain't nobody got time for that

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If you find time to write in IBs, you can find time for more productive things. >I didn't say I solved anything You tried to excuse it, and by that either solving the problem or apparently denying its existence in the first place. >those are the reasons that Joker always ends up surviving. While you think it's all stupid Because they're. >you're disregarding execution entirely. The effectiveness of any of these stories is all in the execution, and not purely in the plot elements. A plot element that works in one tone, for example, may not work in another There can't be good execution, if the base of the plot is flawed! Execution is inherent to the plot and if the plot is badly written and doesn't make sense then so will be the execution. Again, the idea that Joker can just keep escaping from prison and killing people forever is completely dumb and contradicting to the basis of superhero genre where the good guys are able to defeat the bad guys, and no arresting Joker and sending him back to prison just so he can escape and kill again is not defeating him! >Batman had to find the other person who framed him >had to No, he didn't! Just like no one pulled a trigger back to his head forcing him to become a superhero! Batman is just a deranged selfish asshole who never got over his parents' death' and fail to commit fighting injustice and prevent additional tragedies like his own. >It was just explained to you >I'm just telling you what his motivation was And I explained to you why that's plain dumb and insane, even you admit that it does >but even then, it was controversial to people who actually read it .

>>24982 >Not to mention, how the genius paired a character that was inspired by Robin Hood with a rich character. No interest in arguing about batman, but many, if not most, versions of Robin Hood were only hostile to specific Rich people. Robin Hood hated the specific government he was under because the king seized the throne illegitimately, and over taxed and stole from the poor. He stole from the rich and gave to the poor because the rich stole from the poor, not solely because they were rich.

>>24982 >Not to mention, how the genius paired a character that was inspired by Robin Hood with a rich character. No interest in arguing about batman, but many, if not most, versions of Robin Hood were only hostile to specific Rich people. Robin Hood hated the specific government he was under because the king seized the throne illegitimately, and over taxed and stole from the poor. He stole from the rich and gave to the poor because the rich stole from the poor, not solely because they were rich.

>>24992 >>24993 Shitty website made me double post, and it won't let me delete.

>>24992 >>24993 Also, you're leaving out the aspect that Robin Hood is rich, himself, with his vendetta against King George sprouting from the fact that the king illegally seizes his lands.

I finally watched it. Thank God I didn't pay money to see it in theaters. Fucking awful.

>>24197 What music is playing in the background?

>>25192 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bosouX_d8Y

There was zero reason to do this bullshit sudden garbage bag wingsuit. If the argument of realism is a factor then just suddenly suiting up at the pull of a cord or press of a button (it's not clear in the movie) is pretty unrealistic. There's nothing wrong with Batman gliding with his cape made of some bullshit scifi cloth tech. Even that pretentious faggot, Nolan, used all sorts of scifi excuses for his "realistic" Batman. Better yet just let him use his grappling hook to swing rooftop to rooftop.

The bat costume isn't ridiculous, it's theatrical. To say it's more "ridiculous" than superman's or any other superhero costume is purely a matter of subjective taste. That is all.

>>23636 >what else can you expect from Jewllywood the comic industry itself is jewish

>>25368 Ironically the biggest enemy of the jews is the jews.

>>25284 >If the argument of realism is a factor then just suddenly suiting up at the pull of a cord or press of a button (it's not clear in the movie) is pretty unrealistic I suspect the reason for the wingsuit had less to do with "realism" and more to do with aesthetically differentiating this Batman from other depictions. Regardless it just looks goofy compared to the imagery we're used to.

>>25380 Oh it's visually distinct alright. But a bat shouldn't look like a squirrel.

The movie was okay but the part where it transitioned to Batman leading a death metal concert was pretty rad. I especially liked how DC implemented the multi-verse by having Animated Universe Zatanna and Sue Storm join Batman's harem in bed at the end. Batmetal 4 when

>>25380 The director did say he wanted the film gadgets to have a "homemade" realistic feel. Outside of the contact lens, they pretty much did.

>>25520 He has an instant wingsuit & grapple guns on both bracers.

