I want to see actual Sonic zones as biomes in a contiguous world with Sonic aesthetics and level design. I want actual level design. Frontiers level design is ike BotW, but it should be more like DK64. That game had hand-crafted puzzles for multiple playable characters, had missions that spanned the whole stage, it had "dungeons", and the stage opened up naturally as you played through it.

The big problem with Frontiers 2 is that Sonic Frontiers sold really well for a Sonic game, especially in japan. It sold better than Shadow Gens in fact. This shows that despite its flaws Frontiers still was an appealing game to normalfags and japs, even moreso than Shadow Gens. It shows that pure Sonic games like Shadow Gens are not popular with normalfags and japs unlike this new open world BOTW ripoff. Because of this, Sonic Team can't just make open world game that's 100% Sonic like Sonic Utopia for example. They still have to follow Sonic Frontiers' design somewhat if they don't want to alienate this new audience.

Shadow Generations already took concepts from Frontiers and refined them. I'd say it's a much better game, despite not even being sold as a full game. Hopefully the next real 3D Sonic game follows the trends from Shadow Generations. By that I mean make it more and more like Sonic Adventure 2, but with open world stuff, since people seem to like that. And obviously make the open world one large world, like Shadow Generations, but much bigger. Obviously they intended that with Frontiers and just fucked up. >>26124 >I want to see actual Sonic zones as biomes in a contiguous world with Sonic aesthetics and level design. Oh yeah this. Frontiers looked super boring. How hard would it be to just set it on Angel Island or whatever, and let us run around those locations? I guess technically you get to run around a tiny section of Angel Island open world in Sonic Adventure. You can have that little section be the same in a new game, as a reference, but then expand upon it tremendously. And don't start about how layouts shouldn't be exactly the same, because that would be boring, and therefore it should be a different location in the story. Hyrule is different every time, but we can still accept that it's always Hyrule. >>26125 >The big problem with Frontiers 2 is that Sonic Frontiers sold really well for a Sonic game, especially in japan. It sold better than Shadow Gens in fact. Shadow Generations wasn't even sold like a full game. It hardly counts. But clearly they were testing some ideas. It's not even like it was that different from Frontiers. To casuals, it's clearly the same formula. The little differences only matter to nerds. But that includes me. They matter to me.

>>26126 >It's not even like it was that different from Frontiers They only share the same character controller and level design ideas. Everything else is all different. Even normalfags and japs can tell which is why Shadow Gens sold worse than Frontiers. >Shadow Generations wasn't even sold like a full game It's as full as a pure boost game is going to get. Its smaller price and Sonic Movie 3 hype should have made it more successful than Frontiers but that wasn't the case. I think that was due to Shadow Gens being too Sonic-like. (I know this sounds retarded but that's probably how normalfags and japs view Shadow Gens)

>>26123 (OP) >>What do we want to see in Sonic Frontiers 2? Really, the game already has a good base, they really only need to further improve in it, a real physics system for example, i get why the game was like that but we really need to play more with the physics after getting a taste of it with the spindash. >>How should the sequel improve upon the original game? Physics to begin with, also we really could use original themes for stages that arent fucking green hill yet again. >What shouldn’t be in the sequel? Recycled stages, the original levels they had were pretty good, they really just need to stop relying so much on past stuff and make something new. >What could be its vision and design philosophy? Maybe a focus on rhythm? there's a certain sense of zen in the open zones where you can just chain multiple mini challenges together, maybe if they stopped pausing everytime you finish an objective you could chain multiple together, since i do think all the cutscenes break the pace somewhat.

>>26129 > a real physics system for example, i get why the game was like that but we really need to play more with the physics after getting a taste of it with the spindash. Frontiers already supports 360 degree movement and light slope physics. Their problem was with making Sonic's movement work with realistic and rocky terrain. That's the reason why the controls feel so janky and even I don't know how they could fix that.

>>26133 wow

>>26128 >They only share the same character controller and level design ideas. So the main core of the game. This is like saying Sonic 2 isn't like Sonic 1. Like yeah, as a massive autist, I can tell the difference, but it's obviously an incremental change on the same formula. >Even normalfags and japs can tell which is why Shadow Gens sold worse than Frontiers. Shadow Generations was sold like a bit of side content to a near-identical remake of Sonic Generations. It wasn't a "real" game as far as normalfags and casuals are concerned. It's the equivalent of Zelda Four Swords. >It's as full as a pure boost game is going to get. I agree it is, but I said it wasn't sold as such. It was sold as a bit of additional content on a rerelease of a game from 13 years earlier.

