>>8801 In which case I could point to the government charters of dozens of European countries where you have just as much "freedom" but also free healthcare and education and welfare and your boss can't make you suck his cock on the daily, and in return you pay marginally more in taxes. Oh no, you pay 25% tax instead of 20%. That extra $2K per year is REALLY going to help pay for your hospital bills when you get run over by an uninsured drunk driver.

>>8838 And the elites are trying to get rid of those too? Because that's what he was talking about. I shouldn't need to greentext it when it's so close to your post. >Please provide an example of the elites trying to take out other enumerated rights from the people I'm not even disagreeing with you. You're just missing his point, and it's annoying.

>>8840 To be fair, the "right to bear arms" is vague as all shit and says nothing about the size of the guns, ammo capacity, or IDs and registration. Many people have argued that the "well-regulated militia" implies some rules about the matter. The so-called elites AREN'T taking away any rights just by putting in some additional rules. So his argument is bullshit from the beginning. And none of those redneck fucks care if they take guns away from people with a criminal record, or any mental disorders, or all the niggers for that matter. They don't give a fuck about the law, only themselves and what ways they can twist the law around to apply to themselves. Same way Christians twist around the Bible to say God hates gays, to justify their hatred of fags, even as they ignore everything else in there.

>>8842 You can argue it's vague, but from a historical perspective, it's not hard to see the actual intent, and if you're interested in following the spirit of the law rather than the letter, then it's not a problem. Following the letter is a problem for any law since language changes, and leftists deliberately and openly try to change it. Your argument that they aren't taking away rights is arguing about the letter of the law rather than the spirit. This goes again for other things you mentioned, like non-citizens, prisoners, and those with mental disorders. Blacks weren't citizens at the time and not intended to be covered. While prisoners and those with mental disorders would be citizens, it's disingenuous to imply that the law was intended to mean that prisoners and those in mental asylums should be allowed to bear arms. You're also exaggerating when you say "none of those redneck fucks care..." especially in regards to niggers. Many do think niggers should be allowed to have guns. Maybe not many on this board, but many of the prominent 2A advocates do.

>>8842 You didn't back up anything you said. All you are doing is acting like a jew playing word games. What other documents are protecting the rights of US citizens and relevant compared to the Constitution?

>>8851 >from a historical perspective, it's not hard to see the actual intent Pretty sure the "intent" is to prevent hundreds of people from being murdered every year by nutsos with assault rifles. You can't rationally argue that they're trying to disarm the citizens to "take over the country" or whatever bullshit, because they literally already own the country. The citizens already have basically zero rights or protections. They're taxed to death, worked to death, left to die in the street, and the rich just step over them. There is nothing left to take away.

>>8856 >Pretty sure the "intent" is to prevent hundreds of people from being murdered every year by nutsos with assault rifles. You seriously think that is the intent of the 2nd Amendment? Oh wait, no, you just can't read. That explains a lot. >they literally already own the country. The citizens already have basically zero rights or protections. They're taxed to death, worked to death, left to die in the street, and the rich just step over them. There is nothing left to take away. I don't disagree with this at all. However, that's precisely when the 2nd Amendment is important. I would normally say it isn't that important because voting allows a different way to get rid of those in power, but they've dropped that facade, so nevermind, now I totally get the 2A people. The problem is that too many people are just too cowardly and ignorant to use it. But everyone has a breaking point. And the next argument would be that they couldn't win. That's debatable, but it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

>>8856 I see, so basically you were just retarded all along.

>>8870 No, that's the intent of gun control. The intent of the 2nd Amendment was to protect an infant country from being taken over by external powers that were wealthier and more technologically advanced. Something that is irrelevant and unnecessary today. >The problem is that too many people are just too cowardly and ignorant to use it That's what I meant when I said all of them were sitting on their ass on Jan 6. There were literal fascists storming the Capitol so they could install their retard candidate, who lost the democratic election, as their God Emperor for life. And what did all those people with guns do? Sit at home and CHEER THEM ON.