>>25526 And that's the problem with making things "realistic". Plus it didn't help he failed to really emphasis the current operation was still in its infancy. Yeah it was year 2 but people were already fearing him and there's this massive gap between his equipment.

>>25527 Yeah it's very jumbled & one of the reasons I really hate ultra realism in superheroes. Especially a character like Batman who's supposed to be a high tech super ninja with unlimited resources to make endless gadgets. They don't even tell use what the hell his batsuit is made of that makes it bulletproof & somehow able to survive a point blank explosion that should've fucked up his face at least. The cowl itself just seems to be made of leather without a shell in it.

>>25529 Nolan probably did it best, though them just accepting it and give Batman his iconic gear like what Tim Burton did would also work.

>>25531 See Nolan had the same problem of trying to go for hyper realism but failing at committing to it. Especially when his Batman can't even fight so it's just flailing about with constant cuts. While Burton's Batman is in the right direction but using really shit materials for the costume. Is it so hard to just Spider-man it or look back at Adam West? A shell to keep a defined shape with the fabric cowl around it. It's simple.

>>25532 I think it's better if you can see Spiderman's jaw moving under the mask personally.

>>25566 You want just purely CGI Spider-man then.

>>25569 Its not hard getting some jaw motions without cgi. You just need good fabrics.

>>25571 Yeah but that looks like shit compared to a face shell mask.

>>25572 You can do a hybrid shell that allows the jaw to move. They have the money to create such a mask.

>>25571 Is the holey plasitc the only way to have white eye lenses?

>>25588 There's bridal mesh fabric or reflective glasses lenses. Problem is they don't come in white so you'd have to settle for silver.

>>25529 But batman is the only one that really need to have grounded realism, fuck I would prefer for him to drop the JL and only focus on petty crimes or at most city level enemy. He is the only one that has to be realistic to a T and then step over for that extra superhero feel.... if you think about it, I don't remember any time where he wasn't realistic apart of BATB and Adam west one, the rest of the times he was always ground and somehow believable, fuck this is silver age and 90 era bat belt and is honestly nothing put of the real of a ninja detective

>>25771 It's better to be grounded by the rules of the setting than our real life rules, reality is fucking gay.

I have mixed feelings about it. On a technical level it was downright amazing, it reminded me a lot of Blade Runner. Makeup, camerawork, lighting, sound mixing and editing were pretty spectacular, in that regard it's probably the best Batman film I've ever seen. Where the movie fell apart were a lot of creative decisions and a lot of the dialogue. Zodiac killer Riddler was fine, but I didn't like emo Bruce Wayne, I didn't like how useless Gordon was, I didn't like underdeveloped Alfred (also, there's no way he'd survive that bomb), when Catwoman literally said "white privilege" I almost cringed my spine out, and the woke overtones really hurt my enjoyment in general. I also wasn't impressed by the joker, seems like bad mix of Heath Ledger and Cameron Monaghan. I reserve judgment on that, however, until I see more of him. I will say that having him in a Hannibal Lecter-like role isn't the worst idea. It's weird. Overall, I think it was worth seeing for the craftsmanship alone. At the same time I don’t think I'd have missed anything had I skipped it.

>>25771 You can have realism without sacrificing comic book exaggeration or cool aesthetics though. Problem is this movie wants to be grounded but not enough. It's the same problem the Nolan movies had. If you want Batman to have bulletproof body armor & be able to survive at least the heat of an explosion unscathed that's fine. Five him a kevlar & nomex bodysuit with a cape he can shield himself with. I'm willing to accept scifi tech on a modern setting Batman.