>>26158 >So the main core of the game I disagree. Frontiers has multiple features (combat, focus on the open world, puzzles) that are not present in Shadow Gens as that game is just a boost game with a small hub world. They are nothing alike imo. >Shadow Generations was sold like a bit of side content to a near-identical remake of Sonic Generations Really? I thought it was the main focus of Sonic X Shadow Generations. I remember that it got the most screentime in trailers and gameplay footage.

>>26133 >even I don't know how they could fix that. just don't do realistic terrain and stick to cartoony textures.

>>26123 (OP) >What do we want to see in Sonic Frontiers 2? Level design like from Update 3 >How should the sequel improve upon the original game? They should make the combat less shitty. >What shouldn’t be in the sequel? Generic realistic art style. >What could be its vision and design philosophy? I think Frontiers 2 will be the middle-ground between what Sonic fans want and what japanese players liked and disliked about Frontiers.

>>26123 (OP) >What do we want to see in Sonic Frontiers 2? Challenging and creative platforming like updates 2 and especially 3. Arcade modes like update 1. Fully original level design and locations. Multiple playable characters like update 3. Improved controls with even more freedom of movement. Online multiplayer/races >How should the sequel improve upon the original game? Make the platforms and other objects actually feel like part of the environment >What shouldn’t be in the sequel? The awful pop in >What could be its vision and design philosophy? What we know about this game so far is that Kishimoto treated the Frontiers updates as a testing ground for "Frontiers 2", and that he considers "Frontiers 2" the be "the second game in the third generation", with the first generation being the 2D Classic-like games, and the second generation being Adventure AND boost. But the weird thing nobody talks about is that Kishimoto said "the third generation" isn't simply defined by the "Open Zone" concept, but that there is a "secret" that he hasn't talked about yet that makes Frontiers unique compared to all the previous games. I haven't seen any discussion on what the secret might be. My theory is that the secret is player customization. Frontiers is a box full of toys, and although there are some limitations in place, the goal of the game's design is to let players play however they want. This means, if you don't want to play the normal stages, you don't have to. If you don't want to fish, you don't have to. If you just want to run around randomly, you can just do that for the most part. After you complete the story you unlock the arcade modes and you can just play those instead of running around the Open Zone if that's what you prefer. Previous games force you to complete every objective to progress but in Frontiers you decide what you want to have fun with and that's that. The same design philosophy also applies to the physics sliders, to leaving the Homing Dash in the game for players to experiment with, and even to listening to fan feedback on Twitter for the updates. They saw we like mods and fangames, so they're trying to implement the mods and fangame experience into the actual games as well. People criticize this as the developers not doing their job, asking us to design the game for them, and to an extent I understand that, but I think these are supposed to be like toys for us to play and experiment with. I think it's supposed to be like Mario Maker but without the level editing part (for now?) where each part of the game is designed to work in a certain way and give players creative ways to interact with it. I think this is the direction Kishimoto wants to take his next game(s) in, not necessarily (just) Open Zone

>>26126 >I guess technically you get to run around a tiny section of Angel Island open world in Sonic Adventure. I have fantasized about this many times, long before Frontiers

>>26158 All the promotional material made it clear that SEGA considers Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations to be two separate games in the same style, and that Sonic x Shadow Generations is a collection/bundle that contains both. But I agree most people didn't understand that and just consider Shadow Generations "the Shadow DLC campaign", despite it being the heavily advertised part of the bundle

>>26320 (Me) I just realized I quoted the wrong part of the post >You can have that little section be the same in a new game, as a reference, but then expand upon it tremendously This is what I fantasized about

Hot take: naming it "Frontiers 2" would be stupid.

>>26324 I don't think anyone wants that name or thinks it's going to be called that. Kishimoto called it the second game in the third generation I take things further and say that the name "Adventure 2" was a mistake. They should have given it its own title. I think "Sonic Ultimate" could have worked well

>>26324 >>26325 Isn't it going to be called Sonic Explorers?

>>26326 Even if that "leak" was real (it isn't), it claimed that name was for a metroidvania spinoff where you play as Vanilla

>>26325 I think Adventure could get away with it because the word "Adventure" has more oomph to it than "Frontiers", but I get your point.

The only thing I want is Hyper Sonic to be officially canon.

>>26330 I don't get why it would be so hard?

>>26329 It already is >but Iizuka said It's in the game, so it's canon. What the games do and say and show is what matters, not some random interview/podcast/Twitter post/private message/other random nonsense. If it's in the actual content that we experience, it's canon, if it's outside of the content then it's just an idea that practically doesn't exist

>>26332 >It already is Then I want to see it return in a mainline Sonic game.