>>8876 >No, that's the intent of gun control. Oh, so not the thing that was being talked about. You should work on your reading comprehension. Once you do, you might realize why you're so wrong about so many things. >There were literal fascists storming the Capitol so they could install their retard candidate, who lost the democratic election, as their God Emperor for life. And what did all those people with guns do? Sit at home and CHEER THEM ON. It's literally the opposite. Literal fascists openly rigged an election and everyone knows it, but the most courage anyone had to do anything about it was to take a guided tour of a building and let the cops shoot one of them. Their mistake was not hanging every single motherfucker in there.

>>8887 >Their mistake was not hanging every single motherfucker in there Pray tell, what, exactly, would that have accomplished? Because I'm honestly curious what Mr. Keyboard warrior who's an expert on political theory of a country he doesn't even live in has to say about violent overthrowing of a government being the opposite of fascism.

>>8891 Violent overthrowing of a political party that has undemocratically stolen the government is literally stopping fascism. Again, voting is there so that people can change their government peacefully. The democrats have openly cheated and everyone knows it. So they took out the mechanism used to change the government peacefully, and therefore the only option left is to change the government violently. And since they took out the option to vote and do it peacefully, changing the government by any means necessary is itself a moral and legal duty. They have broken the must fundamental laws, and it is the duty of the people to protect themselves from these people who have literally stolen power.

>>8893 >undemocratically stolen the government Look you dumb fuck. The voters said Biden won. The state boards said Biden won. The state governors (of the states where the vote was in dispute) said Biden won. The machines said Biden won. The re-counters said Biden won. The oversight committees said Biden won. The state courts said Biden won. The Supreme Court said Biden won. The House and Senate said Biden won, and certified it. You know who said Trump won? Trump, himself, maybe 10 republican governors and congressmen, and a whole lot of fucking retards like you. I bet you also believe the 3 scientists out of 100 who say climate change is a fraud.

>>8937 There was a group of elites who influenced the election, and while they used legal means, whether the voting procedures they forced to be implemented represents voters is dubious. Yes, without these changes, the voting system in before still had questionable voter representation, but the changes made in the election certainly influenced a Democratic win. Time article reverse-expose: https://archive.ph/aWnvO This and the graph that shows the sudden jump for Biden is why people will keep on saying this whole thing is fucky.

>>8723 Because removing the constitution for you is removing the ideological constrains of civilisation that the elites are pretending that they have to uphold. While it might not be an effective, it gives you context to think about things in a certain manner. Breaking the constitution or ignoring it means that USA no longer officialy follows the ideals that it used to follow like for example freedom and liberty. This might not be a bad thing necessarily, but destroying the constitution is destroying a system of thought. One of better systems of thought in my personal opinion, but imperfect as any system of thought. If you strip a government of all it pretenses, it leaves nothing than the ugly truth of power worship. Even if the constitution is largely ineffective, it is one of few things holding the government from just openly going into tyranny. It might be not much better than a breaking down nuzzle on the mouth of a rabid dog, but it's better than nothing. The question really isn't "Why should we follow the constitution" but... "What else do you want to put in its stead?"

>>8937 lol what was this babby's first election? wew

>>8984 Given that the GOP has gerrymandered the ever-loving fuck out of every district, packed the Supreme Court as it suited them, and oppressed minority votes in every legal fashion they can think of, it's high-time the Democrats did some dubiously-legal manipulation of their own. But that's not really what happened at all. What DID happen was that a whole lot of Americans were promises a whole lot of things by Trump, who proceeded to do literally nothing other than golf and twitter for four years, cozying up the dictators and demolishing diplomatic relationships with ally countries, and in general was a complete asshole. He promised a wall that never happened, to drain a swamp that he filled even deeper, to lock up people that went free (whether you think they did anything or not), to bring back jobs that never did, and to take care of America over all else. Then, when a real crisis hit, what did he do? Dismissed the fucking experts, sent our masks to China, and advised everyone else to inject bleach and stick UV lights up their assholes. If you think about it just a little bit, you can see that it's not such a huge stretch that the majority of Americans wanted to get rid of him. For what little history of this country remains, he will go down in it as objectively the worst ever President. >>8986 The constitution, like the Bible, is often so vague that it can be twisted by the elites into anything they want. Asides from that, while it may promises "freedom of speech" and right to bear arms and such, it doesn't promise ANY actual human rights. Things like water, food, shelter, clean air, the public commons, health and education, labor rights, and JUST MAYBE not being terrorized by a police state with zero recompense. >What else do you want to put in its stead? There are plenty of European countries that rank higher than the USA in literally every metric. We can start there.