>>25774 That's why I say he needs to be realistic and have that extra push for capeshit. Let me show what I mean >shark repellent >heart beat sonar behind walls Or >anti laser shield >heat resistant Kevlar All dont exist, but one is more real and believable then tbe other

As expected, there is going to be a sequel, I bet it will end up being a trilogy. https://archive.is/wpub4 All the major adult collector toy companies (except Medicom that makes the Mafex line, which known for its delays) jump on the bandwagon making Da Batman action figure, however I haven't seen anyone doing *terrorist NuRiddler and Catwoman besides McFarlane Where's my Alfred, Todd? REEEEEEEE . I wonder if the playline was really successful and how much of it was a result of parents and grandparents, I mean I doubt kids would want boring regular penguin considering that white mobsters/gangsters belong to 20th century, not to mention how the absolute idiots at Spin Master only made maskless Catwoman figures without even the option to put mask on (which would've been cool). Perhaps Catwoman and Penguin shelfwarmed? *Not even in the playline >>25284 >There was zero reason to do this bullshit sudden garbage bag wingsuit I still can't believe they made Hot Toys for it, I burst in laughter when I first saw it and I still do! I hope there would be knockoff of it or something...maybe I could just use an existing garbage bag on my hobo Bruce and call it a day. >>25771 >fuck I would prefer for him to drop the JL Then he would finally stop making other and way better characters to job? >only focus on petty crimes or at most city level enemy Agreed >the rest of the times he was always ground and somehow believable Are you fucking kidding me?! >there is an encyclopedic page on Batman' belt Urgh >>25527 >>25529 >>25776 >Problem is this movie wants to be grounded but not enough You'd think that they would first and foremost bother to finally give Bruce personality and depth, aka make him round character, but they never do.

>>25781 I'd prefer is Bruce wasn't emo in public at least. Then again he only really shows up once in public at a funeral so it's not like had an opportunity to play up the rich boy persona.

>>25781 >As expected, there is going to be a sequel, I bet it will end up being a trilogy. Bets on how long it'll take until the fucking Joker shows up?

>>25785 He's already in a deleted scene & in the movie's ending talking to Riddler.

>>25786 Is it too much to ask for a decent live action Freeze or will hollywood inevitably fuck it up because good luck finding writers who can depict his love for Nora and how far he'll go for her while still portraying him in a somewhat tragic light?

>>25787 Depends how much harder Matt Reeves wants to go for the "realistic" re-imagining angle. Riddler was turned into a Zodiac Killer "dark web" chan incel who did none of the physical dirty work himself. While Joker is now a deformed guy with patches of green hair aping off of Heath Ledger's stupid smacking take. Robert Pattinson is more than willing to do campy villains in the sequel. I don't know if they could do a good Freeze.

>>25788 >>25787 I think the reason they stay away from Freeze is because 1. Batman & Robin is still in public memory, so people will still think about Arnie making ice puns and having his goons sing Snow Miser. 2. Heart of Ice is the most remembered episode of B:tAS, hell, it even won an Emmy, but for that reason people constantly feel the need to redo it, leading to Freeze getting the reputation of being a one trick pony storywise with "Muh wife" being the only thing people remember about him. So they try to shake it up, be it darker and grittier Batman series making him into some incel stalker with Nora not even knowing who he is, to that one time they brought Nora back with a Lazarus pit and she actually resented being kept alive (and then also turned into a villain with fire powers, because irony.)

>>25789 Yeah the internet pop culture bias is too prevalent in the mind of casual normalfags.

>>25789 >>25790 Tell that to Gotham.

>>25831 You act like Gotham is good. When it's not. None of the villains should even be active.

>>25839 Because they'd all be in their forties by the time Batman even appeared. Besides, the only thing I remember about Gotham is Tumblrettes latching on to twink Penguin for a hot minute before going back to schlicking themselves to Dr. Who and Supernatural.

>>25841 Most of Batman's villains are 30 to 40 though. Joker isn't a young guy. Freeze is only preserved by his cryo condition. Point is you shouldn't have a batman show without Batman. Arrow did the same thing instead of making an actual Green Arrow show.