>>26333 Yeah that would be cool

>>26327 I know the leak is fake, but I thought they registered the "Explorers" trademark or something?

>>26327 >it claimed that name was for a metroidvania spinoff where you play as Vanilla Honestly, would play.

>>26338 They registered "Sonic Spin Battle" in October 2024 and "Sonic Blitz" in February 2025

>>26123 (OP) I'm mostly interested in how they improve the open zone, God knows they've got room for improvement there. The cyberspace equivalent is probably the next most important, having good stages, but I think they've got a really good formula to work with.

>>26347 Smaller maps that are densely packed would be a good change, and the open challenges could be little "mini stages", kind of like the Zelda stage in LW but on a grander scale

>>26349 I disagree, if anything I'd want them bigger and less dense. I'm biased though since the zones feel smaller when you have infinity boost and spindash unlocked. Sometimes I boot of frontiers just to run around the island and I like that there's plenty of room to avoid enemies and obstacles without breaking my pace. Shadow gens's white space felt too cramped to do that. Shadow doesn't level up his speed stat though. Sonic in Frontiers does, so the later islands at least ought to be pretty expansive to let you really zoom around.

>>26366 I'd agree if they can actually give each map an actual identity that isn't just "desert island" or "lava island"

>>26349 >>26366 I think a big open world map that features both dense and empty areas would be ideal. I also want Frontiers 2's open world to be designed with more intent and flow. Kinda like THPS levels which also feature terrain perfect for Sonic gameplay.

I really want to know how legit this will turn out to be, and if that anon talking about playtesting a new sonic where you "build" the levels yourself were real.

>>26422 I think it's the most believable-sounding leak so far. Now that doesn't necessarily mean it's real. There was also a random /sthg/ post that made me suspicious of it

>>26424 I felt like the towers with floating platforms and the dlc was a beta for this concept. They seemed "built" already, and unnatural.

>>26125 I wonder what they will prioritize. Sonicfags or normalfags?

>>26422 >thinks it was silently shitcanned because it hasn't been announced yet Is he retarded? Mario hasn't had a mainline 3D title announced in nearly a fucking decade.

>>26422 >cyberpunk-esque city …So just a regular Sonic city?

>>26332 >It's in the game, so it's canon. It's not necessarily in the canon events of the game. Not everything you can do in the game is necessarily what happened in the canon version. For example, the canon version of the story is clearly Sonic & Tails, followed by Knuckles. Sonic Alone and Tails Alone are obviously not the canon versions of that game. Likewise, there's nothing that indicates Hyper Sonic actually happened. In fact, if you get Hyper Sonic, you don't get the post-credits scene of Eggrobo surviving, which leads into Knuckles' story. That's a flimsy piece of evidence, I know, but it's some evidence that perhaps in the canon version, Sonic got all the Chaos Emeralds but not the Super Emeralds. I do strongly agree with your point that "word of god" does not override what is seen in the actual product, but in this particular case, I'm not sure the actual product shows what you think it shows. For another example, in Sonic CD, the Bad Future is seemingly canon, because in Sonic 4, Metal Sonic is rescued from Stardust Speedway's Bad Future. Is unlikely the people who made Sonic 4 even gave a shit? Yes. But it's in the game, so it is more canon than anything else. Also, all those endings of Shadow the Hedgehog where Shadow kills a main character, like Sonic or Eggman, obviously isn't canon. I don't see Hyper Sonic as being very different from that. Maybe Sonic could become Hyper but has never actually done it in canon.

>>26123 (OP) >What do we want to see in Sonic Frontiers 2? I want to see an Open World (or Zone or whatever) with actually decently Sonic-looking asthetics and all original level themes. The world needs to feel more alive as well, NPCs are nice, but the environment should change as the story progresses. The game needs to have spectacle as well. Forces tried having spectacle and failed, Frontiers sort of tried it with the Titan fights, but I really want some sort of big setpiece on par with Terminal Velocity or the Orca Chase from Emerald Coast. I would like to see the levels integrated into the world itself, but I wouldn't be outraged at more cyberspace style stages. >How should the sequel improve upon the original game? The rails need to be more integrated into the environment, the terrain itself needs to be less flat, Sonic needs a better moveset, the puzzles and challenges need to be more challenging. >What shouldn’t be in the sequel? No Pinball minigame, no shmup final boss, less pop-in. Make the open world platforming less automated. A couple of the minibosses were also kind of bullshit and would interrupt your flow if you got too close to them. >What could be its vision and design philosophy? Frontiers was carried hard by the open world gameplay loop of going through the floating platforms and collecting tokens (while having enough important challenges and cyberspace levels to keep things from becoming monotonous). Frontiers 2 needs to evolve and interate upon that gameplay loop to be successful.