>>8937 >The voters said Biden won. They didn't. And they're the only people who matter. This is why (((certain people))) changed the rules in the year leading up to the election, and then repeatedly broke the rules both before and after. Court tells them to stop doing something, or to keep records? Whoops. Did it anyway, threw away the records. Guess we gotta just run with the count they gave even though they were court ordered not to. You respect the courts, right? You cited them. Even though the Supreme Court didn't say Biden won, it just said it refused to look at the case, which is not the same thing. It didn't rule. But just another case of your side lying, because it's the only way you can try to get away with the things you do. Truth isn't on your side. That's why they had to repeatedly prevent the people who were supposed to be watching the count from doing their jobs. That's why they had to wheel in suitcases full of ballots and only count them after they told everyone that the count was over and they should go home. You know this. You know where you are. You know everyone here knows this. There is no way you got here organically and sincerely believe the things you are saying. You are obviously a shill, and either know you are lying, or newly assigned and don't know yet. But you will. >>8990 >Given that the GOP has gerrymandered the ever-loving fuck out of every distric >whataboutism So you agree the election was stolen, but it's okay because it's the side you like. Both sides attempt gerrymandering. I don't blame either side for doing it. The system is at fault and must be fixed. Don't hate the player, hate the game. However, I do blame those that try to stop measures against gerrymandering, which is again, both sides. But only one side was cheating in the election, so they're the worse of two evils. >packed the Supreme Court as it suited them The dems, under Obama, are the ones that changed the rules to make it easier to pack the supreme court. And even before this election, they've been promising to add more justicies just so they could pack it harder, just like FDR. He was GOP, right? >and oppressed minority votes in every legal fashion they can think of The only reason you think this is because you're a racist piece of shit that thinks black people can't get IDs. Or you're still butthurt about southern dixiecrats from 60 years ago, and again forgetting what party they were in. >proceeded to do literally nothing other than golf and twitter for four years Funny, because according to the media he killed a baby every single day. He also built a significant portion of that wall, made an economy so good that Obama said it would be impossible, beat ISIS, got a peace deal with the Taliban (which Biden is now trying to ruin), moved toward better diplomacy with North Korea, and all manner of other things. Of course, I expect you to try to credit Obama with most good things, but then by the same logic you'd have to credit Trump with most good things that happen under Biden, and we know that won't happen. Well, probably very few good things will happen under Biden anyway since all he's doing is enacting openly fascist and racist policies, but those are what the left likes now, so nevermind, it's good when the government treats people differently based on race, or when they rig elections, as long as it's the team you have aligned yourself with. >to drain a swamp that he filled even deeper, He did drain a lot of them, so they all ran to the dems, and thanks to your supporting their cheating, they got back in. Congrats. >to lock up people that went free (whether you think they did anything or not) The FBI has been caught openly being politically biased and trying to extralegally and illegally destroy him and people he was working with. It was outright treason. >to bring back jobs that never did, But many of them did. We'll just ignore that though because it's not convenient for you. >Dismissed the fucking experts, sent our masks to China, and advised everyone else to inject bleach and stick UV lights up their assholes. You think people here of all places don't know the truth about this? You're not fooling anyone with these big lies. You're not dealing with the people who just eat whatever lies CNN tells them. What did happen is that the dems called him and anyone else who was trying to take measures against the Wuhan Virus racist, while telling people to go to chinatown and celebrate chinese new years, and openly peddling Chinese Communist Party propaganda. You're not fooling anybody, and frankly, it's pathetic that you think you are doing even a passable job. >If you think about it just a little bit, you can see that it's not such a huge stretch that the majority of Americans wanted to get rid of him. If you think more than a little bit, you'll recognize that all the shit you just said was full of lies. But lies are how you live your life. You clearly do not actually believe the things you're saying. And the number of people who do believe those things is not only minuscule, but dwindling further every day. You're bad at your job. >he will go down in it as objectively the worst ever President. It's funny how you people think we don't remember George W Bush. But of course, he won't be the worst ever either, since we have your cheated candidate in now. Also, with your cheating, all you've actually accomplished was redpilling a bunch of people and making them realize that Bush didn't cheat after all, but just stop Gore from cheating in a manner similar to Biden. So Bush wasn't even as bad as everyone thought. Still the worst in recent decades though, well until this year. Also, you don't know shit about pre-20th century history anyway, so don't pretend you can even make an "objective" opinion on a matter you know nothing about. >actual human rights. Things like water, food, shelter, clean air, the public commons, health and education, labor rights, and JUST MAYBE not being terrorized by a police state with zero recompense. Actually, it does have that last one. The rest aren't rights. You have the right to do what you want as long as you don't impose upon others. That's why you're allowed to speak. You can't hurt others with speech. You're allowed to bear arms because that doesn't hurt anybody. You're not allowed to use them in a way that hurts people except in justified circumstances, since sometimes those circumstances arise and it's necessary to use your arms. You have the right to use the food, water, shelter, air, space, and education you can get. You do not have the right to force people to give you those things, AKA steal those things from people, or steal their labor by forcing them to get them for you. Health isn't a right and nobody can guarantee it. Sometimes people are born with health problems. Should they sue the government for not making sure they were born as a healthy superman? Now, I know what you're trying to argue for is universal health care, which I actually agree with, but that's not the same as a right.