>>25781 >Are you fucking kidding me? No anon, it's true, batman was campy and over the top only in the Adam west or brave and the bold. The rest of the times he always was quasi realistic, even in the early 1940 stories

>>25842 What they could do is have this five season series on Batman's early years, focused on the GCPD >Season 1 is where shit's utterly hopeless for the GCPD, focused on building up the crime families and gangleaders/super villains >Season 2 is when Gordon joins the force(or gets promoted or what have you), things are still shit in the GCPD and he's getting stonewalled at every turn but ultimately he's slowly making a change for the better. Ends at teasting Batman. >Season 3 is where Gordon's finally able to do enough work to dismantle one of the bigger crime families, both due to his work and unwittingly due to Batman's work in the background. Season ends with Gordon and the GCPD getting rid of that crime family and a good chunk of corruption in the GCPD, but learning of Batman's existence. >Season 4 is the GCPD is at it's lowest where while it's no longer as corrupt, the honest cops are utterly demoralized by the fact that one vigilante is doing the heavy lifting and how Gotham's lost hope in the GCPD. Gordon's trying to arrest Batman to show that vigilantes are shit, while Batman's still convinced the GCPD's still completely corrupt and cannot be trusted. Meanwhile a crime element(Not the fucking joker) is gathering strength in the background >Season 5 is where said crime element steps out of the shadows and is too much for early years Batman or the still newly reformed and demoralized GCPD to handle individually. First half of the season is the individual attempts by either party to dismantle that criminal organization to not much effect, third quarter of the season is either Batman reaching out to Gordon or the other way around to start an alliance and the final quarter of the series is the GCPD and Batman is working together to dismantle the organization. Maybe the final shot of the series is the installation of the bat signal or something solidifying the alliance between Batman and GCPD Of course it's all a pipe dream that hinges on the idea that there would be a writer good enough to depict the above well, in which case you might as well say any show or movie can work fine with good enough writing, production, acting, etc.

>>25848 There is almost 20 years between Detective 27 and Adam West Batman. Batman was very goofy for a long time before that show. The whole 1950s, for example. However, during the run of the show, the comics switched to the "New Look" era with the yellow oval symbol, which also introduced a more serious era to the stories.

>>24239 All bats are potentially infected with rabbies and other unknown diseases. A bat is as scary as a rat because just a bite can ruin your life.

>>25783 >play up the rich boy persona DCSHG really nailed it, they even have reality show called "Make It Wayne" starring Bruce and Alfred, kek. I would watch it if they make it an actual show. As for live action movie, I'd like to imagine scene where Bruce socializing with fellow high class and then near the end when it's also shown that he is coming back to his lonely mansion, "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out" is being played in the background. >>25785 >>25786 >>25787 My bet next movie will Have Joker and Harley Quinn. I do wonder what other villains would be...I'd love to see Copperhead being mostly human again instead of the generic boring reptilian monster they turned him into, I don't really care for 3DPD movies, but that way it would impact other media like comics and cartoons. >>25788 >Depends how much harder Matt Reeves wants to go for the "realistic" re-imagining angle He doesn't have a lot of "realistic" villains to choose from, unless I'm wrong, in which case he will have to use character with superpower of more fantastic ones as Mr.Freeze. >>25789 >but for that reason people constantly feel the need to redo it They already did it in TNBA; after Freeze got his happy ending in the "Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero", they just had to turn him into miserable piece of shit like Bruce. >Freeze getting the reputation of being a one trick pony storywise with "Muh wife" being the only thing people remember about him How is it any different than Batman "Muh parents"? I don't see anything wrong with giving an ending to story (in fact I support it). Logically a character would cease to do certain thing when the motivation to it is no longer exists and been resolved. Just let Mr. Freeze have his happy ending, dammit! >making him into some incel stalker with Nora not even knowing who he is, to that one time they brought Nora back with a Lazarus pit and she actually resented being kept alive (and then also turned into a villain with fire powers, because irony.) Is that going to be in the upcoming "Caped Crusader" cartoon? I can't wait to witness the absolute trainwreck it's going to be (Matt Reeves is also involved in it). >>25848 >The rest of the times he always was quasi realistic, even in the early 1940 stories Anon we have already gone through this...Batman in the original comic was a psychopath and the world setting didn't make any sense. Besides the usual "muh parents" and "muh morals" which is what Batman' poorly written personality consisted of, he is often ridiculously plotarmored and wanked, hence there's nothing realistic about him. As you can see above John K put Batman in the fantastic characters, in contrast to say Spiderman who is a combination of fantastic and observed/realistic character; Spiderman, aka Peter Parker is a round character with struggles, aspirations and feelings that goes beyond his superhero persona and his crimefighting. When you think about Spiderman, you think about Peter whereas when you think about Batman you rarely, if even think about Bruce, because Bruce doesn't have actual character with depth, and therefore so does Batman lacks character. >>25842 >Point is you shouldn't have a batman show without Batman The real problem (besides the live action) is there wasn't another superhero to substitute him. Batman is a shitty character in a cool setting, without his rouge gallery Batman is nothing. In other words, Batman' villains could work with other superheros, but Batman couldn't. For example, I love how Catwoman and Poison Ivy were handled in DCSHG, they're finally given characters beyond being Batman' hoes.