>>26691 I'm inclined to say they'll try to appease normalfags since almost every time in the past that Kishimoto's been given the choice between normalfags and Sonicfags, he's always pandered to normalfags. >After Secrets Rings' success, he doubled down on the motion controls normalfags had fawned over with Black Knight instead of making a normal Sonic platformer. >Kishimoto based Lost World's sky dildos and lack of a boost off of normalfag playtesters' complaints of falling off the level too often in boost games >Kishimoto said Frontiers' cyberspace stages were put in to avoid alienating traditional Sonic fans (implying that they weren't Frontiers' target demographic) The only times he pandered to Sonicfags was with Forces and Frontiers' DLC and given how Sonicfags received those he's not likely to do it to the same extent again.

>>26778 Oh, I agree with all of that. Hyper Sonic may not have happened in the actual timeline, but it's a possibility in the game, so it exists nonetheless, it's something Sonic can do

>>26798 I'm still mad that Sonic fans on Twitter had a negative reaction to the towers in The Final Horizon. Finally we get some challenging platforming again and they complain about it

>>26927 Why is it such a recurring problem with sonic "fans" desu >Bitching about how the games are too easy "hold right/boost to win" >They get an actual challenging stage/game >They bitch about how it's bullshit and they can't just hold right/boost to win anymore

>>26932 I haven't reached Eggmanland yet (I'm playing Unleashed for the first time), but everything I hear about it makes it sound fun

>>27125 Having played it for the first time not too long ago either, i can confirm it's very fun desu. It's very tough but it's pretty doable, only gets kinda bullshit in the final room with the 2 titans. Otherwise it's really just a test of everything the game has been teaching you up to that point.

>>26932 Because the fans that complain only engage with the franchise for clout. These "fans" played a few hours of Frontiers and then formed opinions on what they like based on what they heard Youtubers (who completed the game) say about it and then repeated and amplified these opinions into Kishimoto's Twitter. When the DLC finally came, these "fans" downloaded completed save files and entered the DLC to play it for the clout only to get raped by Cyberspace 4-B, the First Tower and Knuckles' weird controls. Since these fans have very high opinions of themselves, they immediately conclude that it isn't a skill issue, but instead that Sonic Team was wrong. These negative reactions were further amplified by more twitter "fans" who had never even played the game. At the time when it came out, it was hilarious to see how all the negativity of peoples reactions to it was directly proportional to their skill level/desire for challenge.

>>27211 Yeah, that makes sense, I can believe that >they immediately conclude that it isn't a skill issue, but instead that Sonic Team was wrong. And this sounds familiar. It's just like certain video game reviewers...

>>27211 I still remember that one interaction in /sthg/ >Bitching about how sonic never shuts up and kept going "heh reference" >I mention how when i was playing he never said anything >Get a reply saying that sonic will only ever quip if you idle, and it counts as idling if you don't get anything done for minutes at a time. Kinda opened my eyes to how shit people are at sonic desu.

I wonder how they will approach wall running because it was really janky in Frontiers. It always made you run down cliffs instead of launching you forward like in normal video games. I think that happens because the collision on these cliffs is sloped enough that Sonic can keep himself grounded and transition into a wall run. Another issue is that the cliff faces are way too jagged. It makes wall running feel really unpolished. Maybe that could be solved with a more stylized environment that features sharp edges and smooth walls?

>>27625 Depends if they're going back to realistic environments or cartoony

>>27625 Fuck, why couldn’t the world have actually looked like a Sonic location in Frontiers?

>>27648 Stylized environments don't have to be cartoony in order to be stylized. They just don't have to be fully accurate to real life. You can have smooth walls and sharp edges in an non-cartoony game as that's still stylization.

>>26124 I'd love that and multiple characters to play with besides Sonic.

>>27625 > a more stylized environment that features sharp edges and smooth walls? A city is perfect for this, just think Spiderman with the wallrunning. I just don't want another empty field.

>>27739 It was well received with Frontiers so I expect the next game to have more of that >>27743 Same. I want a new city, and I also want the typical creative environments of previous Sonic games

Which real life city would you like Sonic Team to use as inspiration for the next Sonic game?

>>27748 Tokyo. It looked good in Shadow Gens and it would make the game more appealing to nips.