>>9010 Access to free water and clean air should be rights. Those two things influence everyone equally and are more of a public property thing than anything else. Maybe rights are the wrong word even, but they should be necessary for a functioning society of any kind. Besides that I agree with you on basically everything. I hate how people in politics are always trying to force their own fucking vision of an utopia onto others instead of just focusing on trying to make things better one step at a time. It is physically or logistically impossible to provide everyone with many of the things that utopists are demanding. And although its sad that we don't have all those things, that is the natural state of the world. I'm not saying it is good, but that it isn't easy to actually rectify, and if you want to improve it, you should shoot for better and not perfect. Biden's goverment is fascistic and racist as fuck, ironically Trump did far more for the minority groups of USA than Biden will ever do.

>>9011 >Access to free water and clean air should be rights. Those two things influence everyone equally and are more of a public property thing than anything else. While I think you can make an argument for "clean" things, as in arguing that pollution should be regulated, arguing that you should get anything for free necessarily means that you are arguing that things should be taken by force from either people. Either their direct resources, or their money, or their time, or their labor. Of course, resources and money are just abstractions of time and labor. You do not have the "right" to steal from people or force them to do things. It would be nice for everyone to have free water, since obviously everybody needs water. Where are you going to get it? That's the problem. I would agree it's good to encourage people to be charitable and try to help the poor, but forcing people to do things creates major problems.

>>9010 >They didn't Yes, they did. Just because you choose to disbelieve the results, doesn't change what the results said. Additionally, as I demonstrated, you're also doing this with immense evidence to the contrary. At this point, it's utterly stupid of you. Trump was a conman, and he conned you. Admit you made a mistake and move on. Everyone else has. >built a significant portion of that wall Wrong. >made an economy so good Economy is in the shitter because of his mishandling of COVID. >beat ISIS ISIS still exists. >got a peace deal with the Taliban Yet he left the soldiers in Afghanistan. >moved toward better diplomacy with North Korea Cowing to Kim Jong Un is not diplomacy. >all manner of other things So far you've named nothing that actually happened, so go ahead and pull more out of your ass while you're at it. Still wondering why the fuck a retard from Canada is sucking the cock of a former American President so hard. What did he do for you, anyway? You're not even involved but you think the dude is the greatest fucking thing since sliced bread. You sound like you're in a cult, dude. Calm the fuck down. It's pathetic. I don't like Biden or Obama and never did, so you can't even claim we're the same. You are THE ONLY PERSON HERE that has his head three feet up the asshole of a fucking politician, and it's DISGUSTING and PATHETIC.

>>9031 As I said, I mostly agree. I'm just arguing for ecological regulations, not as in forcing someone to do something, but barring people from doing things that harm our environment and water supplies. I'm not for government intervening in economics, but I'm for setting some basic health standards. Hurting the ecology and water supply is damaging personal freedoms of other people, and should be thought off of as an act of agression I'm for small government besides that. As I said, rights might not be a good name, perhaps "standards" is a better word.