>>25897 Maybe now they can have a scene where it's like Bruce refurbished his old family mansion & is using it to host a charity event for Gotham's rich to fix the city. Having to now play up a public figure persona but retreating into the dark privacy of his study when it becomes too much for him to keep up. Showing a continued progression of having to be more than just a vigilante. They've already set up Joker, Penguin, Hush, & Riddler returning. Though Hush would be pretty different considering he has no family fortune like the Wayne's. Though he's relatively low tech as a villain & could've made his money as a surgeon anyway. Sick to death of Joker & I don't like the new design they've given him so I can't say I'm looking forward to him. Penguin could work as maybe a background villain rising up in the underworld rather than a main villain. As far as standard "realistic" villains go there's Two Face being just a guy with a split personality & scarred face. Baby Doll isn't completely unbelievable but you'd have to have a specific kind of actress that could pull off looking like a little girl. Killer Croc you'd have to exaggerate since his skin condition is fantasy levels of transformation. He'd be more of a thug than a main villain. You can do villains like Scarecrow, Firefly, Killer Moth, & hell even Bane can be done grounded enough. It's all scifi tech & drugs but you can make it believable enough for an audience. The obsession with realism destroys imagination rather than enhancing it. Most if not all comic book characters are shitty characters. They're stuck in settings with consistency, permanence, or progression. It's just the same loop of fighting the same villains over & over without an end in sight. That's why most people prefer those good cartoon show & movie adaptations that condense it all down into a real universe. That's why The Animated Series is so beloved. Even Beyond is well received & does new things rather than just future versions of the same villains all the time.

>>25897 >Just let Mr. Freeze have his happy ending, dammit! Didn't that happen with B&R, where Batman agreed to help Freeze with saving his wife as well as get revenge on Ivy? >whereas when you think about Batman you rarely, if even think about Bruce, because Bruce doesn't have actual character with depth, and therefore so does Batman lacks character. That's actually more of a recent issue because of how you have these idiot writers at companies who are focussed more upon creating story about "Batman" than stories that are about Bruce Wayne disguised as Batman. In fact, it's part of the reason why you keep seeing them replace legacy characters with diversity hires because all they see is a costume, NOT the person under the costume. One show that made me realize this was the Iron Man anime where, despite what happens in the comics, the other TV shows, and the later films, Tony Stark is the ONLY character who ever dawns the Iron Man suit because he is Iron Man. He and the character are in seperable. This was also apparent in earlier adaptations of superhero shows like the live-action The Adventures of Superman from the 50's where most of the episode deals very little with Supes, himself, and he only changes his costume towards the end of the episode when he has no other choice. So, what you end up with is a series about Clark Kent who becomes the hero that is Superman. And, until we actually get writers who realize this, all we'll endlessly get is everyone dressing up as Batman, and no one understanding why people even like Batman.