>>27750 I'm surprised it took them so long to use Tokyo. They needed American involvement for it to happen for some reason, it's weird. I guess a lot of people hated Japan in America in the 2000s but if they did they probably also hated Adventure/2000s style/Japanese Sonic and if they wanted to appeal to Japan as well they could have done it

Since they've just done Tokyo with the movie DLC, maybe they could base it on another Japanese city. Kyoto would be a good one. I think Sapporo could also work if they want something more modern looking

Tokyo looked great but was held back by being a notably automated and 'cutscene' heavy Boost stage. Give me an actual stylised Shibuya to run and jump around in and we could be eating good.

>>26123 (OP) I just want it to play like Shadow Generations does , and I want some new Sonic transformations. Super sonic 2 was pretty kino and honestly would be cool to see him go straight to this everytime he transforms from now on.

>>28048 >I just want it to play like Shadow Generations does In what way exactly?

>>28065 Shadow just handled really well and the movement feels like it flows with the level design, responsive controls without alot of the Jank frontiers seems to have. It also has a far superior feeling of momentum.

>>28069 Interesting, I heard this a lot but I haven't played the game yet so it's kinda hard to imagine

>>28070 Play it, its fucking great

>>27625 >sharp edges and smooth walls It's funny how they knew that already in games like 06 but then they unlearned it with Frontiers

>>27756 >I guess a lot of people hated Japan in America in the 2000s You must be very young. If anything Japan was much more popular in America in the 2000s. It was the height of weebdom. Anime was much more mainstream. 4kids might have tried to censor japanese text and stuff, but kids were watching the shows specifically because they were Japanese.

>>28069 Shadow Gens' controls are good but I still wouldn't call them great like a lot of people claim. It feels really slow to me, especially in the 2D levels which has been a problem they've had since Lost World and still haven't fixed. Just let me go as fast as I did in Sonic Rush already if you're going to insist on continuing making 2D sections in these games.

>>28473 >making Sonic Rush your baseline for 2D Sonic instead of one of the Genesis games.

>>28492 Comparing it to Rush because they both have the boost.

>>28444 Well then correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression this was more so the case with specific communities early/mid 2000s communities, mostly filled with teenagers or at most young adults who liked anime/manga, while most older Americans hated Japan and Japanese media, and the "height of weebdom" was more like a controversial sub-community that was at first hated by almost everyone and otherwise only looked cool to younger kids, and so grew in popularity as they got older in the late 2000s/early 2010s. That's how I've come to understand it at least

>>26927 >>26932 >Sonic Team made an update based solely on Fan Feedback >The fans hated it Do you think Kishimoto even knows what made people like Frontiers in the first place given these interactions?

>>28593 I loved it at least, major technical issues aside, I don't understand those Twitter people

>>28593 Imo the only good part of update 3 was its level design. The new playable characters were alright but they also suffered from being really janky and OP. Everything else just wasn't very good.

>>27677 They wanted to appeal to normalfags and nips with the realistic art style

>>27677 >>28869 Several Sonic games from long before Frontiers look like that though

>>28946 They still had more stylization in their environments. With Frontiers, Sonic Team was aiming to create photorealistic scenery.

>>28946 How many of those games are praised for their art style?

>>26123 (OP) I wonder if Kishimoto will finally embrace pinball physics with Frontiers 2

>>29178 Do we know what physics mods for Frontiers Kishimoto looked at?

>>29195 https://x.com/FreezyReef/status/1637367419382665216 https://x.com/Proto_arts/status/1876045023780966846 https://x.com/Proto_arts/status/1875193122617258189

>>29178 I love playing with these kinds of physics mods in Frontiers for like 20 minutes and then I get bored because the world isn't designed around them at all.

>>29392 That's why so many want pinball physics in Frontiers 2. That way the open world and the stages would be designed around those physics.

>>29395 Yeah, a Sonic game that plays like my modded Frontiers but with an actual world designed with them in mind and focused on slopes and momentum would be pretty close to my ideal game. The idea of having more traditional stages as gates in the overworld is already a brilliant idea too so you don't lose that side of Sonic's appeal either. Just don't copy paste levels from past games again.

>>29415 I agree. >Just don't copy paste levels from past games again. It's funny that Colors copypasted stages too, but also had just as many (actually more) original stages, and the copypasted ones were done carefully to fit with its gameplay where it's more like a little reference. Frontiers basically used the same idea but didn't do it as well as Colors

After the release of Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Team split into two teams. The first team was smaller, led by Morio Kishimoto, and handled Frontiers' updates and the pre-production of Frontiers 2. The second team was much larger and focused on developing Sonic x Shadow Generations. Once Sonic x Shadow Generations was completed, the second team rejoined the first to move Frontiers 2 into full production. This is why Shadow Generations didn’t receive any DLC aside from the Movie one. Sega probably wants to release Sonic Frontiers 2 alongside their Power Surge reboot games we saw at https://youtu.be/0VHYLJR9pNg?si=67h4RF3sidd2wW0x Shinobi: Art of Vengeance was the first of these Power Surge titles to get a release date which is August 29, 2025. I hope that means we won't have to wait long for Frontiers 2.