>>9032 >Yes, they did. Just because you choose to disbelieve the results, doesn't change what the results said. One does not choose to believe. Either you are convinced or you are not. You can pretend to believe something you do not, but if you have not been convinced, then you do not believe. Unfortunately for you, there was tons of evidence of cheating, so very few actually believe your lies. Fortunately for you in the short term, due to your small but violent team having power, many are afraid enough to not speak up in public. Unfortunately for you, this can't last forever, it simply increases the pressure on regular people over time, and once enough pressure builds, it will not go well for you. >Additionally, as I demonstrated, you're also doing this with immense evidence to the contrary. At this point, it's utterly stupid of you. You demonstrated nothing except trying to make arguments from authority. Meanwhile, you choose to ignore massive piles of evidence that everyone else knows about. I understand your goal is to simply suppress it until enough people forget, but you and your team keep overplaying your hand, and only making people madder and madder. You lack the subtlety to achieve your goal. >built a significant portion of that wall >Wrong. So wrong that Biden is continuing the wall, "but only to fill in gaps." Hard to do that if there isn't already a significant portion. >Economy is in the shitter because of his mishandling of COVID. Ecomony of the whole world is in the shitter because major public figures from across the world, including the Democratic Party in the United States, participated in the Chinese Communist Party's coverup of the outbreak for months, until it was too late. Governors such as Cuomo murdering tens of thousands by forcing nursing homes to take infected is also the president's fault even though they strongly opposed each other, apparently. >ISIS still exists. And they're just as powerful as before? Oh, no, but they probably will be soon once Biden's handlers have a chance to fuck it up, since they're the ones that created ISIS in the first place. >Yet he left the soldiers in Afghanistan. Until the date of the deal. Then Biden declared that they would stay after that date, as if he wants to ruin the deal and keep the war going, because that's what you murderous monsters do. >Cowing to Kim Jong Un is not diplomacy. >Cowing >while conceding nothing Funny now the left used to identify as the anti-war side, but now you're nothing but warmongers. I wonder if you supported Bush Jr's wars when we was in office, or if you are truly just 100% a tribalist. >Still wondering why the fuck a retard from Canada is sucking the cock of a former American President so hard. Reality is reality. I'm not going to sit here and let you tell ridiculous lies about any major historic events, especially ones that just happened. Your Orwellian big lies will not work. We have not always been at war with Eurasia. >I don't like Biden or Obama and never did, Yet in your replies you show support for things that continue their warmongering policies. >>9037 This is reasonable. Barring people from doing things that harm others is necessary, and one can certainly argue that polluting harms others. However, it's still tricky because a person can never eliminate their own pollution entirely, even on a personal level. So you still need somewhat subjective limits. However, this is different from declaring that things should be "free," because that usually means having to take it from someone. I suppose the exception would be things that were unclaimed and then the government snatched up before anyone else, and declared that citizens had free access. But then where does the government get its operating funds? It's never been fully from charity.

>>9039 Some taxes although I hate their idea are necessary. I'm a minarchist, I want a night watchman state, it's simply that I believe some safety and ecological regulations need to be taken as part of the state. Obviously some subjective regulations would be in place, but I think it's better than someone dumping chemicals into the water supply. There is no way to fully decrease pollution, but a betterment of the situation is possible. Looking for perfection is a failure when you want to make the world a better place, I just want simple betterment of the situation. Free-er market, more personal freedoms and ecological regulations. Sometimes its not about fixing everything at once but slowing down the descent, letting the future push it towards a better future. This is sadly the most an individual can hope to accomplish.