>>25897 Every character is plot armored in their story anon, stop pretending that batman is more OP then any another. By your logic Peter has the same character problem with "muh uncle ben" and "I'm broke" or the worst of all "poor aunt may" so what you are saying is that YOU and John Kricfalusi think batman is specifically bad just cause of no money problem batman have some character, it struggles with any human connection even with his putative father and its clear especially in stories when he needs to be a father for any robinfuck it was one of the main point of brake between bruce and Dick, he has the aspiration to clean the city from evildoers or at least make a change in it. Stop pretending he is a 2d thin character just cause someone dressed as a bat fiddle your diddle years ago, it's not tbe best character but it is a character. Sucks to have comics from before ww2 around, same could be said for superman or wonder woman Fuck if we really want to be autistic about it this litterally who John k admitted that spiderman created the problem of infiltrating actual current year problems in comics such as aids in the hulk and racism in spiderman exactly cause it left the cliche plus you really are retarded too, the realism im talking about goes in the fact that batman uses gadgets that might exist in real life, against campy Adam west or BADB one. But your hatebatboner clearly brings tmyour autismo to 11

>>25897 I'm curious, how do you feel about the Copperhead in Arkham Origins? Also I'm sorry, what's DCSHG an acronym for?

DCAU Freeze's episode and ending in Batman Beyond was good, so I don't mind Freeze's appearances after Heart of Ice, even if they aren't as good.

>>25902 >what's DCSHG an acronym for? DC Super Hero Girls, I'm assuming.

>>25898 Don't forget that some of the goofy minor villains usually get the "gritty and realistic" treatment, like Calendar Man being re-imagined as a holiday themed serial killer instead of just a criminal with holiday motifs. Same thing could happen to a bunch of minor villains, like Clock King being re-imagined as a mad bomber with OCD so kind of like a grittier version of the DCAU Clock King

>>25917 >like Clock King being re-imagined as a mad bomber with OCD I was imagining them turning him into Saw, since all of his traps are extremely autistic and limiting of what the victims can do down to a time table.

>>25921 But the puppet thing is Scarface's shtick.

>>25922 I'm not talking about the puppet, I was referring to the traps that Saw creates and his autistic attention to detail "solving" the trap. I just used the puppet as a way to point out which Saw I was referring.

>>25923 Honestly that's what Riddler should've been like. Even the Telltale Batman games got that right. Current incel Riddler should've been Anarky. Even works with the fake Riddler thugs doing the heavy lifting by already having a mask.

>>25898 >Maybe now they can have a scene where it's like Bruce refurbished his old family mansion & is using it to host a charity event for Gotham's rich to fix the city. Having to now play up a public figure persona but retreating into the dark privacy of his study when it becomes too much for him to keep up >Showing a continued progression of having to be more than just a vigilante Yes, but the example you gave is still about him helping people, I'd like to see a focus on Bruce' personal aspirations or struggles. >Two Face Oh I completely forgot about him, I am not fan of his schtick and he doesn't have any special or interesting abilities, just a distorted look. Also, he appeared in the Nolan trilogy so I doubt that they will be inclined to use him again. >Baby Doll isn't completely unbelievable but you'd have to have a specific kind of actress that could pull off looking like a little girl No chance they will use her in live action film much like avoiding young Robin in live action. >Killer Croc you'd have to exaggerate since his skin condition is fantasy levels of transformation. He'd be more of a thug than a main villain That would be boring, he should've elongated jaw like a crocodile. >Scarecrow, Firefly, Killer Moth That's also optional. >Bane can be done grounded enough They already did it the Nolan trilogy so it's unlikely they will use him. >Most if not all comic book characters are shitty characters. They're stuck in settings with consistency, permanence, or progression. It's just the same loop of fighting the same villains over & over without an end in sight. That mostly true to big two duopoly, especially when they started to pander to nerds instead of targeting kids. Golden age comics had far greater creativity (thanks to the greater amount of companies and parasitically no censorship) when each issue/story had new villain so it's felt more like an adventure story and it's more exciting because you don't what will happen next. Also as John K mentioned, the attempt of making superheroes more realistic in 60's Marvel comic was innovative and made the stories a lot more compelling. I don't think it's fair to denounce the comic book genre, just because, like in every genre, the majority of it is full of crap. > That's why most people prefer those good cartoon show & movie adaptations that condense it all down into a real universe No, that' because they're casualfags and in the case of live action only, normalfags. >That's why The Animated Series is so beloved BTAS truly deserve its high acclaim, it was well animated and written. IMO Bruce was still somewhat bland (the drama never really involved him and there was little focus on him just as being Bruce), I think they tried to fix it in the "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm" but didn't really succeed. >Even Beyond is well received & does new things rather than just future versions of the same villains all the time Inque is the best femme fatale, extremely dangerous and deadly and as equally sexy, she and Curare are best girls. Stalker is also awesome. Shriek has cool powers and the episodes with him were always great, though his personality is kinda boring. Spellbinder doesn't lead to cool fights and his origin story is really lame, but when his abilities are used well it can lead to interesting stories. Blight is neat, but never reach his full potential. I honestly wish BB was dead and forgotten,everything past the original series which itself declined, dumb ROTJ and issue 14 comic is complete garbage I just read the new shitty BB comics, kill me . >>25899 >B&R What?! I have no idea what you're talking and what is this acronym stands for. >Batman agreed to help Freeze with saving his wife as well as get revenge on Ivy Sound cool, I'd like to see/read it. >That's actually more of a recent issue With Batman? I highly doubt it. >it's part of the reason why you keep seeing them replace legacy characters with diversity hires because all they see is a costume, NOT the person under the costume The main reason is lazy woke cashgrab. Also, they're incapable of creating new things which is a waste of money anyway since they will have to invest in branding ,etc when they're already have plethora of copyrighted characters...IP laws were a mistake. >And, until we actually get writers who realize this There are two base elements which either creates a good story and together creates an excellent story: 1. Interesting and logical sequence of events 2. Good human drama. Today's writers are complete hacks and fail at both. >no one understanding why people even like Batman. Because people either saw him in a movie or a cartoon as kids and thought he was cool? Most people don't share our deep obsession for fictional characters from children' media. The attempt to popularize nerd culture didn't success well, most people would still not bother to read comics and if they buy merch it would usually be just cheap stuff like a t-shirt and god forbid Funko Pop which they stumble upon, like they wouldn't go out of their way and seek it.