>>27625 Even the CG trailer has sharper cliffs than Frontiers lol

>>29567 Shinobi was the furthest along in development of any of the games shown in that trailer while most of the other stuff was still in very early development. I guess Sega technically has until June 23 to announce a new mainline Sonic Title for release this year (they announced Superstars in mid-June), but I get the feeling that Frontiers 2 won't be out until 2026.

I kinda liked the combat in frontiers, they just have to remove the camera jank that they're trying to emulate from soulless gacha garbage that zooms camera in and out for "dynamic" effect, make parry actually parry and punish you for missing it You know, something unleashed did with the werehog 16 years ago

>>30008 They did that with the bosses in update 3 but unfortunately the animations weren't designed around it so it's communicated poorly in most instances. Giganto and Knight are okay, but Wyvern's attacks are complete garbage, especially the second attack

>>30008 >>30020 Frontiers' combat is not Sonic-like enough because most of your moves kill your speed. Why does Sonic have a parry anyway? He should be dodging things instead. He should be using his speed to his advantage.

>>30065 I don't think it's necessarily a problem that the combat stops you (although I dislike the forced combat of the mid 2000s because it's forced and that gets boring). The Cyloop is a cool idea that fits what you're saying though

>>30142 >I don't think it's necessarily a problem that the combat stops you It breaks your flow hard and it also makes the combat less satisfying. >The Cyloop is a cool idea that fits what you're saying though True. It's the best move from Frontiers. I wish Sonic's entire moveset followed Cyloop's design.

I typed up a big rant about why I don't like frontiers before on a different site but I don't want to type a brick wall again like I tend to do, my gripes with it are basically >Combat sucks ass, its just button mashing and some enemies completely stop you in your tracks just to waste time, and there's hardly any reward for doing combat aside from the same shit you can get from running in a circle. Werehog was so much better >Environments are bland and boring and the boost has been completely flanderized to the point of just being a run button, one you also need to charge up now by running in circles to get max rings >Puzzles are the most uninspired shit ever >Cyberspace feels horrendous to control, nothing like the old boost stages from gens and unleashed. >I'm not one to care for sonic lore but the story might just be the worst sonic story from any game, worse than 06 bc 06 at least had cool vibes, broken as it was. Genuinely horrendous writing. I liked the cyloop and most of the platform challenges but that was mostly it. It sucks because I was really excited for this game, then when it came out, I couldn't even finish it. To this day I haven't gone back to try and finish it. I'm glad it did well but goddamn I really hope they change shit up for the sequel

>>30065 Parrying is fine imo, just not the way Frontiers handled it. It should be a button press and you should be able to do it mid combo. The way it worked on that game is more like a block than an actual parry. The question is how should it work, like sekiro or MGR where you simply press attack towards the enemy.

>>30407 >Parrying is fine imo I just don't think it fits Sonic very well. His combat style should be centered around movement and flow and parries disincentive that unlike dodges for example. >The question is how should it work, like sekiro or MGR where you simply press attack towards the enemy. MGR has the better parry mechanic because it has actual risk/reward thanks to its input. In Sekiro you can press the block button early and then hold it. That way you get a parry if you time it right and if you don't then you just block the attack instead of getting hit. It's basically an option select that heavily mitigates risk from parrying.

All I'm getting is that combat doesn't fit Sonic at all, which is fair Which means all combat gameplay that involve Sonic is garbage, including adventure games that forces you to stop and kill shit

>>30379 Frontier 2 level is design is fucking cooked because very faggot that said frontiers was easy complained when they dropped updated 3. Please let me be wrong.

The one big wild card for Frontiers 2 is what normalfags want from it. We have no idea what the millions of normalfags who bought Frontiers enjoyed and hated about the game. Kishimoto, thanks to how extensively he playtests games, probably already knows what the average non-fan wants from Frontiers 2 and we're going to be completely blindsided by it when the game and whatever it does to pander to normalfags are revealed.

>>30515 Let's do the reverse, what do YOU fags want from Frontiers 2? Type a wall if you have to

>>30526 metroidvania where you play as Vanilla

>>30515 That's an interesting point >>30526 Content just like the 3 Frontiers updates, but actually polished. Good looking, completely new, original environments. Improvements to the Frontiers controls and moveset. More memorable "open zones"/hubs, with game design more like Unleashed. NPCs, preferably humans in the style of Shadow Generations. No 2D sections. Challenging platforming. Multiple playable characters. Arcade modes. Time attack replays and online multiplayer. Jun Senoue as the sound director and lead music composer. In-character dialogue, nice character moments and interactions, and cool memorable action scenes (preferably primarily integrated into the stages). A new playable character, maybe a male one since we've been getting plenty of girls recently.