>>9039 The thing about all of Trump's accomplishments is they're all invisible. You were TOLD they happened, but you can never confirm or deny that they were. You were told he built a wall somewhere far away. He beat a group of terrorists and made some kind of deal with another, on the other side of the world. He made "peace" with a dictator that never did anything but bluster. He made attempts to put some people in jail that were blocked somehow. He bravely fought for peace and justice and democracy behind closed doors while being attacked from all sides by the forces of evil. Why do you choose to believe all these things? What, in your life that you can objectively observe, actually changed between 2016 and now...? Because I bet it's close to nothing at all aside from the shit that appears in your Twitter feed. I have no idea how the economy is going on up there, but here in the USA the only thing that's happened to the 300 million or so Americans that AREN'T politicians or billionaires or corporate interests is the same as has been happening for 50 years: taxes are going up for them while they go down for the rich, cost of living continues to spiral out of control, and they still have none of the social welfare programs that other first-world countries, INCLUDING YOURS, enjoy as a matter of course for being citizens. In this way, Trump actually did very little except accelerate this. His invisible accomplishments did literally nothing to stop the fact that people are out of work, can't afford rent, will never get healthcare. Yeah, the stock market looks great; but 95% of Americans own no stocks, while all of them must eat, yet many staple foods have increased in price to 150% compared to 5 years ago. You go on and on like an simpering ass-kissing fanboy about how great Trump was, and yet what did he do for the citizens? Nothing. Either he was incompetent, or he was so weak and pathetic that he couldn't stop a bunch of liberals or Jews or whatever from preventing him from doing things. Either way, he's a total failure in every possible way for the grand majority of people. So I ask again, why are you sucking his dick so hard? Everyone else here saw the truth: he was just another rich old man who suckered people out of their money and did nothing for the people like you and me. They've dropped him like a sack of burning shit, and you're still there holding it and breathing in those shit fumes and telling me it's the smell of roses.

>>8937 >Look you dumb fuck. The voters said Biden won. The state boards said Biden etc. You are pretty stupid for an anon. Like a absolutely (Hello, I just arrived from Cuckchan, please bully me) kinda stupid. It was clearly stolen. I worked in an elections admin office and knew the morning after it was stolen because of my training to catch rigging. It was so blatant even (Hello, I just arrived from Cuckchan, please bully me)s knew it was stolen which is saying something. And yet here you are with actual intelligent anons acting like a retardicon acting like the election videos were not seen by all of us. Not everyone is as gullible and naive as you.

>>8893 >>8887 Holy shit leaf, you are based as fuck. I also agree, the fuck they are doing just going home after capturing the capital? You got the capital then secure it and grab all the rats and hang em. This is like revolution 101.

>>9053 Because they weren't trying to start a revolution unfortunately.

>>9052 If Trump had stayed President for another 4 years, tell me, how would things have gotten better for anyone other than his buddies? Who was it that enacted trillion-dollar tax cuts for the super rich, while increasing taxes on the middle class? Who was it that failed to prevent the swamp getting deeper and deeper and corruption expanding even more? Who was it that crashed the economy while other countries who also dealt with COVID bailed out their own citizens with monthly checks so they could stay home? You seem to think that something was stolen from you, personally, while being totally ignorant of all that had already been stolen by the ruling class. And you think Trump would have changed that after 4 years of not changing it? What a joke.

>>9062 I am saying you are retarded for thinking this election was legit. Everyone with any critical thinking skills knows it was rigged. You however think everyone here is as dumb and naive as you and your friends are. When regular people know shit was obviously stolen, you got major problems. You can't come to the chans like we are plebs like you deal with in every day life. We pay attention to shit regular people don't.

>>9078 >>9062 How smart can you all be when you're all still statists. The only difference between you and real life plebs is that you don't get high as often.

>>9079 I am not a statist. I personally find government to be the worst way to do something.

>>9079 Don't put everyone here in one net anon. Fuck the state, and I wish /liberty/ was more active.

>>9078 >economic instability >supply chain disruptions >inventory shortages Not happening. They stole their rigged election from jew party A and gave it to jew party B. The chinkflu has already served its purpose and will be allowed to lapse now. There won’t be anything else happening.

>>8937 Retards like you can even find 8moe? LOL

>>9041 >Trump's accomplishments... are all invisible >a wall Your post begins with the premise that walls are invisible. You're an idiot, and nobody needs to waste their time reading the rest of your post. You call other people conspiracy theorists, but then think a giant wall that everyone can see, including its opponents, doesn't exist. You're insane. Or more likely, you're a literal shill, since there is no way anyone could make it through the spiral of more and more obscure websites until they end up here, while still believing the absurdities that you claim to believe. You are too ridiculous to come across as anything but disingenuous, and trying to start a reply by arguing that the wall doesn't exist is not going to help your case.