>>25900 >Every character is plot armored in their story anon, Nope, not on Batman level where he is supposedly a mere human being without special powers or even heavy armor, yet he can handle Darkseid who is a god! Batman should stay in godforsaken Gotham and leave the Justice League, all he does is making characters around him job. >batman is more OP then any another He is >By your logic Peter has the same character problem with "muh uncle ben" and "I'm broke" or the worst of all "poor aunt may" I'm currently reading the original Spiderman comic and this flanderzation is far from the truth. Unlike say in the animated where "uncle Ben died so I must become a capeshitter", Peter didn't became immediately a superhero afterwards and it wasn't even what motivated him to do so, in fact he still tried to make money from his Spiderman gig (especially after he and aunt May become poor due to uncle Ben' death) but turned he couldn't. Seeing he has nothing better to do, he came to a big event which happened to give him the opportunity to save a life and use his powers for good (heck I already wrote about it earlier in the thread). The "I'm broke" was resolved fairly quickly when Peter was hired to work as photographer in Daily Bugle and isn't mentioned often, and as for "poor aunt may" I only witnessed it twice out of the 12 issues I read so far. Spiderman is the opposite of Batman, he is a good character in a lame setting - New York is nowhere near as interesting as fictional Gotham, his villains are lame and have retarded origin stories. I'm not even particularly fond of his superpowers or costume, I'm just rooting for Peter because he is such a compelling and well written character and this is why I continue to read his comic, unlike the original Batman comic which is absolute dogshit. I think it's better to have a (good) character carrying the story rather than the story carrying the (bad) character. >batman have some character Kek, an insufferable asshole at best. >it struggles with any human connection even with his putative father and its clear especially in stories when he needs to be a father for any robinfuck it was one of the main point of brake between bruce and Dick And yet the Gary Stu never face the consequences for his actions. So he was a complete asshole and drove everyone off? Well, lucky for him crazy Waller decided to cuck some innocent man (who is married and both he and his wife shares nearly identical psychological profiles to those of Bruce's parents) and created a clone son for him which of course she did in the name of her admiration for Bruce' sense of Justice and she almost killed that innocent man and his wife, truly prove what an upstanding person Bruce is:^) >he has the aspiration to clean the city from evildoers or at least make a change in it That's just him being Batman again, that's not a personal. Come on, that's the aspiration that every superhero has, it doesn't define him as individual character. >he is a 2d thin character He is, batwanker in denial. >cause someone dressed as a bat Terry being well written (besides being a shit boyfriend) has nothing to do with Bruce being poorly written, in contrast, and the reason why Batman is a poor flat character. Here is the thing, it's not about Batman being Terry, but Terry being Batman and that's exactly what I also meant about Spiderman. It's not the costume, but the person behind it and again in the case of Batman the person behind it is a shallow boring character that mostly relies on its interesting world setting. >litterally who John k >the batwanker doesn't acknowledge John K being a great (former) animator >John k admitted that spiderman created the problem of infiltrating actual current year problems in comics such as aids in the hulk and racism in spiderman exactly cause it left the cliche It wasn't specifically Spiderman, but the whole 60's Marvel. He also mentioned that this approach gave a breath of fresh air to comics. You also need to take to consideration that starting from the 70's and forwards comic began to pander to nerds and stopped targeting kids. If you want to go back full Golden Age, Batman still sucks, even back then. >you really are retarded too I'm not the batwanker:^) > the realism im talking about goes in the fact that batman uses gadgets that might exist in real life, against campy Adam west or BADB one >autismo Not caring for human interactions and instead only caring for technical stuff, is the sigh of autism and also you clearly talked about his character rather than the setting which seems you keep confusing with, dumbass batwanker. >>25902 >I'm curious, how do you feel about the Copperhead in Arkham Origins? I hate it, it's vaginawashing and generic hoe outfit. Cooperhead should keep his snake-like costume with the snake' head and tail and have fangs and reptilian pupils. > Also I'm sorry, what's DCSHG an acronym for? What >>25913 said. >>25903 I sorta agree, I mean the BB episode was good and but it relied on a bad episode from TNBA. So it's a weird situation in which the BB episode make sense, but not the TNBA one which it is following.