>>30526 See Update 3 and shadow gen's 3d stages? THAT except tone the 2D down, also more on Frontier Update 3 because that really punishes you for not knowing your controls Time trials? Make them as gruelling(for beginners) as cyber 1-2 Also INCREASE THE SPEED BABYYYYYY Combat? Yeah whatever sure, maybe make it snappier and stop the camera bullshit

>>26125 ShadGen was a packed-in game, Frontiers is a whole standalone release. Hardly a fair comparison. Shadow should get an actual standalone game eventually.

>>26927 To be fair, it's SEGA fault for leaving the difficulty on hard for anyone entering in TFH. Because the boss rush is pure ass.

>>30441 >including adventure games that forces you to stop and kill shit That's not the Adventure games, that's Heroes, 2006, Rush, Unleashed, and one stage in Colors.

>the japanese market they should really accept that the jap market is secondary since that's mario land over there literally the west modding scene kept this little blue shit alive when their homeland couldn't give a singular fuck about it until recently but hey, xenophobia and nationality i guess

>>30618 To be fair to Sega, they required you complete 80% of the game to access the DLC and you'd get a message advising you to complete the base game before going into the Final Horizon when you first entered the portal. It doesn't excuse the boss rush, but they at least tried to make sure players had to be fairly competent to enter the DLC.

>>30526 > what do YOU fags want from Frontiers 2? >Open zone A return to more cartoony aesthetic, i want the open zones to look more like what adventure/unleashed did but as playable areas instead of just hubs, i don't care if they are smaller overall, i just need them to feel like levels on their own, the islands were a good concept and they should expand on it. >Cyberspace Make the levels fully original, you could even base them off the zone they are in, doing it like shadow gens where it's 2 levels, one fully 3d and one 2d could even work, just stop recycling old shit or at least have them as bonus stages instead of being most of it. >Combat More combos, more moves, and focus more on actually coming closer to a real spectacle fighter, it really would benefit if they added rankings too depending on how well you do, just encourage you to do more than button mash desu. >Missions More platforming challenges and races against the clock, less 1 button minigames desu The bosses are the only thing that can stay the same, i'd argue the titans might just be the best bossfights in sonic simply because of spectacle alone, it's really all we need.

Keep Homing Boost/Dash, funniest funnest shit Sonic had, it's like air boost but perfected Thanks

>>30443 >Playtesters had trouble with the boost in Colors >Kishimoto removes it entirely for Lost World >Playtesters have trouble with timing the parry in Frontiers' betas >Kishimoto removes all timing and breaks the parry, allowing Sonic to hover in mid air indefinitely >Playtesters have trouble with Frontiers' puzzles >Kishimoto makes them all piss easy so nobody will complain Given the how many people were bitching at Kishimoto over the Final Horizon's difficulty, Frontiers 2 will probably be the easiest Sonic game ever made.

>>30964 Oh yeah, I like the Homing Dash too

>>30974 Or give us a proper difficulty option so we can choose

>>30526 All the shits anon said above But keep the composers Keep the bangers

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt32575595/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_3_unrel_t_1 Frontiers 2 already has an IMDB listing, not that that means anything.

shouldn't they just remove boost if modern is going to get drop dash? they serve the same purpose anyway but boost also works on air, so why even give modern drop dash in the first place I don't get it

>>31655 The drop dash was well received in Mania, so they put it in Frontiers. That's the entirety of their thought process, they didn't really think of it from a gameplay perspective. The same things happened with the Wisps and Classic Sonic. Drop Dash is better than the boost when going uphill and over rough terrain, but it's just happenstance that it works like that.

>>31655 >>31895 also going back to frontiers, wallrun is so weird, shouldn't the right trigger/R2(boost button) movement be the default movement for sonic while holding down said button should let you boost despite being vertical since sonic literally does that in ever media that isn't video game and even if they did make it move like that, it'd be still kinda ass, they fixed it though, in Shadow Generations that is. doom morph is exactly how sonic should move on vertical surfaces except you could boost really hope they do that in frontiers 2

>>32437 Given they apparently have two separate development teams, idk if they will take much from one game to the other. But we'll see

It's still surprising that The Final Horizon had no 2D, especially because Shadow Generations does. I wonder how it will be for Frontiers 2.

>>32602 My hope is that the only 2D segments in Frontiers 2 are either restricted to areas of the open world where they can't accidentally be entered or tucked away in that game's equivalent of Cyberspace. Though I'd prefer they not include them in the first place, especially given how badly Sonic controlled in 2D in Frontiers.

>>32787 I like the 2D in Colors and even Forces (except Classic). Which is most of those games. They should just make separate Modern 2D games. You know like they used to.

>>32791 >They should just make separate Modern 2D games. Sonic Team's still traumatized from a decade and half of Classicfags bitching at them.

I think Kishimoto sees the Drift as a gimmick rather than a core game mechanic like in Unleashed and Generations. His games only use it in specific sections, or even just a single stage in the case of Frontiers. And they just kinda alter your control scheme instead of being part of the actual movement. People used to say this was because of the Wii's limited amount of buttons and maybe it was true, but he kept doing that for all his other games. But he also tried to implement drifting in the Super Sonic fights in Frontiers at some point, which confuses me.

>>33238 I think the drift in the Supers Sonic fights was meant to be available in the open world as well, but Kishimoto felt it was unnecessary with Sonic's tighter turning radius.

>>33257 Oh wait, I misremembered, they did leave the Drift in the Super Sonic fights. But it's completely pointless and the game doesn't tell you about it. Did they just forget to take it out? So anyway you're probably right, it doesn't make sense in the boss fights regardless

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Drift >A leaked beta of the Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 version of Sonic Unleashed that is dated to be close to the game's release showed that the decision to drift using the controller's triggers was made very late into the game's development - nearly one month before release. The drift itself was still present in these builds, but could only be executed using B So that's why the game tells me to press B to drift even though that's not how it works. They forgot to change it

>>33260 >Did they just forget to take it out? Knowing Sonic Team, that's the most likely explanation.

>>33238 The thing about the drift is that it's completely unnecessary if Sonic's turning is tight enough and easy to control.

>>33313 Are drift mechanics worth the more limited controls? I think they're two different gameplay styles with their own appeal. But even then Generations made the drift easier, so I guess most people aren't fond of Unleashed's harder drift mechanics.

What is Sonic telling Kishimoto that he wants for Frontiers 2?

>>34070 human women

>>34071 What is Tori's deal?

>>32439 >separate teams >team b, the back up, made a better sonic game(shadow generations) than team a, the main(frontiers) that's grim isn't it?

>>32439 Has anyone gone through the credits of Shadow Gens to see how much overlap there is between the two teams? Regardless, it will be interesting to see how closely the A and B Teams stay too each other's styles given that Nakamura is "the boost to win guy" while Kishimoto would supposedly prefer to make Sonic slower. Shadow Gens and Frontiers 2 are both built off of Frontiers, so there are a lot of similarities now, but there's a good chance that Frontiers 3 will be built off of Frontiers 2 while whatever B Team makes will build on Shadow Gens so you'll gradually start to see the two Teams' games take on different styles as time goes on.

>>34308 Kishimoto definitely prefers more traditional platforming than the Unleashed style. He said a bunch of times that he likes Super Mario Bros 3 and that it's one of his main inspirations

>>34308 Kishimoto literally should just make platform levels he wants while keeping the shadgen movement while keeping shit from frontiers 1 like sonic's tighter turning radius and magnet dash People who can't handle fast action platforming will still do the slow platforming he loves while sonic fans, aka autists, will speed run the fuck out of it with nakamura's boost speed shitck

I wonder if the 2nd team has all the old animators from previous games before frontiers The in-game scenes in SSxG were infinitely better than Frontiers, especially the camera work

>>34321 Might just be a learning curve sort of thing, Frontiers was the first game without Marza doing the cutscenes for them so Sonic Team had to do them themselves and now they've had enough practice making their own cutscenes to actually make stuff that looks decent.

>>34321 >>34323 I just assumed it was the new people they supposedly hired after the success of Frontiers

>>34324 Could be that too

>>34310 >He said a bunch of times that he likes Super Mario Bros 3 and that it's one of his main inspirations No wonder why Colors, Lost World and Forces all had level select screens that looked like the one from SMB3. I think he even mentioned that Frontiers's Open World started out as a level select area as well (which is part of why it was so empty so late into development).

>>26124 this isn't gonna happen if the focus remains fixed on getting dopamine hits whenever you press the boosty button while running in a straight line at least frontiers added more variety to the formula

If Frontiers 2 has to be an asset flip of another Sega game, which game should that be?

>>35222 I don't even know why people have been saying Frontiers is an asset flip of PSO2. It's just a generic grassy field, it's not literally the same assets

>>35223 They had a lot of the same artists working on both games.