>>25950 Are you that one ESL who kvetched in the Justice League unlimited thread?

>>25950 >I hate it, it's vaginawashing and generic hoe outfit. That hoe definitely does not wash its vagina.

>>25950 >he never face the consequences of his actions <it's left yet again alone reaching a level that even superman has to go tell him to chill from beating the thugs to hard You do realize that traumatized people would behave that way right? They will not get close to anyone and will push who's close away >all that Terry stuff Who are you quoting? Do you even read before posting? I never even went on talking about Terry. >that's just hum being batman <clearly does a fuckload of stuff as philanthropist and helper with his Bruce way persona >he is batwanker in denial He is not bathater >doesn't acknowledge John k as being a great animator he did some hanna and Barbara stuff little tom and jerry, and most famous for Ren and Stimpy. Again litterally who? >Not caring for human interactions and instead only caring for technical stuff, is the sigh of autism and also you clearly talked about his character rather than the setting which seems you keep confusing with Are you a single digit nigger? I've immediately started talking about his gadget and then since you moved the goal post to his character i had to point out the BS you were on about Oh i get it anon, so someone dressed as a bat really did fiddle your diddle when you were young. Otherwise it's unexplainable this hate bones you have against him.

>>25949 But anon, helping people is Bruce's personal aspiration.

>>25988 >on /co/ and pretends Ren & Stimpy and John K aren't great That guy you're arguing with is a retard, but this makes you even more retarded than him.

>>25998 >grotesque style lolsorandum humor >molester animator up his own ass >great C'mon now.

>>25998 Anon, it might have been ok at best, just like grim adventure of Billy and Mandy or cow and chicken for the lolrabdom humor... he did maybe a good job with jettsons, but now elevate his opinion as Bible state on any character is bullshit on the ^n level

>>26009 Is there any thread to talk about Dr Strange and how shitty the movie is?

>>26015 There's some discussion in the pain thread but your free to make a thread for it.

>>26009 Those other shows have fucking shit animation compared to Ren & Stimpy, and the later ones wouldnt exist without it in the first place.